Castillo may be a Cub

[Chisoxfn]

Luis Castillo may not be a Marlin as the Cubs are offering an option of a 4th year, just like the Marlins. The Marlins package is worth an estimated 21.5 mill over 4 years (4th year is an option...its 15.5 mill over 3 years). Why the hell are we paying Jose 5 mill a year when we could get Castillo at that.

[Cali]

Luis Castillo may not be a Marlin as the Cubs are offering an option of a 4th year, just like the Marlins.  The Marlins package is worth an estimated 21.5 mill over 4 years (4th year is an option...its 15.5 mill over 3 years).  Why the hell are we paying Jose 5 mill a year when we could get Castillo at that.

Jose just has to be traded, that's the only reason that they picked up the option. I'm really hoping that the Sexon to the D-backs deal goes down tomorrow, and then the Dodgers immediately bite on a Konerko/Valentin for Perez/Izturis deal with Sexon already gone.

[whitesox61382]

I don't understand why the Sox aren't players in the Castillo race, especially since it appears that he will get less then what most expected(I was predicting that he would get 7M+/yr). It sounds like 4 years guaranteed for about 22M would be enough to get him. He would address the Sox need at 2B, give them the leadoff hitter that they desperately need, give them a GG middle infielder, and give them a young option to play there for years to come(with little help in the upper minors for the Sox). At this point I have no clue which direction this organization is heading and have given up the use of logic to attempt to accurately predict what is going to happen, because it appears that it is a crapshot at this point. I just hope for the best.

[Wise Master Buehrle]

Aha! Now I understand the Cubs. It's pathetic, so damn pathetic.

 

You see, the Cubs got beat by the Marlins, what do you think the Cubs are trying to do? BUY THE MARLINS. Look at it, first Lee, now MAYBE Castillo. This isn't right, form your own god damn team.

 

I hope they choke and die next year with all these hopeful moves, and I also hope they destroyed that nucleus of whatever that got them to the NLCS.

 

Can anyone say, WANNABE YANKEES?

 

And sheesh, I thought the Yankees would be first in line for Florida players. Sad.

[Chisoxfn]

Get Castillo at 2nd and the Sox can go with someone like Itzuris like Cali mentioned.

 

And Cali I too am hoping and wishing that the Konerko/Jose for Itzuris/Perez deal goes down, even if the Sox have to give up a prospect (no stud, but someone decent). Then use Jose's money on Castillo and you now have a young, talented defensive infield and one really talented offensive player as well as your catalyst at the top of the lineup and Itzuris will develop into a solid 2 hitter (Although I wouldn't put him there yet). I'm guessing the Sox picking up part of Konerko's salary and what Perez ends up making, they may free up a mill extra (They will have to pay at least 2 or 3 mill of Konerko's contract this year).

 

This deal doesn't necessarily give them a ton of relief, but it allows them to add talented players in "need" positions. Now they can go out and move Maggs or Lee for a few more good younger/cheaper players and some potential guys and spread that money to Colon, some relievers and a few vets that stick around.

 

They could do all this relatively cheaply and it would allow them to not have to make a major splash. If Konerko gets dealt, I'd look for one more big trade to follow and the Sox will then slow things out and work slowly at adjusting payroll some more and then making some late signings.

 

Koch/Konerko/Maggs and possibly Lee will all be gone this year, mark my words on that.

 

I feel Colon will be back and the Sox will have a brand new middle infield. Plus you still have Thomas who still can help power an offens. Put decent guys around and this could be a good team. Maybe not an explosive offense but a solid one with amazing pitching.

[Cali]

Maybe not an explosive offense but a solid one with amazing pitching.

Could You Imagine a Pitching Rotation consisting of something like:

 

Mark Buehrle

Bartolo Colon

Esteban Loaiza

Odalis Perez

Kurt Ainsworth/Jon Garland

 

That with an assumed Maggs to Baltimore deal.

 

Only a couple of more weeks until the major movement starts a coming December 7th and then the Winter Meetings

[Chisoxfn]

Yep...should be really interesting. The problem is all that s*** basically happens during my finals..just what I need, distractions.

[Pastime]

I just hope something happens soon. This quiet "lull" going on this offseason is not only frustrating, but painful as well.

 

Chisoxfn,

 

Good luck on your finals. I'm not looking forward to mine, but I'll just study, suck it up, and hopefully come out of it smelling like a rose. I hope you do too.

 

[SoxFan562004]

I think the Cubs are going to have to do more than simply match the Marlins offer. If they truly want Castillo they are going to have to offer more than the Marlins are offering because he's probably comfortable with the team, he's already won a world series there, and the Marlins have showed signs of spending money to keep players, ie Lowell and Castillo himself.

[southsider2k5]

I don't understand why the Sox aren't players in the Castillo race, especially since it appears that he will get less then what most expected(I was predicting that he would get 7M+/yr). It sounds like 4 years guaranteed for about 22M would be enough to get him. He would address the Sox need at 2B, give them the leadoff hitter that they desperately need, give them a GG middle infielder, and give them a young option to play there for years to come(with little help in the upper minors for the Sox). At this point I have no clue which direction this organization is heading and have given up the use of logic to attempt to accurately predict what is going to happen, because it appears that it is a crapshot at this point. I just hope for the best.

You just went on and on about how we wouldn't be spending any money even if we traded Maggs, but then you ask why we aren't going to spend $22 mil on a 2nd baseman, doesn't one answer the other???

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

The Marlins package is worth an estimated 21.5 mill over 4 years (4th year is an option...its 15.5 mill over 3 years).  Why the hell are we paying Jose 5 mill a year when we could get Castillo at that.

Because the White Sox don't look at it like that. They look at Valentin for $5 million total, and Castillo as $22 million total. They don't like $22 million total. Too spendy.

[Rex Hudler]

I don't understand why the Sox aren't players in the Castillo race, especially since it appears that he will get less then what most expected(I was predicting that he would get 7M+/yr). It sounds like 4 years guaranteed for about 22M would be enough to get him. He would address the Sox need at 2B, give them the leadoff hitter that they desperately need, give them a GG middle infielder, and give them a young option to play there for years to come(with little help in the upper minors for the Sox). At this point I have no clue which direction this organization is heading and have given up the use of logic to attempt to accurately predict what is going to happen, because it appears that it is a crapshot at this point. I just hope for the best.

With what money would the Sox use to get Castillo? They are trying to get rid of some payroll, not take on another $5+ million/year.

[BrandoFan]

Luis Castillo may not be a Marlin as the Cubs are offering an option of a 4th year, just like the Marlins. The Marlins package is worth an estimated 21.5 mill over 4 years (4th year is an option...its 15.5 mill over 3 years).

 

WTF?!

 

What happened to the 7-8 Mill figure everybody is throwing around? I rightfully argued he is NOT worth that...... but only 5-some Mill? Common, that's LESS than what washed-up Grudzelanek was making in 2003.

 

This is depressing. We're in this mess because we chocked away a pathetic division and because we can't draw fans. I saw this s*** back in May. Let the Grinder Era begin.

[whitesox61382]

"You just went on and on about how we wouldn't be spending any money even if we traded Maggs, but then you ask why we aren't going to spend $22 mil on a 2nd baseman, doesn't one answer the other???"

 

It depends on how much money the Sox save in trading Maggs. I have a feeling that they will have to take some guys with big contracts in return(ala Garcia or Percivil for example) as part of a deal. If this is the case, than the minimal amount of money that is saved with go to the big contracts the Sox already have. However, it is possible that 1 of 2 things(or both) COULD happen:

 

1) The Sox only take on a minimal amount of payroll in a Maggs trade. For example, if they save 10-12M, than they could use some of that to sign a player like a Castillo and use the rest to address the other big salaries. This is not likely, but certainly a possibility

 

and/or

 

2) The Sox are able to trade away Lee, Koch, and/or Konerko and save some money. The savings won't be drastic since the Sox will either have to pay some of their contract or take on a big salary in return(in all likelyhood), but I think they could find a way to save at least 5M by trading 1 or all of those guys. That money can then be spent on Castillo(assuming that Maggs is traded as well).

 

Furthermore, if the Sox traded Maggs and no one else, that would leave them with a payroll in the 50-55M range when you factor in the likely amount that players will get through arbitration and attempt to estimate the salaries in return for Maggs. There would still have major holes at CF/RF, 2B, SP, and RP(some of the holes might be filled by the players received in a Maggs trade). For example, I think a trade of Maggs for Gibson, Johnson, and something else is a possibility(I don't necassarily like it, but it would work for both teams). In this example the Sox would fill their CF/RF hole, their SP hole, and have about 5M to spend to fill either/both the 2B or/and RP holes(assuming they have a payroll around 60M). So that 5M could be spent on Castillo. This senerio isn't likely, but certainly possible, and shows how the Sox could afford Castillo even though the majority of money saved in the Maggs trade would go to current Sox salaries.

 

My point is that it is nearly impossible to accurately predict what is going to happen, which direction this organization is heading, and/or how the market/salaries will break down. I am simply throwing out a couple of different senerios that could change in the matter of hours because of the volitality of the offseason, so please take it with a grain of salt.

 

ps. Southsider, are you still mad at me for proving your Ponson theory wrong? Don't let your hate affect your judgement.

 

"With what money would the Sox use to get Castillo? They are trying to get rid of some payroll, not take on another $5+ million/year."

 

Here is a new concept that you haven't heard of or you wouldn't have made the above comment; they get rid of enough salary so they can actually spend some money to address major holes. Has that thought ever crept through your mind? I guess not, but it is certainly a possibility and appears that it could be likely. For example, if Colon were to accept the Sox offer, than the Sox would have to deal some big salaries to compensate(something Sox management had to take into consideration in the possibility that Colon accepted the Sox offer). This is a perfect example of the Sox getting rid of salary so they can spend money to address other major holes. Anything else that you want me to breakdown for you Rex? You can also see the above senerios that a laid out for southsider as another example.

[southsider2k5]

"You just went on and on about how we wouldn't be spending any money even if we traded Maggs, but then you ask why we aren't going to spend $22 mil on a 2nd baseman, doesn't one answer the other???"

 

It depends on how much money the Sox save in trading Maggs. I have a feeling that they will have to take some guys with big contracts in return(ala Garcia or Percivil for example) as part of a deal. If this is the case, than the minimal amount of money that is saved with go to the big contracts the Sox already have. However, it is possible that 1 of 2 things(or both) COULD happen:

 

1) The Sox only take on a minimal amount of payroll in a Maggs trade. For example, if they save 10-12M, than they could use some of that to sign a player like a Castillo and use the rest to address the other big salaries. This is not likely, but certainly a possibility

 

and/or

 

2) The Sox are able to trade away Lee, Koch, and/or Konerko and save some money. The savings won't be drastic since the Sox will either have to pay some of their contract or take on a big salary in return(in all likelyhood), but I think they could find a way to save at least 5M by trading 1 or all of those guys. That money can then be spent on Castillo(assuming that Maggs is traded as well).

 

Furthermore, if the Sox traded Maggs and no one else, that would leave them with a payroll in the 50-55M range when you factor in the likely amount that players will get through arbitration and attempt to estimate the salaries in return for Maggs. There would still have major holes at CF/RF, 2B, SP, and RP(some of the holes might be filled by the players received in a Maggs trade). For example, I think a trade of Maggs for Gibson, Johnson, and something else is a possibility(I don't necassarily like it, but it would work for both teams). In this example the Sox would fill their CF/RF hole, their SP hole, and have about 5M to spend to fill either/both the 2B or/and RP holes(assuming they have a payroll around 60M). So that 5M could be spent on Castillo. This senerio isn't likely, but certainly possible, and shows how the Sox could afford Castillo even though the majority of money saved in the Maggs trade would go to current Sox salaries.

 

My point is that it is nearly impossible to accurately predict what is going to happen, which direction this organization is heading, and/or how the market/salaries will break down. I am simply throwing out a couple of different senerios that could change in the matter of hours because of the volitality of the offseason, so please take it with a grain of salt.

 

ps. Southsider, are you still mad at me for proving your Ponson theory wrong? Don't let your hate affect your judgement.

 

"With what money would the Sox use to get Castillo? They are trying to get rid of some payroll, not take on another $5+ million/year."

 

Here is a new concept that you haven't heard of or you wouldn't have made the above comment; they get rid of enough salary so they can actually spend some money to address major holes. Has that thought ever crept through your mind? I guess not, but it is certainly a possibility and appears that it could be likely. For example, if Colon were to accept the Sox offer, than the Sox would have to deal some big salaries to compensate(something Sox management had to take into consideration in the possibility that Colon accepted the Sox offer). This is a perfect example of the Sox getting rid of salary so they can spend money to address other major holes. Anything else that you want me to breakdown for you Rex? You can also see the above senerios that a laid out for southsider as another example.

Some of your own words...

 

You guys have to realize that the money saved by trading Maggs isn't going to be spent. The Sox have some big salaries on the books for next year and they need to get rid of 1 or 2 of them to free up money to pay the rest. Unless JR decides to come out of LF and spend 65+M, the money saved in a trade that involves Maggs will go to players like Konerko, Koch, Thomas, Valentin, ect. in an attempt to maintain a payroll under 60M. You are really looking at things with your rosy glasses if you think the money saved by trading Maggs will be used to sign a big name FA, yet alone a starting pitcher, a reliever, an outfielder like Cameron, AND a MI like Tejada or Castillo.

 

I am not here to make friends. I like to spark arguements, and sometimes I do it by not being polite. If that bothers you, than you need some thicker skin.

 

Hmm, gee I wonder who is looking to start more arguements? The instant I ask you why you flip flopped you made it personal. Really that is just sad. it is painfully obvious by your own words that you will just say whatever just looking for a fight. That might be fun for ESPN with the rest of the trolls, but it doesn't fly here as mature posting.

[Rex Hudler]

Here is a new concept that you haven't heard of or you wouldn't have made the above comment; they get rid of enough salary so they can actually spend some money to address major holes. Has that thought ever crept through your mind?

 

Catch is, oh smart one, that they haven't dealt anyone so there is no money freed up right now. If Castillo is still available in January, then your scenario is possible. But in all likelihood Castillo will sign with someone before that will happen.

 

KW is not going to go out and sign players now in hopes of trading someone to free salary later. What would happen if he couldn't move Maggs after making a deal like this? Would he be forced to trade Maggs and take on a crappy contract in return since teams would know he HAS to get rid of him? That wouldn't help. Would KW look smart if he in essence gave Maggs away getting next to nothing in return for the same reason?

 

The bottom line is, until salary is freed up, there is no money to sign Castillo or anyone else with any halfway decent sized contract. And even then, I am not convinced that KW would commit to him (or any player) for 4 year.

 

Hope you can understand my original concept of you can't spend money if it is not there. Not sure it will sink in though........

[whitesox61382]

"Hmm, gee I wonder who is looking to start more arguements? The instant I ask you why you flip flopped you made it personal. Really that is just sad. it is painfully obvious by your own words that you will just say whatever just looking for a fight. That might be fun for ESPN with the rest of the trolls, but it doesn't fly here as mature posting."

 

In all likelyhood I don't think the Sox will have the money to sign a player like Castillo, and I point that out in both of my post, however, with the volatility and uncertainty that is the offseason it is certainly possible that other senerios are possible. I simply looked at things both ways and threw out a couple of possibilities in which case the Sox could spend a little money on a decent FA, and you jump on me in an attempt to prove me wrong.

 

Now who is the one making this personal? Pot meet kettle??? How did I make it personal; by bring up the Ponson arguement? That was a little joke that you clearly overracted too. I often take the other side of an arguement in an attempt to see both sides and you critize me for that? Your right, maybe we should all agree on everything, because thats better. You need to understand that your point of view isn't the only way to look at things. I like to play devils advocate just to show that their are other points of view that you aren't taking into consideration(neither side necassarily being wrong or right). That tends to make for more interesting conversations, unless you think that everyone agreeing on an issue is more stimulating. Maturing posting...now thats funny. You sound like a 10 year old kind who thinks he is better then the other 10 years old because he thinks he is more mature.

 

"The bottom line is, until salary is freed up, there is no money to sign Castillo or anyone else with any halfway decent sized contract. And even then, I am not convinced that KW would commit to him (or any player) for 4 year."

 

In general I would agree with the above, however, I point to the Colon issue to agrue against it. What if Colon accepted the Sox offer? Sure it wasn't likely, but the Sox management had to take that possibility into consideration before offering him a new contract. If that would have happened, than the Sox would have contradicted your above statement. They would have added a HUGE contract without freeing up any money. So the question I have, is why wouldn't they do it again, especially if it is a significantly lower amount of money(5.5M/yr opposed to Colon's offer of 12M/yr)? I am not suggesting that it is likely or that I necassariliy agree with it(although I would love to see Castillo in a Sox uniform), but based on the Colon issue I think you have to understand that their is a slim possibility that it could happen.

[BrandoFan]

Anything more than 6 Mill for Castillo and 8 for Colon is a high-way robbery.

 

We are not the Yankees. We are not even the Cubs. Time to realize that simeple fact.

 

The only players we can afford to over-pay for are Frank and, to a lsser extent, Maggs. They are home-grown crowd-favorites and one of them is one of the most exciting players in Sox history.

[southsider2k5]

"Hmm, gee I wonder who is looking to start more arguements? The instant I ask you why you flip flopped you made it personal. Really that is just sad. it is painfully obvious by your own words that you will just say whatever just looking for a fight.  That might be fun for ESPN with the rest of the trolls, but it doesn't fly here as mature posting."

 

In all likelyhood I don't think the Sox will have the money to sign a player like Castillo, and I point that out in both of my post, however, with the volatility and uncertainty that is the offseason it is certainly possible that other senerios are possible. I simply looked at things both ways and threw out a couple of possibilities in which case the Sox could spend a little money on a decent FA, and you jump on me in an attempt to prove me wrong.

 

Now who is the one making this personal? Pot meet kettle??? How did I make it personal; by bring up the Ponson arguement? That was a little joke that you clearly overracted too. I often take the other side of an arguement  in an attempt to see both sides and you critize me for that? Your right, maybe we should all agree on everything, because thats better. You need to understand that your point of view isn't the only way to look at things. I like to play devils advocate just to show that their are other points of view that you aren't taking into consideration(neither side necassarily being wrong or right). That tends to make for more interesting conversations, unless you think that everyone agreeing on an issue is more stimulating. Maturing posting...now thats funny. You sound like a 10 year old kind who thinks he is better then the other 10 years old because he thinks he is more mature.

 

"The bottom line is, until salary is freed up, there is no money to sign Castillo or anyone else with any halfway decent sized contract. And even then, I am not convinced that KW would commit to him (or any player) for 4 year."

 

In general I would agree with the above, however, I point to the Colon issue to agrue against it. What if Colon accepted the Sox offer? Sure it wasn't likely, but the Sox management had to take that possibility into consideration before offering him a new contract. If that would have happened, than the Sox would have contradicted your above statement. They would have added a HUGE contract without freeing up any money. So the question I have, is why wouldn't they do it again, especially if it is a significantly lower amount of money(5.5M/yr opposed to Colon's offer of 12M/yr)? I am not suggesting that it is likely or that I necassariliy agree with it(although I would love to see Castillo in a Sox uniform), but based on the Colon issue I think you have to understand that their is a slim possibility that it could happen.

keep rationalizing...

[Rex Hudler]

but based on the Colon issue I think you have to understand that their is a slim possibility that it could happen.

 

There is ALWAYS a slim possibility something could happen. But it won't happen unless KW knows he can free up the salary.

 

In the Colon case, I believe the difference is in retaining your own player versus offering a contract to anotehr team's free agent. Couple that with the fact that Colon is a top starter and I think you have your answer. Some may disagree with me, but I think there is a big enough difference in the two situations for it to make sense.

[BrandoFan]

Couple that with the fact that Colon is a top starter and I think you have your answer.

 

If by "top starter" you mean, a "barely passable #2 whose rubber arm is about to fall off, but not before his back goes out".....then I fully agree.

 

There is no way I want to see Sox give 20% of the payroll to Fatolo. 2 year/17 Mill tops or f*** off.

[greasywheels121]

Aha! Now I understand the Cubs. It's pathetic, so damn pathetic.

 

You see, the Cubs got beat by the Marlins, what do you think the Cubs are trying to do? BUY THE MARLINS. Look at it, first Lee, now MAYBE Castillo. This isn't right, form your own god damn team.

 

I hope they choke and die next year with all these hopeful moves, and I also hope they destroyed that nucleus of whatever that got them to the NLCS.

 

Can anyone say, WANNABE YANKEES?

 

And sheesh, I thought the Yankees would be first in line for Florida players. Sad.

WANNABE YANKEES.....

 

Well this is pathetic, the Cubs are definitely caving in. If this goes through they got the left side of the infield checked off from Florida's team.

[Rex Hudler]

WANNABE YANKEES.....

 

Well this is pathetic, the Cubs are definitely caving in.  If this goes through they got the left side of the infield checked off from Florida's team.

Caving in?? Damn Pathetic???

 

The Cubs are spending money on free agents and making trades to make them better and you criticize them?? They are doing EXACTLY what Sox fans are calling for their own team to do!

[Rex Hudler]

If by "top starter" you mean, a "barely passable #2 whose rubber arm is about to fall off, but not before his back goes out".....then I fully agree.

 

There is no way I want to see Sox give 20% of the payroll to Fatolo.  2 year/17 Mill tops or f*** off.

You can look at Bartolo however you want. I didn't say # 1 starter for a reason because I knew that would be debated. But I can guarantee you that KW and the Sox don't view Colon in that light.

 

What makes you think his "rubber arm is about to fall off"? Any evidence? Seems that if teams are willing to give him big money, they would know more than we do about his health.

[BrandoFan]

Caving in?? Damn Pathetic???

 

The Cubs are spending money on free agents and making trades to make them better and you criticize them??

 

I hate the Cubs. Them losing 100 games next season would thrill me almost as much as Sox winning 100 games.

 

Having said that, they have MUCH better fans than we do. Sorry, it's true. That's why they are gonna have a payroll close to 100 Mill next season while we'll be struggling to have one over 55.

 

Sad.