Rex Hudler Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Does this mean the Sox will for sure get a 1st round pick? I can never seem to get a handle on arbitration and the rest that needs to be done for a team to get compensation for losing free agents. SB Yes, if he signs the contract before December 7th, the Sox will get compensated for sure. As of right now, the Sox will get a supplemental 1st round pick and another pick from the Yankees. It is very confusing, but other free agents the Yankees sign will affect the position of the second pick the Sox receive. Even if the Yankees don't officially sign Gordon before December 7, due to the demand (at least perceived) for Gordon, the Sox will feel safe enough to offer him arbitration, which will ensure the picks. December 7 is the deadline for teams offering arbitration to free agents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 If this report becomes official and Gordon makes 7 million dollars over two seasons ($3.5M per) I have to wonder about the Sox desire to sign our own free agents. I don't think what Flash was asking for is so out of line especially when unofficial reports said he wanted $5M a year. I believed the Sox offered Gordon between $2.5 and $3 million for one year. In my mind, that was a fair offer. Obviously, he has been able to get more, so more power to him. But just because the Yankees or any other team deems a guy worth a certain amount, doesn't mean the Sox were wrong because they offered less. The Sox will never win if they have to obtain or retain free agents through a bidding war. They have to be smart in getting good value for the right kind of players. Now if the Sox trade Maggs and don't take on much salary in return, then they would have some more room to play with and could up the ante on certain players a bit. But without flexibility, they are resigned to be bargain hunters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 The more I think about it, the less I like baseball anymore. What you get all off-season long is the same 4-6 teams driving up prices and snatching all the best players, leaving the other teams hoping to catch lightning in a bottle like Anaheim did in 2002. Why does the attendance suck at US Cellular in the early months every year? Because how can you get too excited over the team, when you see NY signing Gordon, Sheffield, Giambi, Matsui, et al, Boston gets Schilling, Manny, Pedro, Damon, etc. For sure, these plans don't work out necessarily, but it's certainly a lot easier to get pumped up right now for April if you're a Red Sox or Yankee fan, than if you are a White Sox or Toronto or Minnesota fan. We, along with the fans of 28 or so other teams, have to hope that retread free agent signings mesh with no-name rookies and "career years" to get your team its one shot, before the odds catch up with you, and you fall back to earth. Your only hope is that the team plays well enough in the first half that the GM can swing some temporary deals to rent better players from under-performing teams looking to dump salary in order to reload. and then your team gets torn apart after one season because the owner won't outbid the 4-6 big money teams to keep your players, and you're right back where you started. Don't be fooled by the Marlins or Angels of the last 2 seasons, they are anomalies. The Yankees, 97 Marlins, and DBacks are more indicative of how things work anymore. The brewers trade Sexson to shave payroll down from $30 million? Give me a f***ing break, and give me a salary cap. I'm about 2 seasons away from not watching another pro baseball game again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 They can have him. Agreed. Gordon did have a successful year, and he can pitch. However, that only happens when he's healthy. Gordon has a long line of being injured. I highly doubt the Bankees get the same Gordon we saw in 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 the yanks can take a chance on offering him two years.They did the same thign with jon Lieber last year. we can't. I thought Gordon pitched very well. I will miss him. hey what is hte word on Osuna? He is a free agent,can the guy still pitch? he maybe cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 i'd say Mark Beurhle in the 38th or whatever round was a pretty good find, Crede, Lee, and Maggs came up through our system, as did Rowand. Also, maybe not in the past 2 years or so but in the late '90s our farm system was consitently rated amongst the best. Did Cameron come through our system too? Buehrle was a lucky pick. If you can get a 38th round pick to do what he did, you got a little bit of luck on your side. Crede - probably the best of the bunch. I believe he was a 5th round pick. Maggs and Lee both were undrafted FAs we signed out of Venezuela and Panama respectively. And Rowand is nothing to be proud of. Plain and simple, we have not had a successful minor league system, especially through the first-year player draft, virtually at all for about 10 years. Back in the late 80s, early 90s, we had Ventura, Black Jack, Thomas, Fernandez, and Bere come up and play good baseball. We really have not had that a whole hell of a lot. However, Kipper can't be forgotten....he's played pretty goddamned good for the Pirates unnoticed. He was a 1st rounder that actually succeeded....problem is, he didn't do it for us. And yes, Cameron came through the White Sox system. Look at the Twins minor league system and who they've gotten via the draft. I can tell you that they have gotten a ton more, and that their minor league system still would kick our ass any day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Yes, if he signs the contract before December 7th, the Sox will get compensated for sure. As of right now, the Sox will get a supplemental 1st round pick and another pick from the Yankees. It is very confusing, but other free agents the Yankees sign will affect the position of the second pick the Sox receive. Even if the Yankees don't officially sign Gordon before December 7, due to the demand (at least perceived) for Gordon, the Sox will feel safe enough to offer him arbitration, which will ensure the picks. December 7 is the deadline for teams offering arbitration to free agents. Thanks for clearing that up. As far as I understand it if the Yanks sign a Type A player from a team with a worse record then the Sox, then we don't get their first round draft pick but another pick of some sort. Right now Sheffield is the only other player they have signed and the Braves have a worse record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 the yanks can take a chance on offering him two years.They did the same thign with jon Lieber last year. we can't. I thought Gordon pitched very well. I will miss him. hey what is hte word on Osuna? He is a free agent,can the guy still pitch? he maybe cheap I'm probably one of the only ones who'd like to see the Sox bring Osuna back at like 600-800 K for the year. I think hte Sox need 3 more relievers (If they move Koch)...this would be the 3rd guy, the other two I'd want to be better, more like setup men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Thanks for clearing that up. As far as I understand it if the Yanks sign a Type A player from a team with a worse record then the Sox, then we don't get their first round draft pick but another pick of some sort. Right now Sheffield is the only other player they have signed and the Braves have a worse record. If a team should forfeit multiple picks for signing multiple free agents, the team losing the highest-ranked of those free agents gets the highest compensation choice. This was from the latest Ask BA. If this is the case, the way I interpret it is that the Braves would get the higher choice because Gary Sheffield is ranked higher than Tom Gordon (or so I assume). It also includes a complete list of the Free Agents and how they are classified. Ask BA - Scroll down about midway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Yes, if he signs the contract before December 7th, the Sox will get compensated for sure. As of right now, the Sox will get a supplemental 1st round pick and another pick from the Yankees. It is very confusing, but other free agents the Yankees sign will affect the position of the second pick the Sox receive. Even if the Yankees don't officially sign Gordon before December 7, due to the demand (at least perceived) for Gordon, the Sox will feel safe enough to offer him arbitration, which will ensure the picks. December 7 is the deadline for teams offering arbitration to free agents. Rex, Gordon is a type A free agent, and with the Yankee's draft pick well above 15, we'd get their first round pick as well as a first round supplemental. I know it depends on other clubs, but I'm assuming the crappier team would get the pick if a team signs two type A free agents. Scenario: Yanks get Gordon and Sheffield. Our draft ranking, which I believe is 16 or 18, is much lower than the Braves', which is in the 20s. Assuming the Yanks stop reeling in FAs, wouldn't the Sox receive the first rounder instead of the Braves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Rex, Gordon is a type A free agent, and with the Yankee's draft pick well above 15, we'd get their first round pick as well as a first round supplemental. I know it depends on other clubs, but I'm assuming the crappier team would get the pick if a team signs two type A free agents. Scenario: Yanks get Gordon and Sheffield. Our draft ranking, which I believe is 16 or 18, is much lower than the Braves', which is in the 20s. Assuming the Yanks stop reeling in FAs, wouldn't the Sox receive the first rounder instead of the Braves? See my most recent post. If BA is correct, the ranking of the free agents signed dictate the draft position, not the record of the club losing the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I read that from BA, but to my knowledge Gordon and Sheffield are "equal" because they are both Type A free agents. Unless the Elias Sports Bureau says Player X is better than Player Y (say Sheffield is the third best OFer, while Gordon is the 7th best MR) than wouldn't record determine who gets the pick? Or at least a hardcore duel of rock-paper-scissors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I read that from BA, but to my knowledge Gordon and Sheffield are "equal" because they are both Type A free agents. Unless the Elias Sports Bureau says Player X is better than Player Y (say Sheffield is the third best OFer, while Gordon is the 7th best MR) than wouldn't record determine who gets the pick? Or at least a hardcore duel of rock-paper-scissors? That was my original point. It is clear as mud. What happens when the Yankees sign a 3rd and 4th free agent??? I have no clue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 That was my original point. It is clear as mud. What happens when the Yankees sign a 3rd and 4th free agent??? I have no clue! Weird...I can't see how they can rate the importance of a player like that. To me its unfair, I think the team with the worse record should get the better pick, but I see the other side as well. Either way the Sox would get at the least 2 first round comp picks and at the best a first round comp and the Yankees first rounder. Thats just for Gordon, to me thats pretty damn good. And if they lose Bartolo, they'll pick up another two picks so that would be 4 first rounders plus our own first rounder. The Sox are gonna be in a position where a great draft can really set them in a great spot in a few years (This years draft was very good, imo, especially with position players). It will be interesting to see, if they get that many picks, what they focus in on. I see them taking a catcher and infielder high and then going pitching, pitching and more pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I just read that the Yanks where close to signing Quantrill too. Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 The yankees are also going to sign LaTroy, Pudge Rodriguez, Colon, Castillo, Millwood and Matsui. The Red Sox will respond by signing Shannon Stewart, Sidney Ponson, Keith Foulke and Tony G. Nobody else will sign anybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 The yankees are also going to sign LaTroy, Pudge Rodriguez, Colon, Castillo, Millwood and Matsui. The Red Sox will respond by signing Shannon Stewart, Sidney Ponson, Keith Foulke and Tony G. Nobody else will sign anybody. The sad thing is this could actually happen.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I know. Sadly, I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Well how many times have the Sox been Screwed?? We pickup a player that' been injured, he has a good season and fills his mouth talking Bulls*** that he likes the sox and he stabs us in the back? Let's see that list include's Ellis Burks Darrin Jackson Kevin Tapani Danny Tartabull and on and on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Thanks for clearing that up. As far as I understand it if the Yanks sign a Type A player from a team with a worse record then the Sox, then we don't get their first round draft pick but another pick of some sort. Right now Sheffield is the only other player they have signed and the Braves have a worse record. You get a thing called a Sandwich pick. A pick after the 1st round and before the 2nd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 That was my original point. It is clear as mud. What happens when the Yankees sign a 3rd and 4th free agent??? I have no clue! Whichever way it works, the Sox will get the short end of the stick. You can bet on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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