kane0730 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Posted on Wed, Dec. 03, 2003 SHOOTER: Losing Hawkins gets Twins a draft pick CHARLEY WALTERS Pioneer Press Columnist AAs a result of free-agent Twins relief pitcher LaTroy Hawkins agreeing to contract terms with the Chicago Cubs on Tuesday, the Twins will get the Cubs' first-round pick, No. 24 overall, in June's amateur draft. The Twins have the No. 21 overall pick in the draft. Although Hawkins' $11 million deal has been reported to be for three years, Hawkins, who turns 31 on Dec. 21, has an opt-out clause after two years. If Hawkins averages 60 appearances a season for the Cubs, the three-year deal would increase to $12.5 million. If Hawkins becomes the Cubs' closer instead of setup man, a distinct possibility considering the unpredictability of Chicago closer Joe Borowski, the deal would be worth $15.2 million. Hawkins grew up in nearby Gary, Ind. Insiders say Hawkins' deal includes a $2 million signing bonus. • The Twins are expected to re-sign closer Eddie Guardado for about $7.5 million for two years. But the Twins' Plan B, if they are unable to sign Guardado, is to try to sign free-agent right-handed closer Roberto Hernandez of Atlanta. However, there's a good chance Hernandez will sign with the Chicago White Sox because his former teammate and pal, Ozzie Guillen, is the White Sox manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Reunited and if feels so good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Cubs get Hawkins...........We get Roberto Hernandez....... Seems about par. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 what? why does everything we do have to revolve around the Cubs? They got Hawkins, we get HErnandez, so what? Has KW publically said we are going to top every Cubs move this season? Have the Sox said that they are even going after to Hernandez? Have the Sox said that Hernandez is a big priority with them like the Cubs said with Hawkins? NO. We really gotta stop getting upset based on what the Cubs are doing. We knew going into this off-season we weren't going to make an impact right off the bat (hell, when we made the trades for Alomar and Everett at mid-season many believed it was all or nothing for us) and KW has proven time and time again that he will be agressive and make something happen to give us a good team (how the players play on the field is out of his hands). Also, how often have we really known about a Sox move before it has happened with KW in charge? very few times. for all we know a blockbuster deal could be made today. Let's just stop with the whole Cubs/Sox comparision crap. They are in another division in another league last time I checked. The Twins lose arguably their best reliever and we are upset because the Cubs get him. That just doesn't make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 And just wait until we sign Rock Raines to hit leadoff and One Dog to play CF. Torii Hunter and Johan Santana are quakin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 what? why does everything we do have to revolve around the Cubs? They got Hawkins, we get HErnandez, so what? Has KW publically said we are going to top every Cubs move this season? Have the Sox said that they are even going after to Hernandez? Have the Sox said that Hernandez is a big priority with them like the Cubs said with Hawkins? NO. We really gotta stop getting upset based on what the Cubs are doing. We knew going into this off-season we weren't going to make an impact right off the bat (hell, when we made the trades for Alomar and Everett at mid-season many believed it was all or nothing for us) and KW has proven time and time again that he will be agressive and make something happen to give us a good team (how the players play on the field is out of his hands). Also, how often have we really known about a Sox move before it has happened with KW in charge? very few times. for all we know a blockbuster deal could be made today. Let's just stop with the whole Cubs/Sox comparision crap. They are in another division in another league last time I checked. The Twins lose arguably their best reliever and we are upset because the Cubs get him. That just doesn't make sense. Why does everything revolve around the Cubs? Because when you compete in the same market, your competition is an instant measure of your own success or failure. We aren't in direct competition with the Cubs for a division or league title, but we are in direct competition with them for entertainment dollars. To discount what the Cubs do is shortsighted IMO. It would be like HP discounting what Dell does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 What the hell would Roberto Hernandez be good for? God I hope this is strictly a rumor. As for the Cubs signing Hawkins, who cares? And wait till they try to make him a closer. How quickly it has been forgotten that the Twins tried Hawkins as a starter, AND a closer, and he failed miserably at both. He doesn't have the makeup to be a closer, he's strictly a set-up guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Molto, great post. We agree about the KW aspect, the Sox have tried for the past few years to fly under the radar when it comes to leaking stuff out about who they're considering, trade rumors, etc. You are right, there could be a blockbuster looming, who knows. And KW has always proved to be aggressive, if not on target all the time. As for the Cubs, it depends on how deep one's dislike for the Cubs runs. Mine runs very deep, and as such, I really hate to see them do anything that appears to be an improvement. Hawkins may work well for them, but he's really just come into his own the last 2 years, and he's been pretty well protected by the rest of that Twins bullpen. So while I'm happy to see the Twins lose him, I wish he'd gone elsewhere other than the Cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 what? why does everything we do have to revolve around the Cubs? They got Hawkins, we get HErnandez, so what? Because they are, like, by far our BIGGEST rival? Twins will be contracted in a few years and AL will be re-aligned......but Cubs will be around to steal our fans, publicity and f***-up our payroll for DECADES to come. Get it now? If Hawkins averages 60 appearances a season for the Cubs, the three-year deal would increase to $12.5 million. If Hawkins becomes the Cubs' closer instead of setup man, a distinct possibility considering the unpredictability of Chicago closer Joe Borowski, the deal would be worth $15.2 million. Hawkins grew up in nearby Gary, Ind. Insiders say Hawkins' deal includes a $2 million signing bonus Considering Borowski is pretty much a lock for meltdown in 2004, Hawkins is as good as closer. So with signing bonus, the deal is worth 5.7 Mill a year, which is a) where we knew it would be, and B.) why Sox didn't even bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 What the hell would Roberto Hernandez be good for? God I hope this is strictly a rumor. A Sox Old-Timers Game?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 You know, it really doesn't matter what the Cubs do. Minnesota is collapsing, and so its good that the Cubs did that. I mean yeah, its going to be a pain in the ass next year when facing them late in games, but still, it doesn't really matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Between the incentives, signing bonus, and anticipated closer's bump, Hawkins was obviously too rich for our blood. To look at it objectively, it's a lot better for us to have the Twins' pen weakened to the benefit of the Cubs'. That's 13 less times we have the possibility of facing Hawkins in games and, more importantly, a big loss to the Twins late relief core. Here's hoping they lose Eddie as well. On the other side, to look at it the way most of us Sox fans are either genetically programmed or environmentally conditioned to do, it's really hard to stomach any move that can better the Evil Empire on the north side of town. :fthecubs :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Let's hope we don't sign a bunch of end of their career players just because they are friends with Ozzie Guillen. Can Roberto Hernandez contribute anymore? I don't know, but not at closer and not for big bucks either. Do they have one more year left in them and make a pennant winnong contribution. Never know I guess till next October right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 You just can't compare KW and Hendry because Hendry has so much more to work with then KW. I see points in noticing those moves because a strong season or two for the Cubs could shrivel up Sox chances of regaining their market share, but everything is cyclical. As far as Roberto Hernandez, why is everyone down on him. He's not as good as Flash, but he has closer experience and is still a decent pitcher. The Sox need 2 or 3 vets and while I hope he isn't the best guy we bring in, he's definately better then a lot of guys out there and would be a welcome addition to the pen (Which is a very key aspect to this team going far, imo). Bring Sully back too and now the pen isn't looking near as bad. Plus I'll take my chances on Roberto for a bit cheaper cause odds are Gordon re-injures himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Why does everything revolve around the Cubs? Because when you compete in the same market, your competition is an instant measure of your own success or failure. We aren't in direct competition with the Cubs for a division or league title, but we are in direct competition with them for entertainment dollars. To discount what the Cubs do is shortsighted IMO. It would be like HP discounting what Dell does. If Sox fans would show up at games, we would not be in such a predicament. I understand most here go to games, so this is not an indictment at anyone here personally, but if the Sox do not get the following the Cubs do, their payroll will not go up. It is really that simple.....it is a vicious cycle where the fans will not go to the park until we get a winner and it is not easy to get a winner with a shoe string budget Although I think even if we went with the team we have right now Willie at 2b, Val at SS, PK at 1B, FT at DH, CLee, Maggs and ARow at OF, Loaiza, Buerhle, Garland as top 3 pitchers with Scho and some scrub from the market as 5th pitcher, and with Wright, Marte, re-sign Sullivan, Wunsch, Koch in bull pen, we could win this division of ours, as weak as it is And if we are winning come trade deadline, KW will definitely upgrade where required....the quesiton is will the fans come though....otherwise we are in the same position next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 You are missing my point. what I'm saying is we shouldn't be trying to match the Cubs, move for move, and even if so, when did the Sox say they are going for Hernandez and even if so, have the Sox said that Hernandez will make the same impact as Hawkins for the Cubs? NO, they didn't. This is my whole point. I understand that many Sox fans hate (are jealous) of the Cubs and I understand we are in competition with them from a business stand point, but just because they make a signing on December 2nd doesn't mean we have to make a signing of similiar impact on December 3rd, if at all. we go through the same stuff every off-season. Remember last year? the Colon rumor came out and didn't happen for a while. Everybody's response? "They aren't going to get him because the Sox don't want to win" ... or, "KW is too stupid to pull off a deal for Colon, IT ISN"T GOING TO HAPPEN." And then ... it happened. Also, as Jason has said, Hendry is in a total different situation. KW has $60 million to work with and $55 already spent, while Hendry has $80+. You give KW an $80 million payroll and guarantee he puts together one of the best teams out there, as would most GMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 You are missing my point. what I'm saying is we shouldn't be trying to match the Cubs, move for move, and even if so, when did the Sox say they are going for Hernandez and even if so, have the Sox said that Hernandez will make the same impact as Hawkins for the Cubs? NO, they didn't. The Sox couldn't match the Cubs move-for-move even if the fans and management WANTED to. I believe it has something to do with EXTRA 40 MILLION Cubs have to work with in terms of payroll. It's a non-debate. This is my whole point. I understand that many Sox fans hate (are jealous) of the Cubs I hate the Cubs, and have LOTS OF FUN while doing it. Wouldn't trade it for the world, and it has NOTHING to do with jealousy. Why would be jealous of a team that lost 100 games in '99 with a 70 mill payroll and 95 games in 2002 with a 75 Mill one, and hasn't won s*** in 95 years? Give the Sox a high payroll we are bound to win something if only by accident. I DO want Sox fans to support our team like Cubs fans do and give us a fighting chance. I would never want Cubs to re-locate or lose their fans because it would detract from sheer fun of HATING them. we go through the same stuff every off-season. Remember last year? the Colon rumor came out and didn't happen for a while. Everybody's response? "They aren't going to get him because the Sox don't want to win" ... or, "KW is too stupid to pull off a deal for Colon, IT ISN"T GOING TO HAPPEN." And then ... it happened. And we were rewarded with a pretty mediocre performance from a fat and apathetic man. And make no mistake about it, buddy, CUBS are by far our BIGGEST rival when it's all said and done. That's why god fobid they make World Series next year (let alone win it) while we suck as we have in the last 3 years, WE'RE DONE in this town. Me and witesoxfan and clujer have been saying this since early last year and we were 5 outs away from doom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 To be honest with you guys I hope that the White Sox players don't think their biggest rivals are the Cubs. They have to be thinking Twins, Indians and Royals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Molto, great post. We agree about the KW aspect, the Sox have tried for the past few years to fly under the radar when it comes to leaking stuff out about who they're considering, trade rumors, etc. You are right, there could be a blockbuster looming, who knows. And KW has always proved to be aggressive, if not on target all the time. As for the Cubs, it depends on how deep one's dislike for the Cubs runs. Mine runs very deep, and as such, I really hate to see them do anything that appears to be an improvement. Hawkins may work well for them, but he's really just come into his own the last 2 years, and he's been pretty well protected by the rest of that Twins bullpen. So while I'm happy to see the Twins lose him, I wish he'd gone elsewhere other than the Cubs. I can only hope that hawkins breaks his arm. Prior, trips on a bat and breaks his wrist, and kerry wood blows out his arm again. As for all of you who are offended by these comments. Well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 For everyone who thinks the Twins are going to the s***ter because they lost ONE setup man, wake the f*** up. They had Juan Rincon pitch rock solid last year and late in the year the Twins saw the emergence of Grant Balfour as a setup man. Their bullpen will be no worse this year then it was last year. Rincon will take Hawkins's spot, and Balfour will take Rincon's old spot. If they can resign Guardado, you will actually probably see a better bullpen, because JC Romero can go no place but up. It's what they do to fill the lineup that I'm concerned about. They are going to go with either LeCroy at catcher or Mauer at catcher, and each has their weaknesses. And as far as their outfield is concerned, I think one of Stewart and Jones will be gone, and it will probably be a tough choice for which one they keep and which one they drop, mainly because they have 5 solid OFers that are all pretty good that were up at the end of last year(Hunter, Stewart, Jones, Mohr and Michael Ryan). I think Mohr starts next year for them and one of Stewart and Jones is gone....whichever one of the two they decide to get rid of I think the White Sox should pick up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurlyMan56 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I think the Twins would do whatever they can possible to not have one of those outfielders in the same division... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I dont care what anyone says, a team that you play 6 times a year is NOT your biggest rival. Simple as that. If by 'simple' you mean 'short-sighted', then I agree. 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I can only hope that hawkins breaks his arm. Prior, trips on a bat and breaks his wrist, and kerry wood blows out his arm again. As for all of you who are offended by these comments. Well.. I never wish ill on the Cubs; I want them to lose 120 fair-n-square. Having said that, Kerry Wood will not finish 2004 as won't Matt Clement. Just watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Their bullpen will be no worse this year then it was last year. Rincon will take Hawkins's spot, and Balfour will take Rincon's old spot. If they can resign Guardado, you will actually probably see a better bullpen Latroy Hawkins was a 4.50 ERA reliever with two good seasons under his back. Rincon and Belfour have as much chance of being sub-3.00 ERA studs again as Sullivan and Wunsht. Wake up. Minnesota is an 80-win team next year. All we gotta do is play fundamental baseball and come through in the clutch (we haven't done that since 2000), and ewr win the division by 10-12 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurlyMan56 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Wasnt that suppose to be the game plan for this year? Winning the division big? I realize after last season anything can happen. Especially when you were suppose to have 2 aces in Colon/Buehrle...Along with a suprise in Loaiza... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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