witesoxfan Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 For those who want yet another legit source that we are in the Colon/Vazquez race, check this out: Ken Rosenthal's Inside Dish The Red Sox could be the last team standing in the Colon/Vazquez sweepstakes, but the White Sox are among the teams that retain strong interest in Vazquez, who is two years away from free agency, while Colon is entering the final year of his contract. The other thing troubling teams about Colon is his weight, reported to be as high as 260 pounds. One scout says who saw Colon in the Dominican says, "He's gotten so big all over, his eyes are ready to shut. What catches my eye here is that he says Vazquez first, and then later on Colon....either I am getting scared that we will be getting Vazquez rather than Colon, or he worded it badly. Vazquez is a great pitcher...but I want Colon. He's pitched in the AL Central and has had success....I don't want a guy that has potential to be something incredibly good but gives us a 12-15 win season with an ERA of 4.00 or so....that's not the typical definition of an ace. I want Colon. Then again, I'll take both of them too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hold2dibber Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Vazquez is a great pitcher...but I want Colon. He's pitched in the AL Central and has had success....I don't want a guy that has potential to be something incredibly good but gives us a 12-15 win season with an ERA of 4.00 or so....that's not the typical definition of an ace. I want Colon. Then again, I'll take both of them too! Even if Colon is as big as a house? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 For those who want yet another legit source that we are in the Colon/Vazquez race, check this out: Ken Rosenthal's Inside Dish The Red Sox could be the last team standing in the Colon/Vazquez sweepstakes, but the White Sox are among the teams that retain strong interest in Vazquez, who is two years away from free agency, while Colon is entering the final year of his contract. The other thing troubling teams about Colon is his weight, reported to be as high as 260 pounds. One scout says who saw Colon in the Dominican says, "He's gotten so big all over, his eyes are ready to shut. What catches my eye here is that he says Vazquez first, and then later on Colon....either I am getting scared that we will be getting Vazquez rather than Colon, or he worded it badly. Vazquez is a great pitcher...but I want Colon. He's pitched in the AL Central and has had success....I don't want a guy that has potential to be something incredibly good but gives us a 12-15 win season with an ERA of 4.00 or so....that's not the typical definition of an ace. I want Colon. Then again, I'll take both of them too! if we get colon and vasquez, i suppose that you would be oppose to any trade on getting rid of colon, lets say for some young stud pit and hitter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OfficerKarkovice Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 What catches my eye here is that he says Vazquez first, and then later on Colon....either I am getting scared that we will be getting Vazquez rather than Colon, or he worded it badly. Vazquez is a great pitcher...but I want Colon. He's pitched in the AL Central and has had success....I don't want a guy that has potential to be something incredibly good but gives us a 12-15 win season with an ERA of 4.00 or so....that's not the typical definition of an ace. I want Colon. I'll gladly take Colon...but that being said...if I had a choice I'd take Vazquez. Here is what ESPN's profile had to say about him. Pitching With a maturity beyond his years, Vazquez throws five pitches a fastball, slider, curve, changeup and cutter for strikes. He doesn't hurt himself with bases on balls and has such a good feel for his changeup that lefthanded hitters find him even tougher than righthanded ones. He carries the responsibility of an ace well, consistently pitching into the late innings without wearing down. In fact, he seems to get stronger as the game wears on, as he held opponents to a .186 batting average in the seventh inning or later in 2001. One of the bright young stars in the game, he could be an All-Star for years to come. Defense & Hitting Vazquez played errorless ball for the third time in four seasons while snaring everything that came his way in the middle of the infield. He's always been tough to run on, and when he added a slide step in the second half, stolen-base attempts against him nearly disappeared. Few pitchers aid their own cause at the plate as much as Vazquez. He annually ranks among the leaders in pitchers' batting average, and is one of the best bunters in the majors, position players included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OfficerKarkovice Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 if we get colon and vasquez, i suppose that you would be oppose to any trade on getting rid of colon, lets say for some young stud pit and hitter? Why do you taunt me with such ideas!!! Ok here goes...IF somehow we could miraculously pull that off here is what I do...turn around and trade B. Colon and Carlos Lee to the Reds for Adam Dunn and Ryan Dempster (fill in a few prospects where need be). Then we go into the season with: Mark B. Vazquez Garland Dempster Wright/Rauch 2B - Jiminez SS - Valentin DH - Thomas RF - Maggs 1B - Konerko LF - Dunn 3B - Crede CF - Rowand/Borchard C - Olivo We would be unbeatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Although Colon is a little bit better pitcher, Vasquez is younger, cheaper, and is two years away from free agency. He would fit in perfectally behind Buerhle and in front of Garland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Vazquez is a great pitcher...but I want Colon. He's pitched in the AL Central and has had success....I don't want a guy that has potential to be something incredibly good but gives us a 12-15 win season with an ERA of 4.00 or so....that's not the typical definition of an ace. I want Colon. Then again, I'll take both of them too! Even if Colon is as big as a house? Dibb...I heard on the Radio today that the Red Sox dropped out of the race after their scouts flew out to the Dominican and weighed him in at 271 Pounds!!! Don't know how true it was, but it was on a reliable station (xtra 690) I also heard that another suitor, the New York Mets, is a possibility for Colon, but they don't have the prospects to offer. They were part of the supposed 3 way deal, but now they suspect they may go after Colon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 HOLD TEH PHONES: C Lee and Colon for Dunn and Dempster? Wouldn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OfficerKarkovice Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 HOLD TEH PHONES: C Lee and Colon for Dunn and Dempster? Wouldn't happen. I'm not so sure...there were talks of Dunn moving when the Reds were in the race for Colon...perhaps that is why they didn't get him...but still I know you would have to throw in prospects and all but Lee and Colon would be some serious talent we would be giving up. They have a lot of talent in Cincy to make up for the loss of Dunn (plus they get Lee) and I'm not too sure they are pleased with Dempster at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 HOLD TEH PHONES: C Lee and Colon for Dunn and Dempster? Wouldn't happen. I'm confused, how would this deal work? I'm assuming it is a 3 way deal with the Reds and Expos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 if we get colon and vasquez, i suppose that you would be oppose to any trade on getting rid of colon, lets say for some young stud pit and hitter? Why do you taunt me with such ideas!!! Ok here goes...IF somehow we could miraculously pull that off here is what I do...turn around and trade B. Colon and Carlos Lee to the Reds for Adam Dunn and Ryan Dempster (fill in a few prospects where need be). Then we go into the season with: Mark B. Vazquez Garland Dempster Wright/Rauch 2B - Jiminez SS - Valentin DH - Thomas RF - Maggs 1B - Konerko LF - Dunn 3B - Crede CF - Rowand/Borchard C - Olivo We would be unbeatable. Well, thats a legit proposal. I'd do it, would the Reds? At first I think of it as funny, but if the Reds would take on Lee's salary and Colons it would be sweet deal. I just don't see them taking the money. Of course the whole fun of proposing things like this is to dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 if we get colon and vasquez, i suppose that you would be oppose to any trade on getting rid of colon, lets say for some young stud pit and hitter? Why do you taunt me with such ideas!!! Ok here goes...IF somehow we could miraculously pull that off here is what I do...turn around and trade B. Colon and Carlos Lee to the Reds for Adam Dunn and Ryan Dempster (fill in a few prospects where need be). Then we go into the season with: Mark B. Vazquez Garland Dempster Wright/Rauch 2B - Jiminez SS - Valentin DH - Thomas RF - Maggs 1B - Konerko LF - Dunn 3B - Crede CF - Rowand/Borchard C - Olivo We would be unbeatable. that is what i am going for with the reds or sfo. sfo has some players i would love jerome williams, Jesse Foppert, Ryan Hannaman, and orR.D. Spiehs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OfficerKarkovice Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 that is what i am going for with the reds or sfo. sfo has some players i would love jerome williams, Jesse Foppert, Ryan Hannaman, and orR.D. Spiehs HEY you're leaving out my boy Boof Bonser! San Fran is loaded with pitching prospects...on that subject I can't believe that KW got Felix Diaz for Lofton. Chalk up a win for Kenny on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Although Colon is a little bit better pitcher, Vasquez is younger, cheaper, and is two years away from free agency. He would fit in perfectally behind Buerhle and in front of Garland. Most definately. Colon is the superior pitcher, but at 25 Vazuqez has thrown innings and had sucess. The one thing that worries me is a rather high opponents batting average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 15, 2003 Author Share Posted January 15, 2003 if we get colon and vasquez, i suppose that you would be oppose to any trade on getting rid of colon, lets say for some young stud pit and hitter? You kiddin me? I'd trade Colon for a young stud pitcher and a good hitter in a second...the only problem is is that we wouldn't be able to do that, unless we were, for some unknown reason, out of it at the deadline. Then and only then would a team make that kind of trade. That is the exact kind of thing that the Expos have been trying to do now for about 2 months, and no one has actually pulled off a deal yet. Jas....I wouldn't count on the Mets trading for Colon....because, as you said, they don't have the minor league talent to get it done. They'd have to deal Timo Perez, Jose Reyes and Aaron Heilman to even be considered....and if Phillips is a smart GM, he'd realize that that move would hurt his team more than it would help it....Heilman is a pretty good pitcher and Reyes is a 19 year old SS who's got 25/25 potential....and Timo is a pretty good player in his own right...the Mets would also be spending another $8 million, and in the end, they'd probably get the bad end of the entire deal. If the Red Sox are really out of it, then I'd look for us to make a move for Colon and/or Vazquez. Trade Osuna, Liefer, Paul, Biddle, Stewart, Sanders, and Ginter for Colon and Vazquez....Osuna is basically a salary eater and is a bullpen pitcher for them. Liefer covers their 1B/OF need and is given the chance to start, something he has wanted for a long ass time now. Paul is basically taken off our chest and this then gives them room to trade Barret. Biddle and Stewart are starters that fill in Colon and Vazquez holes in the rotation(and Colon literally left a hole). Sanders and Ginter are throw-ins to sweeten the deal. We get Colon and Vazquez...I shouldn't have to explain what they are used for. About 5 of the 7 guys we traded would have been on our roster this year, but it could have been anywhere from 4-7....we'll say 5. Those include Osuna(who makes about $2.5 mill next year) Liefer(who makes $300,000), Paul($300,000), Biddle($300,000) and Ginter($300,000). That adds on about $11 mill on our salary or so....and if they have to get rid of a combined total of $15 mill, then they can trade Tatis and take on $2 mill of his salary or so. Our rotation is then amongst the best in the league(Colon, Buehrle, Vazquez, Garland, Rauch); our bullpen remains very good(Koch, Wunsch, Glover, Marte, Almonte, and maybe Diaz or someone like that) and our lineup remains virtually the same. We can fill in the bench from there, though we give up mainly pitchers. That move would help the team and not ruin the farm system....I would do it in a second....and I think Montreal would too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 I love your thinking Witesoxfan. I'd even add Brian West to the picture to sweeten the deal. I'd initially have Wright as the #5 with Rauch working out of the bullpen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 if we get colon and vasquez, i suppose that you would be oppose to any trade on getting rid of colon, lets say for some young stud pit and hitter? Why do you taunt me with such ideas!!! Ok here goes...IF somehow we could miraculously pull that off here is what I do...turn around and trade B. Colon and Carlos Lee to the Reds for Adam Dunn and Ryan Dempster (fill in a few prospects where need be). Then we go into the season with: Mark B. Vazquez Garland Dempster Wright/Rauch 2B - Jiminez SS - Valentin DH - Thomas RF - Maggs 1B - Konerko LF - Dunn 3B - Crede CF - Rowand/Borchard C - Olivo We would be unbeatable. Nah. First off, even tho Bartolo weighs about as much as horse, hes still a better pitcher than Dempster and Id say Dunn and Lee are about equal but even if they arent Bartolo is a great pitcher and we shouldnt trade him for a pitcher whos easily weaker. If we get Bartolo and Vasquez, keep em. Wed have: MB Bartolo Vasquez Garland Rauch I say we can get em for Stewart, Borchard, Ginter and two prospects. Thats a totally reasonable deal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 15, 2003 Author Share Posted January 15, 2003 Roman...are you s***tin me? The only way I'd give up Borchard is if we got Colon, Vazquez and Brad Wilkerson....Borchard has that much potential and is worth that much to the organization. If we traded him, that would be the biggest waste of $5.3 million this club ever did waste. Borchard is damn near untouchable....end of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 Roman...are you s***tin me? The only way I'd give up Borchard is if we got Colon, Vazquez and Brad Wilkerson....Borchard has that much potential and is worth that much to the organization. If we traded him, that would be the biggest waste of $5.3 million this club ever did waste. Borchard is damn near untouchable....end of story. borchard should not be in any trade discussion and i will only include him in if we get vlad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 15, 2003 Author Share Posted January 15, 2003 I love your thinking Witesoxfan. I'd even add Brian West to the picture to sweeten the deal. I'd initially have Wright as the #5 with Rauch working out of the bullpen though. Damn....in all the excitement, I forgot about Dan Wright....how the hell do you forget a guy like Dan Wright? Anyways, I'd have those two battle for a spot....and then whoever wins it out of ST is the #5 starter, and the other is a swing man. That way Diaz and all the other important ones stay in the minors. As for becoming a GM someday....what? You didn't ask me that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 I love your thinking Witesoxfan. I'd even add Brian West to the picture to sweeten the deal. I'd initially have Wright as the #5 with Rauch working out of the bullpen though. Damn....in all the excitement, I forgot about Dan Wright....how the hell do you forget a guy like Dan Wright? Anyways, I'd have those two battle for a spot....and then whoever wins it out of ST is the #5 starter, and the other is a swing man. That way Diaz and all the other important ones stay in the minors. As for becoming a GM someday....what? You didn't ask me that? am i the only one who thinks that wright may be a little better than garland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 come on people, there has to be a way to get this deal done even if just for one of them without trading SEVEN players for them Odds are better in our favor if we give up say stewart/diaz and paul for vasquez or colon but remember, it will be cheaper to get colon cuz they need to move his salary, whereas vasquez doesent move that much salary, cuz hes young and cheep which is what the expos want. if they are just shedding salary they wont move vasquez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 15, 2003 Author Share Posted January 15, 2003 I love your thinking Witesoxfan. I'd even add Brian West to the picture to sweeten the deal. I'd initially have Wright as the #5 with Rauch working out of the bullpen though. Damn....in all the excitement, I forgot about Dan Wright....how the hell do you forget a guy like Dan Wright? Anyways, I'd have those two battle for a spot....and then whoever wins it out of ST is the #5 starter, and the other is a swing man. That way Diaz and all the other important ones stay in the minors. As for becoming a GM someday....what? You didn't ask me that? am i the only one who thinks that wright may be a little better than garland? As of right now....I'd call it probably a draw...Wright is more inconsistent, and gives up more homers, but when he has his 'A' game working, he is un-f***in-hittable. However, Garland is more consistent and puts up better numbers....not to mention that he is younger as well. Wright has more endurance and has higher ups and lower downs.....I'd prefer a guy like Garland in my rotation than Wright. As for the seven players we would give up....it would be worth it. We don't get hurt as badly as it would sound(giving up seven players sounds like you are getting f***in hosed) but getting 2 great pitchers and another decent outfielder that covers a possible weakness is worth it. Now with our luck, come Soxfest, KW will announce the signing of Kenny Lofton....shiiiit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 rumors are running wild, has anyone heard that the deal is done? the sox are acquiring vasquez and not colon, this is coming from the score? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 i have not heard it was a done deal as of yet..... of course that doesnt mean it didnt happen.... but i highly doubt that it will................at least not without costing us half the guys we already have with salaries below 1 mil.........lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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