soxfan420 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 doesnt it seem a little drastic to turn your back on them like that??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 espesially after many of the same people refused to give up on Frank after 3 bad years out of 4... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I haven't given up on Koch yet. But when it comes to Konerko, his career season averages end up around .275, 21 HR, 81 RBI. Those are decent numbers, but not good enough for 8 million a year. Plus, he's average at best defensively, clogs the bases terribly, and grounds into more double plays than some entire teams. We have enough slow plodding right-handed hitters in the lineup already, and I would rather have Thomas, Ordonez, or Lee than Konerko. And don't forget that Paul has a tendency to go into prolonged slumps, and has a questionable hip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted December 5, 2003 Author Share Posted December 5, 2003 espesially after many of the same people refused to give up on Frank after 3 bad years out of 4... i was one of them, i must admit, and the only reason i was upset about koch is because i love foulke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Frank Thomas had a decade+ of proven seasons to back him up - Konerko doesn't. He's had two good halves in 5-6 seasons. Honestly, if Paul was making 2-3 million a year, I don't think anyone would say anything about him. However, every dollar counts when we're talking about the Sox. Thanks Jerry. :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 espesially after many of the same people refused to give up on Frank after 3 bad years out of 4... Please show me when did Frank have 3/4 bad years? YOu cannot years when he was injured....obviously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 doesnt it seem a little drastic to turn your back on them like that??? I have not given up on Koch, and frankly I have not given up on PK being a good MLB player either (back to his 2001 form) My position to trade PK is not because I believe he will never be as good as the year before last, but because we need different kinds of players on our roster, and I would rather keep Maggs, CLee and Frank, than keep PK. Now add to the fact that his salary is 8 mill, that is not a luxury we can carry with our payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Please show me when did Frank have 3/4 bad years? YOu cannot years when he was injured....obviously And that is exactly what I mean. Konerko didn't have any injury problems the last two years? Is it the money thing? Is that why everyone made excuses for Frank yet slaughters Konerko? Is he a child molester and I just don't know it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 If only Paulie was more of a "grinder," Kenny would smooch his rear end. I still want to know what Kenny considers a "grinder." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Honestly, if Paul was making 2-3 million a year, I don't think anyone would say anything about him. However, every dollar counts when we're talking abou the Sox. Thanks Jerry. :fyou Exactly, my problem with Konerko isn't production (which was pretty poor by any standards this year). Its that he has done nothing to prove he deserves that kind of money except for one half in 2002. Plus, he is as one dimensional of a baseball player as there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Exactly, my problem with Konerko isn't production (which was pretty poor by any standards this year). Its that he has done nothing to prove he deserves that kind of money except for one half in 2002. Plus, he is as one dimensional of a baseball player as there is. Ditto, sort of. I think PK had personal things going on this year (going by stuff posted here) that would stress most out. I do think he will be back to career or better numbers this up coming season, but Kenny gave him WAY too much money, and this is coming from a huge PK fan. I didn't understand the contract then especially when PK didn't seem to be looking for big money (repeated quotes in the media), unless he was saying one thing to the fans and one thing to KW, which I don't buy. I don't buy that because he seemed truly happy to finally have someplace to play full time baseball, which he didn't have the last two locations he was at, but then again, what do I know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I've always been a big PK fan. He has ALOT to prove to me and all Sox faithful next year though. Sometimes people have fluke good years and sometimes they have fluke bad years. I think Paulie needs to get himself mentally confident at the plate again and everything will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I've always been a big PK fan. He has ALOT to prove to me and all Sox faithful next year though. Sometimes people have fluke good years and sometimes they have fluke bad years. I think Paulie needs to get himself mentally confident at the plate again and everything will be fine. I'll agree to this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Please show me when did Frank have 3/4 bad years? YOu cannot years when he was injured....obviously OK then, I'll give it a try. 1998 - .265 29 109 1999 - .305 15 75 2000 - .325 43 143 2001 - .220 4 20 (injured for most of year....about 140 games) 2002 - .250 28 92 Looks like 4 bad years out of 5, and quite obviously 3 out of 4 if you exclude the injury year if you consider Frank's standards. Had a much better year this past year. Not the same in average(and I don't think it ever will be the same in average), but he still landed 42 in the seats including 2 huge walkoff homers, one against the Twins and one against the Angels(and his game against the Angels he drove in all 4 runs....that was a fun game to watch) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 You ppl disgust me with these talks about Konerko having 2 good halfs in 5-6 years? You dont know baseball... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Why? Because apart from the 20-day streak in the first half, Kock cost us a bunch of games (both directly and indirectly- because we had to use inferior players like White and Adkins in his place) and, more, importantly had NOTHING while doing it: low 90's fastball straight as arrow, inconsistent curveball and very little control. Paulie? As I've said before, even if (big questioin mark!) he gets back to 840 OPS/95 RBI levels, he is not worht 8 MILLION to a money-tight team like the Sox. Not with his speed, defense and DPs. Then add to it the mysterious chronic condition, and I'l take the overrated Odalis Perez at this point. Anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I was never sold on Koch... I hated his numbers... A much higher WHIP than Foulke.. higher ERA... BAA about the same... BUT he nevr gets out of an inning without putting someone on. :fyou BILLY KOCH.... I've always hated you and ALWAYS will. Konerko... was in the tank for the second half of 2002... the first half of 2003... and the last month of 2003.... I think paulie has a world of talent.. But the guy takes the game too seriously.... every at-bat is life and death with him... it's great when you're going good... but paulie could go 3 for 4 with 1HR and 2 doubles. and he'd be stressing about that one he hit to the warning track. I don't think I could stand another season of watching this guy tear himself up inside.... I really like Paulie and think a change of scenery might do him some good... he could really put up some numbers in the NL... he could, however, post another .220 season on the south side with us.. and I don't like paying $8MIL for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 I think with the way this year turned out for both players, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Konerko & Koch come out in 2004 with a renewed sense of purpose and try to put up All-Star like numbers. Unless we're clearing salary altogether, I'm very skeptical of this possible trade for Perez. Lord knows the last thing I would want is to see Todd Ritchie: Part Deux. I'd rather stand pat and take our chances in 2004 with both on board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 I think with the way this year turned out for both players, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Konerko & Koch come out in 2004 with a renewed sense of purpose and try to put up All-Star like numbers. Unless we're clearing salary altogether, I'm very skeptical of this possible trade for Perez. Lord knows the last thing I would want is to see Todd Ritchie: Part Deux. I'd rather stand pat and take our chances in 2004 with both on board. I'd be very damn surprised. Konerko will never be the star we want him to be, and Koch looks like toast. You ask me, and I would be plenty happy to have both of them out of here. Hell, I'd take peanuts for Koch, and Perez for Konerko, add a prospect or two, and I am just fine and dandy with those moves, and if KW wants, he can ship Maggs out too(preferably to Baltimore where he'd be the main guy and we'd get Gibbons and then some others, maybe Matos and Roberts, or maybe we could get lucky and get Julio instead of Roberts) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 People gave up on Koch because he can't get major league hitters out. He is strictly a mop up guy now. Way to go Kenny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 We'd better hope that old Coop can figure out Koch's glitch, or we're in some bigass trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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