Goddbye Robbie Alomar

[BrandoFan]

first off, stop looking at the numbers, because if numbers told the whole story, we would have won the world series this year.

 

Huh? Pass some of that Molto liquer, lol. The numbers are always scapegoated when they don't tell what we want to hear.

 

Sox had a below average offense in 2003 in terms of runs scored despite playing a hitter's park. Mediocre defense (if you get over the deceptive fielding % and start looking at our horrible OF as well as right side of the IF range, overrated catcher, runs-per-errors and other situational defense stats).....Did I mention mediocre bullpen and only solid (not great) starting pitching-- all that despite Detroit, KC, Minny and Cle having some s***ty hitting!

 

Based on the "numbers", Sox finished EXACTLY where they should have and would have been SPANKED in the playoffs.

 

(Please don't point to Marlins because they were the best team in baseball since late May, playing in the best division in baseball no less.)

 

and 300 at bats spread across TWO YEARS, not one, is not enough to see what someone can do, unless that someone wasn't ever considered a prospect or capable enough player at the big league level. Now, there also comes a point where bad play over a long period of time (sporadic play or not) makes good reason to dump a guy, but Harris has yet to reach that.

 

There are MANY, MANY people, even on this board, who would disagree with you. Not me necessarily since I AM pretty high on Harris, but I realize why to most people Harris is just a flashy utility guy. He probably is.

 

Pierre and Castillo are way more talented than Harris when that isn't completely true and can't be true until Harris proves he isn't at their level.

 

See for most people the logic is different: in the last 2 years, 25yo Harris has done nothing to warrant comparison with Pierre or Castillo, and most of Willie's "damage" came when Sox were out of it late in the season's equivalent of garbage time. Besides, Jon Rauch has done nothing that proves he is not at Kevin Brown's level........

 

Nobody really cared when we played Ordonez. Nobody cared when we traded for Konerko, or Marte, or picked up Wunsch. Nobody cared when we had Mark Buehrle start in 2001. Or when we signed Loaiza, or Gordon. If any of these guys were released in the early parts or never picked up, people wouldn't have cared, or worse yet, would have complained when these guys developed into what they have.

 

First of all, you're grossely overrating Wunsht and Konerko. The former allows too many inherited runners to scor and hardly ever pitches while the latter, well, I have explained just what I think of him in another thread. Secondly, for every Ordonez and Marte, there are TEN Leifers, Abbotts, Carusos, Eyers, Glovers, Ginters and Adkinses......Odds, remember? Exceptions do NOT the rule make.

 

It is no different with Harris. He may be bad, he may be good, but he has the skills to be a good player and should at least be given a fair chance to prove himself

.

 

Yes and that's why Spring Training and first couple weeks in April are PUT-UP-OR-SHUT-UP for Willie. If he can't muster 320 OBP or better, it's BENCH time for him.

 

Why not first 6 to 8 weeks? Because it is ESSENTIAL that Sox get off to a HOT start for a change, against some tough competition no less, so that by the ASB, JR will give a go-ahead to spend on impact players at the deadline, while Minnesota and KC start thinking about dumping players instead of seeking Stewart-esque reinforcements........Another 15-25 start may kill the year off.

[quickman]

Since I contributed to this ongoing thread I just have simple thoughts.

 

1) I think Harris sucks. He is a punch and judy hitter and is best fit in a utility and or pinch run mode. Just my opinion.

2) We won't go to the playoffs with this guy as your regular 2 baseman. He isn't long for the job. Just like Graf can't play everyday.

3) I want to win this division, I don't think that paying Robbie 1 million more will srew our chances and f*** up our entire payroll.

 

That's it. No need to keep this alive.

[winninguglyin83]

Robbie's numbers have been in decline for three years.

 

Hard to see him turning it around. It's possible, but, playing the odds, unlikely. And I certainly would never give him a two-year deal.

 

the biggest rap against him in New York was that he didn't play hard after the Mets fell out of contention. If the Sox tank early in the year, I'd had to imagine what people would say about Robbie and KW for signing him if things went south.

 

So I guess that's a back-handed vote for giving Willie Harris a chance to show if he can play.

[Molto]

I agree, winning. that applies to all deals the Sox, or any team, make.

 

It's pretty easy for people to post on a message board and talk about all these signings and trades they should make, and it's even easier for them to criticize those same signings and trades if they don't work out without getting any heat on them for doing so. GMs aren't in those same positions. The moves they make are all on them.

 

We give Alomar $4 mil and then he goes out and bats .240 and everyone will say how stupid we were for giving a guy who was "clearly" past his prime that much money. Playing Harris will receive similar criticism.

 

I will say this. If by not signing Alomar means we will instead be able to sign Sullivan (or other), then this is all good by me. A Scott Sullivan is way more important than an Roberto Alomar when it comes to this particular Sox team.

[Soxfest]

W. Harris is NOT a very good defensive 2nd baseman.

[israel4ever]

Don't forget...Kenny Williams is Jerry Reinsdorf's puppet!!!

He can't go to the bathroom with Jerry's permission!

 

:fthecubs

[BrandoFan]

Robbie's numbers have been in decline for three years

 

Two years. He was fine (which is to say he was one of 10 best players in all of MLB for 3 straight years between 1999 and 2001) until he turned 33 and moved to NY.....

 

This is not a sign of someone declining naturally over 4-5 year period; this was floor dropping underneath Robbie in one swoop motion during the 2001-2002 offseason. Injury, lack of confidence, workout laziness, a little of all three perhaps-- I don't know what caused it, but I am not sure age played as big a role as most imply. Which is not to say he wasn't mediocre as a Sock cuz he was.

 

If Kenny Lofton, Galarraga, Palmeiro, Edgar, Sheffield, Bonds, Sosa, Thomas, Gonzo, Julio Franco, Burks, Bagwell, Walker, Boone and a few other older old-timers could still hack it, I think (a healthy) Robbie might pleasantly suprise a LOT of people next year.

 

Again, it would be foolish to expect 920 OPS/35 steals/GG defense (and I don't)---hell that kind of production is worth at least 8-9 Mill per........but a near 800 OPS/15 steals/reliable D and awesome bunting is something I think Robbie still has in him. Hell, ss unlikely as this scenario may seem, it's STILL MORE likely than gawdawful Harris becoming an every day impact player. That is called reality.

 

Offering Robbie 1 Mill base was a complete joke-- no, an insult very much in step with what this sorry organization is known for throughout baseball. I am not saying lets give him 2 year/8 Mill sweetheart of a deal, let alone take him to arbitration, but at least 2 Mill of UP FRONT dough should have been offered.......If Sox are THAT cheap or THAT desperate to overpay for Colon and/or Sullivan (3.5 Mill a year for a 33yo reliver with a ton of innings in his arm and career ERA of near 4.00 in offense-light NL ? WTF?!), then we are in some deep s*** this season.

 

It's pretty easy for people to post on a message board and talk about all these signings and trades they should make, and it's even easier for them to criticize those same signings and trades if they don't work out without getting any heat on them for doing so. GMs aren't in those same positions. The moves they make are all on them

 

Well, that just breaks my heart, 'rio. I guess I am way out of line in my holding a PROFESSIONAL EXECUTIVE WHO GETS PAID MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO MAKE FAIRLY OBVIOUS DECISIONS to a higher standard of excellence (at this point I'll take "competence").

 

Spare me.