Chisoxfn Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 What the heck are they not offering Sully arbitration. He is a good reliever and now the Sox pen is absolutely bare. I love Marte, but he's the only good reliever out there. Until Koch proves himself again, he's not good, imo. The SOx now have a lot of work to do in that pen if you ask me. Lightenberg, Rhodes, Benitez...those are three guys I'd zero in on as well as Weathers via trade. Having a good bullpen is key. While the Sox have some good bullpen prospects in Majewski, Munoz and Sanders I don't want to see the Sox have to depend on all three of these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 Here is the article from ESPN http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1681025 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Well Sully could have gotten $3M in arbitration, guess KW thinks it's money better spent elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 Well Sully could gave gotten $3M in arbitration, guess KW thinks it's money better spent elsewhere. I guarantee Sully ends up getting 2 mill or less. All I know is the Sox better be planning on adding some good relievers, cause without a good pen in the majors and if they are planning on running Scho or a rookie out there as the 4th and then a rookie as the 5th then they better have a hell of a bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Sully would hav been great in the dpen in 2004 I thought. He lead the Reds 3 years in a row in appearances. And we betta not sign Rick White again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 The winter meetings can't come fast enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 The SOx now have a lot of work to do in that pen if you ask me. Lightenberg, Rhodes, Benitez...those are three guys I'd zero in on as well as Weathers via trade. I agree except for Benitez, he seems like a bit of a head case I would take Worrell instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Watch out for the Wrath of El Cheapo...... You Spend.. But he Doesn't.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I guarantee Sully ends up getting 2 mill or less. All I know is the Sox better be planning on adding some good relievers, cause without a good pen in the majors and if they are planning on running Scho or a rookie out there as the 4th and then a rookie as the 5th then they better have a hell of a bullpen. Now he'll get 2 mill or less, but if the Sox's offered arbitration he would have made 3 mil easy. He made something like 2.7 mil in 2003, he would have gotten a 10% raise easily in arbitration . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Now he'll get 2 mill or less, but if the Sox's offered arbitration he would have made 3 mil easy. He made something like 2.7 mil in 2003, he would have gotten a 10% raise easily in arbitration . I betcha Cincy ends up resigning him. Consider it to be the Danny Graves factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 Now he'll get 2 mill or less, but if the Sox's offered arbitration he would have made 3 mil easy. He made something like 2.7 mil in 2003, he would have gotten a 10% raise easily in arbitration . I figured he'd end up getting 2.3 mill or so and thats only if the Sox didn't come to terms with him. Sully doesn't want to go to a bunch of places, he just wants to have a long term deal. This move makes me sour because Sully is a class guy and a very good pitcher. I understand it if things weren't working well between the agent and the Sox, but I still think the Sox now need to make some moves in regards to the pen. I'm not saying they need to overpay, but they better now be thinking about adressing the pen sooner, rather then later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I figured he'd end up getting 2.3 mill or so and thats only if the Sox didn't come to terms with him. Sully doesn't want to go to a bunch of places, he just wants to have a long term deal. This move makes me sour because Sully is a class guy and a very good pitcher. I understand it if things weren't working well between the agent and the Sox, but I still think the Sox now need to make some moves in regards to the pen. I'm not saying they need to overpay, but they better now be thinking about adressing the pen sooner, rather then later. Don't most of the Sox moves makes us Sour?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Remember, in arbitration the player almost always wins (i think) and they almost always get a raise (given he's successful) and Sully in arbitration was a shoe-in for 3 mil, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 Remember, in arbitration the player almost always wins (i think) and they almost always get a raise (given he's successful) and Sully in arbitration was a shoe-in for 3 mil, at least. I know someone posted a stat but the last few years almost no players have won. A few years ago that was different, but its really been changing and in arbitration you either win or lose, there is no inbetween if I recall. Considering Gordon, Grimsley, Hawkins, and Quantrill's signing all of whom are better pitchers, I don't see how an arbitrator could justify Sully being worth 3 mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bones Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Everyone calm down, I hear Jose Paniagua is available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I know someone posted a stat but the last few years almost no players have won. A few years ago that was different, but its really been changing and in arbitration you either win or lose, there is no inbetween if I recall. Considering Gordon, Grimsley, Hawkins, and Quantrill's signing all of whom are better pitchers, I don't see how an arbitrator could justify Sully being worth 3 mill. That's why GM's and owner hate arbitration it hurts superstar type players (in most cases), but it definity increases the salary of average and above-average players, especially established veterans. Plus, players almost always get a raise as long as their production, Sully made 2.8 mil in 2003 (i checked), he would get a slight raise off that, guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 This move makes me sour because Sully is a class guy and a very good pitcher. I understand it if things weren't working well between the agent and the Sox, but I still think the Sox now need to make some moves in regards to the pen. I'm not saying they need to overpay, but they better now be thinking about adressing the pen sooner, rather then later. I hope Kenny is working the phones as we speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I know someone posted a stat but the last few years almost no players have won. A few years ago that was different, but its really been changing and in arbitration you either win or lose, there is no inbetween if I recall. Considering Gordon, Grimsley, Hawkins, and Quantrill's signing all of whom are better pitchers, I don't see how an arbitrator could justify Sully being worth 3 mill. Jason is right... I can't find a link to back myself up but i remember hearing it was something like 17% of arbitration cases are won... Of course I may have just made that stat up, either way i know it's low, about 1 in 5.... he will make less than all of those other guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Jas I just think it's a case of there being so many decent relievers comparable to Sullivan now available. And that it is very likely that KW will be able to sign them for less than Sully would have earned in arbitration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Now he'll get 2 mill or less, but if the Sox's offered arbitration he would have made 3 mil easy. He made something like 2.7 mil in 2003, he would have gotten a 10% raise easily in arbitration . Doesn't the arbitrator have to decide between the club offer and the player's? I didn't think the arbitrator could pull and number of his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I really don't understand not offering Sullivan Arib. Aren't they planning on spending about that much money in the pen anyway? Why not get one of the most durable and dependable guys around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 The rate they are going, are we going to have a full team by spring training? I can't believe they arem't offering arbitration to Sullivan and Everret. This offseason just keeps getting better and better for Sox fans, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 The rate they are going, are we going to have a full team by spring training? I can't believe they arem't offering arbitration to Sullivan and Everret. This offseason just keeps getting better and better for Sox fans, doesn't it? Everett wasn't a big surprise. They could have been on the hook for 7 or 8 million dollars, which there is no way that is even close to feasable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Doesn't the arbitrator have to decide between the club offer and the player's? I didn't think the arbitrator could pull and number of his own. Yes, you are correct. It is one or the other. Remember, in arbitration the player almost always wins (i think) and they almost always get a raise (given he's successful) and Sully in arbitration was a shoe-in for 3 mil, at least. Jason and Cheat are correct... The past few years the owners have won something like 11 of 13 cases. The number of players actually going to arbitration is very low because no one wants to go through the process. The players generally do get a raise in arbitration (most clubs aren't dumb enough to offer up a number that would equate to a paycut. If Everett went to arb this year, he would likely get between $9 and $10 million based on his season last year. If the Sox didn't feel they were close to a multi-year deal with Sullivan, then they had to let him go. They don't have the luxury of being on the hook for $3 million or more for a reliever unless they move salary somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Hopefully, they are setting themselves up to try and sign Every day Eddie. That would be the only way I would accept denying Sully arbitration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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