Mr. Showtime Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Remember, Hawk promised us that KW was gonna make a "mind blowing trade." Any day, KW... Oh really? Hawk said at the deadline last year, Kenny might make one at the deadline last year. When they we're talking to the A's. So if that's what your talking about then ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 WATCH THE SOX TRADE MAGGS AND SOMEBODY ELSE IN A BLOCKBUSTER DEAL THAT BRINGS SOMEBODY IN FOR ONLY 1 YEAR AND THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENED WITH GOO HAPPEN WITH HIM. GET SOMEBODY LONG TERM! The Sox will trade Maggs for Jon Adkins, Keith Heberling and Ken Vining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Sorry Vince, but thats exactly mediocre. Mediocrity is being lulled in the middle and thats exactly what the Sox have done. I give them credit for this past season, but I also believe they buried their own graves by offering some stupid ass contracts and now they have no payroll flexibility. A team can compete at 60 mill, but to do so they can't be attached to certain players because once people want big pay days, you have to be the very best, otherwise its not worth it and you should get quality cheap players in return and re-invest some money on some free agents. And the Sox have been mediocre although by getting Colon, Koch, Everett, Sully, Alomar they were trying to cure those woes...but it didn't happen, possibly because they stuck with JM too long, maybe it was never JM's fault and they just had crap chemistry and players that had no desire. Jas, finishing 1st once, 2nd 4 years and 3rd once in 6 years is not the definition of mediocre. As you know I travel 205 miles one way to get to my place to USCF. I attend some 30 games a season and have the split seasons tickets plan. I yield to no one in my being a true fan, no one. The only thing I can demand of the Sox is that they be competitive. There are a lotof teams out there who have not had close the the success we have had. In the past 4 seasons we had one division championship, had an injury marred season and still finished 2nd, came back and had a decent season, and competed until mid September in the 4th. That by definition is not medicore. It is by definition competitive. I have had many wonderful experiences at USCF. I have shared good times with family and friends. I have had a lot of fun at SoxFests. I have met a lot of wonderful people (and a very few deeply disappointing people). If the Sox never win a world series in my lifetime will my life be any less meaningful? Ask the Bulls fans here - did their lives magically change when 6 NBA championships were won? Or is it that was last decade's news and what have you done for me lately? What a person truly gets out of being a fan of anything matches one's realism. I am a fan of the Sox and love the Sox and have gotten more out of being a Sox fan than I could put back. What that is are indelible memorioes and experiences that I could have gottn no other way. And the Sox have been competitive. Would you rather have the Brewers' record the last 6 years? Or the Pirates'? Or the Royals'? Or the Expo's? Or the Phil's? Or Detroit's? Or Texas? Or even the Cubs? A lot of people have no idea what mediocre is and an incredible sense of self-entitlement. As someone pointed out recently, the same fans who b**** because they can't sit in a seat they did not pay for and are mad because they have to sit in the seat they did pay for and won't spend an extra $6 want Sox ownership to spend tens of millions - a tad hypocritical. Bart Giamatti said that baseball is designed to break your heart. If people can't take the fact that every team but one each year ends up as a "loser" and some teams, not just us, have gone very long times without ending as a "winner" one better have a good grip on their own self about what being a winner and a loser is all about. A lot of the - how can I say, whiners who think they are owed something - would never have survived the 1970 season. Or anything from 1968 through 1983. Or the late 80s. My love and my joy in the Sox was not less in 1970 than it was in 2000. I'd prefer a 2000 finish to a 1970 finish every time. But whatever happens, my inner self knows that this is sport, an entertainment, and if I let my blood pressure and life get wrecked by an entertainment, then it is not the team but me who is the loser. My thrill at being with friends or family when the Home Run of the Century is played when I am sitting (actually, at that point, standing and clapping) in my seats - that is a rush that make my being there with those I care for, that makes me a winner. Regardless of anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Bart Giamatti said that baseball is designed to break your heart George Will said that Giamantti understood the inner Greek tragedy of baseball better than anyone. Now I understand what he meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Looking at this thing with the emotions of a fan, but trying to use logic (what a concept, eh?), I feel like the Sox can be qualified as being both competitive and mediocre. I refer to cwsox's posts as my basis for saying they are competitive. They have a legitimate chance of making the playoffs every season. Again referring to cwsox's post, he lists several teams that have extended runs of poor records. The Sox are certainly not in that group. Then you have the teams that have had, generally, success over the years. Seattle, Oakland, Yanks, Boston, Atlanta, Giants, D-Backs and the Fish ( the last two have won WS, so that, to me, qualifies them). The Sox are not in this group either. We are basically in the middle of the pack, outside the context of the AL Central and looking at MLB overall. During the JM regime, we just a few games over .500 and that defines mediocrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 To Sox r Us (and all the other Sox apologists)! If you went to a restaurant and the food/service was subpar, would you keep going there? What if the restaurant management said to you that "we'll improve on our food/service if/when you come to eat more frequently, and spend more money here". Would you continue to eat there? Would you then get more people to eat there so management MIGHT improve things? HELL F***KING NO!!! That is what the Sox have been doing to it's fans for the last 10+ years...to paraphrase, "we know the Sox are average at best and noncompetitive, but if you come out to the park and spend more of your hard earned money, and if lots of people do the same...maybe then we'll TRY to get better." It's bulls***, and we've been eating it long enough! (By the way I have been going to between 15-20 games per year on average, so I'm guilty of being a chump as well!) Fans need to DEMAND that Reinsdorf sell the team! The best way to do that is by not showing up! IF (when) the Sox do nothing at the Winter Meetings, I will not go back to The Cell. Just remember the BIGGEST lie Jerry has ever hoisted on the Sox fans, "I would trade all six of the Bulls championships for one Sox World Series Championship." What a crock! In your example case, you do have other restaurants to go to.....our choice is the Cubs. Makes sense? Sports is like politics in that if you love a team (or a party's agenda) you can never be pursuaded to stop doing it. It would mean lowering ourselves in our own eyes (say if we went to Cubs games instead) And one more thing, if you stop going to the restaurant, it will run of business and fold up. Most likely, with the way baseball is, 10 teams will fold before ours, and if jerry does get fed up, he may move before he sells. And like cwsox said, not going to games is voting to move this team out of here....I do not want that. joshPR: You say JR is making money and that we had 30000 fans last year....that is BS.....except for half nights, no one showed up on any other night.....go look at the attendance log, you will get a clue on reality. Against Boston and Minnesota (two games I went to), there were not more than 22000 fans each. AND WE WERE IN THE THICK OF A PENNANT RACE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 During the JM regime, we just a few games over .500 and that defines mediocrity. I hate to quibble with a good friend after such a fine post especially but what that defines is: average. Very average on the bell curve, very average. But it is not mediocre. We have been a mid pack, average-slightly better than average. Given where we have been in other time periods, a real improvement. And I'd just as soon hold here as slip. But then again with all of us I'd just as soon take it to the next level. We thought that was going to happen immediately after 2000, hence the extreme disappointment out of proportion to the team's record. This is an art, howver , not a science, and an art that depends on the interactions of 30+ plus at any one time - 25 players, manager, coaches, GM. If this were a science, everyone would be at the next level. It is an art. We hold on and hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 I hate to quibble with a good friend after such a fine post especially but what that defines is: average. Very average on the bell curve, very average. But it is not mediocre. We have been a mid pack, average-slightly better than average. Given where we have been in other time periods, a real improvement. And I'd just as soon hold here as slip. But then again with all of us I'd just as soon take it to the next level. We thought that was going to happen immediately after 2000, hence the extreme disappointment out of proportion to the team's record. This is an art, howver , not a science, and an art that depends on the interactions of 30+ plus at any one time - 25 players, manager, coaches, GM. If this were a science, everyone would be at the next level. It is an art. We hold on and hope for the best. Average is pretty mediocre in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Average is pretty mediocre in my opinion. How can I say - if you have a body part that is average in size, would you characterize it as 1. mediocre 2. average 3. excellent As you define your own body part... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 How can I say - if you have a body part that is average in size, would you characterize it as 1. mediocre 2. average 3. excellent As you define your own body part... LMAO ... I see your point, but I don't think we were talking about body parts. However, since you took that angle .... I would say that an average performance could easily be considered a mediocre performance. And that qualifies as this team's performance over the past few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 My friend, we then must cheerfuylly agree to define these words differently - so be it! Always enjoy your posts - take care! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 My friend, we then must cheerfuylly agree to define these words differently - so be it! Always enjoy your posts - take care! Likewise. And as always .... :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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