What do the Sox have to show for

[BrandoFan]

I think I'll have to agree to disagree on who was more valuable to the Marlins in the post-season.  I'll certainly agree with you that I-ROD was the Marlins regular season MVP.  What you've indicated in his last few games as a Marlin was more of the same he had done for the better half of the 2nd half of 2003.  He was arguably the best clutch-hitter in the NL the 2nd half.

 

But you simply can not measure raw stats in the post-season.  Dominance is in a class of it's own.  Yes I-ROD had some key hits in both the SF, & CHI series.  But  they were not low scoring hits.  In other words, the ball was flying off the bat.  That Zambrano hit was a thing of beauty.  Probably less than 5% of MLB players would have hit that pitch as well as I-ROD did.  But Zamby was showing signs of cracking, & the game got out of hand soon after.

 

The games where Beckett dominated, there was nothing the sCrUBS or Yanks could do.  That's why I consider him the Marlins post-season MVP.  If the rumors are true, & the Marlins are now in the running for Vladdy then they might very well be the NL favorites to get there again.   Grant it, it remains to be seen that Beckett can perform in the regular season like he did down the stretch.  But if you look over the history of dominating post-season pitchers they usually continue their success.

 

Perhaps the better question to ask is would Beckett be the Marlins franchise player?

Given his age & post-season success I would say there should be no doubt.

 

I'm still waiting for the day the SOX draft a dominator.

I missed the reply, JAUGGS........

 

I agree I am over-simplifying it a little, BUT without PUDGE they lose BOTH game 3 AND 4 in NLDS, which means THEY ARE OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS.......and even if they DO manage to win one of those games by a miracle, they have Jason Schmidt licking his chops in Game 5 in San Francisco.....

 

You also miss the fact that without Pudge's neautiful swing on Zambrano's tough tubo-sinker to bring the Marlins BACK into the GAME 1 (up until that point Marlins seemed so tentative and Zambrano getting out of jams with uncanny ease as he did throughout the year) and another huge late-inning 2 out hit to send the game into EI, Cubs BLOW the Marlins out.....with Beckett on the other hand giving up a TON of hard outs in ADDITION to 6 ER in 6 inn (ERA of 9.00)........so basically Marlins GET SWEPT in NLCS and Beckett never has a CHANCE to pitch a masterful Game 5. I am not even gonna mention Pudge's HUGE 2-out hit in Game 3 to chase off Kerry Wood, only Simon's hit stood in a way of ANOTHER I-Rod GW'er...........And the funniest part is, neither Giants OR the Cubs had to PITCH to Pudge in most of those situations, especially with Derek Lee, Encarnacion and Alex Gonzalez being SO BAD at the time.

 

Again, this is just what he did with his bat. The way he shut down the running game (thusly making it easier on his pitchers, Beckett included), especially Kenny Lofton who absolutely WORE OUT Javy Lopez and the Brave in partucular, also deserves big mention. Even the NLDS-clinching COLLISION at the plate-- do you know how many times I've seen Brooks Fordyce, Mark Johnson and Miguel Olivo blow this seemingly routine play? Hell, Javy Lopez himself had blown TWO tags at home plate in ONE inning of Game 2 of NLDS.....

 

And who's to say Pudge did not play a big role in calming down 20-yo Miguel Cabrera and maybe even Beckett himself.

 

When you take the situational as well as SEQUENTIAL aspect of it (one event led to another, not occured in a vacuum state on the stat page), as good as Beckett was, WITHOUT PUDGE MARLINS DON'T EVEN COME CLOSE TO MAKING IT TO THE WORLD SERIES IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

Again, I will agree with you that from Game 7 of NLCS on, Beckett WAS indeed more valuable than I-Rod who didn't have a particularly good World Series. I also agree Pudge was THE best clutch hitter in the majors, in a pitcher's park no less, in the second half.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Agreed. No one guy is going to carry a team through the post-season. A team needs heroics & Pudge supplied more than any other player on the Marlins leading up to game 5 of the NLDS. From there on Beckett surpassed heroics & became legendary.

 

Looking forward though the Marlins had to make a choice. The gave Pudge a reasonable offer of 24/2 & he declined it. The franchise player has to remain Beckett.

 

No team on a modest payroll will ever get that far w/out heroes for a season.

If you look at the Angels, Anderson & the F-ROD played that role.

 

I think the SOX have potential heroes in Lee, Beurhle, Garland, & Marte.

Thomas would probably make that list, but his post-season show in his career has not been note-worthy. I suppose the potential is still there though.

That's why I consider these 5 guys (throw in Crede) as keepers for the SOX.

[BrandoFan]

If you look at the Angels, Anderson & the F-ROD played that role.

 

Man would I love to see Garret Anderson on the SouthSide in the next 2-3 years or what! He's been the most underrated player in baseball in the last 2 years, he simply snuck up on everybody the same way his ex-teammate Jim Edmonds did after moving to NL...

[Harry Chappas]

My point is that we have NOTHING to show for any of these guys, except -- laugh -- more payroll flexibililty for an owner who won't remove his wallet at gunpoint.

 

We'll get the draft picks -- so we can draft more guys who will leave at the first opportunity.

 

 

Or, like Ring and Hummel, will be traded.

 

Tough to be too pumped these days

Other then Colon who really gives a s***. I was reading about the stud Dodger centerfielder, you know the guy to save the day in centerfield for whomever in the upcoming year or so. Well he struck out 130 times in A and AA ball. Imagine what he will do in the majors. Just about every young player has risk involved. If you can get proven ML players in return it is worth it. Our entire outfield, thirdbasemen, possibly second baseman, opening day starter, catcher and DH will all have spent time our ML system, with 6 of them being drafted. Not sure what your point is other than to b**** and moan for the sake of b****ing and moaning. I would even go into our rotation. Where is Matt Guerrier on your list, how about Chris Singleton, Mark Johnson, Sean Lowe, Mike Caruso, Bob Howry, James Baldwin?