1549 Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Never have I experienced such a gloomy offseason. Granted, last offseason we got Bartolo, the year before we got Ritchie, before that Wells. Perhaps we were spoiled and forgot that being a sox fan includes bitter disappointment. All I am reading is f*** kenny, f*** jr. Well, my opinion is shut the f*** up. JR is not a great owner. He doesn't throw himself into this franchise, and he often appears selfish. But look at what he HAS done. Fans complained about the state of the stadium, look at all the renovations. A new manager was needed, he brought it one with some energy to spark this franchise. Granted, what we want to see is a winning club. White Sox fans only show when the team wins (unlike the drunkards at wrigley), so it would be wise if JR spent the money. But why don't we just wait and see what happens before people start picking new teams. This has been my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 If you are a owner, you have to think fans first. Therefore, spend extra money and get a better team, fans will come. They came during August and September last year becasue of a winning team. Better team=more attendance=more money=Bigger paycheck for JR, why doesn't he see the sense in this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted December 10, 2003 Author Share Posted December 10, 2003 If you are a owner, you have to think fans first. Therefore, spend extra money and get a better team, fans will come. They came during August and September last year becasue of a winning team. Better team=more attendance=more money=Bigger paycheck for JR, why doesn't he see the sense in this? No doubt. Sox fans never come when the team sucks. We appreciate good baseball, and loathe poor baseball. I am simply stating that we shouldn't be out trying to assasinate JR, when he is trying to strengthen this franchise. (An ace would be a lot more useful than a new ud though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Sox fans have never forgiven JR for 1994 -- and never will until we have a World Series team. Plus, we all know that with Prior, Wood, Patterson, Hawkins, Lee and the others we're all looking at another summer of having the CUBS smashed into our faces. it's not a pleasant prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted December 10, 2003 Author Share Posted December 10, 2003 Sox fans have never forgiven JR for 1994 -- and never will until we have a World Series team. Plus, we all know that with Prior, Wood, Patterson, Hawkins, Lee and the others we're all looking at another summer of having the CUBS smashed into our faces. it's not a pleasant prospect. I have forgiven him, I forgave him the day Albert Belle put on a Sox uniform. I hate when baseball turns political, but when he forked over the money to Belle, it proved to me that he wanted to win. I hate the cubs, but I have to say, the sox sucked in the 80's (after 83 that is), and the cubs had two magical seasons, and yet the sox survived. The compete with the cubs mindset is illogical when we have a division within our grasps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Never have I experienced such a gloomy offseason. Granted, last offseason we got Bartolo, the year before we got Ritchie, before that Wells. Didn't get Colon til January, so chances are you were depressed last December too. Let's all just wait this out and see what happens ( or doesn't happen ) before we go jumping off bridges... For the record, I was FAR more depressed when the Sox picked up that fat jackass Wells. This is NOT revisionist history - I HATED that lazy asshole before he jerked the Sox around, WHILE he did and AFTER he did. He is a waste of a lot of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Never have I experienced such a gloomy offseason. Granted, last offseason we got Bartolo, the year before we got Ritchie, before that Wells. Perhaps we were spoiled and forgot that being a sox fan includes bitter disappointment. All I am reading is f*** kenny, f*** jr. Well, my opinion is shut the f*** up. JR is not a great owner. He doesn't throw himself into this franchise, and he often appears selfish. But look at what he HAS done. Fans complained about the state of the stadium, look at all the renovations. A new manager was needed, he brought it one with some energy to spark this franchise. Granted, what we want to see is a winning club. White Sox fans only show when the team wins (unlike the drunkards at wrigley), so it would be wise if JR spent the money. But why don't we just wait and see what happens before people start picking new teams. This has been my opinion. Jr said he would trade all Bulls titles for 1 Sox title he said it, nobody broke his arm. JR as a owner should not make a comment like that and RAISE ticket prices again this year and whine about a budget, sorry JR had to pay rent at the cell this year for the first time in years. :fyou JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 I have forgiven him, I forgave him the day Albert Belle put on a Sox uniform. I hate when baseball turns political, but when he forked over the money to Belle, it proved to me that he wanted to win. I remember that well, that's when he said he doesn't pay for pitching and didn't sign Clemens. I've hated his guts ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Didn't get Colon til January, so chances are you were depressed last December too. Let's all just wait this out and see what happens ( or doesn't happen ) before we go jumping off bridges... But rumors were swirling as early as October that KW was in the hunt, plus we had alot of payroll space freed up. There's nothing like that this yr and we're faced with the irony off dumping our best player to have a chance at getting better. Last yr was a much easier off season. I have no intention of jumping off any bridges but if JR is wanting to play Clarence............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 But rumors were swirling as early as October that KW was in the hunt, plus we had alot of payroll space freed up. There's nothing like that this yr and we're faced with the irony off dumping our best player to have a chance at getting better. Last yr was a much easier off season. I have no intention of jumping off any bridges but if JR is wanting to play Clarence............. At the same time a lot of people doubted those rumors. I think the least we can do is give the Sox time to put things together. If the season starts and they still look like this, then I definately think there is a lot to be concerned with. I'm gonna continue to hope cause I just can't see KW settling with mediocre. He may make a ton of moves and it turns out the team is mediocre, but he has one goal and you can see that he wants to see the Sox win the series and I'm talking about the White Sox not Red Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 At the same time a lot of people doubted those rumors. I think the least we can do is give the Sox time to put things together. If the season starts and they still look like this, then I definately think there is a lot to be concerned with. I'm gonna continue to hope cause I just can't see KW settling with mediocre. He may make a ton of moves and it turns out the team is mediocre, but he has one goal and you can see that he wants to see the Sox win the series and I'm talking about the White Sox not Red Sox But last yr the Colon trade was out there from the start, everybody knew it and it was just a matter of waiting. This yr Schilling and Vazquez are already gone, what's left out to trade? I can live with the youth movement lineup and waiting to fill out the pen but neither of those can be addressed to the top of the rotation has been set. There's the anxiety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Well the Konerko/Perez trade has been out there from the start, although that may or may not happen and its definately not as big as getting Colon, but everything helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted December 10, 2003 Author Share Posted December 10, 2003 I remember that well, that's when he said he doesn't pay for pitching and didn't sign Clemens. I've hated his guts ever since. Actually he did pay for pitching (navarro ) Hindsight is 20/20. Clemens was coming off of a horrid year, it looked like his best days were behind him. Navarro was coming off of a 17 win season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 But look at what he HAS done. Fans complained about the state of the stadium, look at all the renovations. Reinsdorf's not paying for any of this, the USCF naming deal is. That's why it's happening while the on-field improvements that would have to come out of Reinsdorf's pockets are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 1. Sox fans have never forgiven JR for 1994 -- 2. and never will until we have a World Series team. 3. Plus, we all know that with Prior, Wood, Patterson, Hawkins, Lee and the others we're all looking at another summer of having the CUBS smashed into our faces. 1. Agree 2. Disagree - will still never be forgiven 3. So? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 I remember that well, that's when he said he doesn't pay for pitching and didn't sign Clemens. I've hated his guts ever since. Your hate is misguided (you really hate? Really hate? Shouldn't an emotion like hate be reserved for poverty, hunger, children dying in war or of malnutrition?) JR would have signed Clemens. The person who made that call was Schueler, on the grounds that Clemens was washed up and Navarro had the better future. Had Schueler recommended and signed Clemens, JR would have paid for Clemens. Simple facts. Back to the hatefest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Well, my opinion is shut the f*** up. Agreed In the naming right deal, JR extended the Sox lease at USCF until 2022 or something like that. Which means JR, when he didn't have to, ensured by contract the Sox will stay in Chicago long after he is dead. As oft as we have almost lost the franchise, I thank JR greatly for that as much as I am not a JR fan. And for the next 12 year old who says "MLB will never let the Sox move" try telling that to the fans of the Boston Braves, Milwaukee Braves, Seattle Pilots, Washington Senators - both teams, Philly As, KC As, Brooklyn Dodgers, NY Giants, and need I go on? And we can discuss it at an NFL game in LA, maybe some LA team (the LA Rams, maybe) hosting the Chicago Cardinals. And then we can fly back to Chicago to see our NBA team, the Zephyr Jets - oh wait, they are now the Balitomore Bullets - oh wait, they now play in DC - The criticism of JR would be something one could listen to if it were fair and objective and not such knee jerk self entitlement one sided whining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 The criticism of JR would be something one could listen to if it were fair and objective and not such knee jerk self entitlement one sided whining. I don't know about knee-jerk entitlement or one-sided whining. I do know that Reinsdorf's inability/refusal to spend is making it hard to put together anything resembling a competitive team. Credit where it is due, and I'm thankful for 20 more years of the Sox in Chicago and Reisdorf's role in it. I just don't want it to be 20 years of this. I'm thankful Reinsdorf made at least an apparent effort to open the wallet to resign Colon (incentive-based and/or deferred $ inflating the figure notwithstanding), but very angry at his reluctance to invest that same $12 million we would have spent on him this year into payroll that's sorely needed elsewhere. I WAS thankful that Reinsdorf indicated a desire (through KW) at the end of last season to do what he reasonably could to keep as many pending FA's on the team. But I'm not thankful for what was apparently just simple lip service, as we are 0 for 6 in that regard. Gordon, Robbie, Carl, Sullivan, Colon, and (soon), Tony are gone. We all knew some of them would have to go, but this is nuts for a franchise with the stated objective of keeping the roster as intact as possible. When you add in the continued uncertainty of possibly having to move Lee or Magglio, having to maybe live with Koch and Pauly, the need for at least 1 proven starter and the need to restock the pen, there is actually very little of the puzzle that is in place. Yes, it will start happening this weekend in New Orleans and in the weeks to follow. But even the most optimistic of us are hard pressed at this stage to imagine this year's model being as strong (at least on paper) as last year's. It doesn't mean we won't faithfully live and die with the team as always. We're just looking for something to get us through the winter doldrums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 FSJ, you are always, have always been, fair in your comments, objective as a fan can be, which is why you are respected and listened to (at least by me ). Your method of critique - being fair - seeing all sides - that is good analysis, whether one agrees or not, and I for one appreciate you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 You forgave him when he signed Belle? No disrespect, but Belle was a disaster. We never seem to sign the right guys. You folks lit into me last year but I still wish we'd signed Thome. Hell right now I wish we had Miles with Alomar leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 I really think patience is needed here folks. The team, as it stands right now, is not the one that will take the field opening day. I think the misguided hope that Colon would resign kept the Sox from pulling the trigger on other possible moves, but there will be some moves and acquisitions forthcoming, I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 You forgave him when he signed Belle? No disrespect, but Belle was a disaster. We never seem to sign the right guys. You folks lit into me last year but I still wish we'd signed Thome. Hell right now I wish we had Miles with Alomar leaving. The guy set all kinds of team records for offense. How is that a disaster? If only we could have more disasters like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 I am hoping to go into this season with all the pessimism I can muster. I'm hoping to set my sights on breaking the all time loss record. I'm trying to set my frame of mind that this will be the all time worse baseball team ever put on a field. With that frame of mind, the season will not dissapoint and may even be fun. I remember the pain of getting swept in the opening series after practicly booking a flight for post season play. Not this year. The best we can finish is 5th, possibly 4th if the Tigers lose a couple of their top players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Your hate is misguided (you really hate? Really hate? Shouldn't an emotion like hate be reserved for poverty, hunger, children dying in war or of malnutrition?) JR would have signed Clemens. The person who made that call was Schueler, on the grounds that Clemens was washed up and Navarro had the better future. Had Schueler recommned and signed Clemens, JR would have paid for Clemens. Simple facts. Back to the hatefest. Nice to see people still can keep the dream alive. Dream on!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 You forgave him when he signed Belle? No disrespect, but Belle was a disaster. We never seem to sign the right guys. You folks lit into me last year but I still wish we'd signed Thome. Hell right now I wish we had Miles with Alomar leaving. Disaster....?? Batting Year Team Games At Bats Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS 1997 CHA 161 634 90 174 45 1 30 116 53 105 4 4 0.274 0.332 0.491 0.823 1998 CHA 163 609 113 200 48 2 49 152 81 84 6 4 0.328 0.399 0.655 1.055 Career 1539 5853 974 1726 389 21 381 1239 683 961 88 41 0.295 0.369 0.564 0.933 Fielding Year Team POS G GS INN PO TC A E DP FPCT 1997 CHA LF 154 154 1333 350 361 1 10 0 0.972 1998 CHA LF 159 159 1365 315 334 11 8 3 0.976 Career 644 644 5155 1160 1227 38 29 7 0.976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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