whitesoxfan99 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Good move, if anything it just shows players that they will be rewarded for good performance. This is a fair contract for both parties, nothing to get really excited about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I am so glad to hear this. Now let's hope a few more move are to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxrd5 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!! I am very excited about this deal...at least we know of one player that will be on this team for at least the next three seasons! Go Sox! Good to see something get done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest williestokes Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 If he gets back to his old form, Ill say he more than deserves it. But if his ERA is even 4.14, Im not going to be happy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I may have overracted, I should have looked it was backloaded..... true....altho: Pettite has been one of the most ovepaid players in the 21th century, has a career ERA of about 4.00. BUT...Yankees have the MONEY and his POSTSEASON effectiveness alone makes him worthwhile to them. Sox and Burhle are in a totally different situation. Also, Pettite has a better cutter, four-seamer and change than Burhle. Not by a lot, but the difference is there. Moyer is a 4.10 career ERA pitcher, nothing remotely special. Maddux? You picked a truly unique example and there is about 1 in 5 chance Mark will ever come close to being what Maddux was before turning 35......any more than Colon being what Clemens was before he turned 35. Mark doesn't have Maddux's control. Mark doesn't have Maddux's great mind and deceptive motion. His change is also not as good and there is less movement on his pitches. When his cutter betrays Mark, he is f***ED. His 3.20 ERA days are OVER, and a mid-FOUR ERA pitcher is not worth 6 mill a year when your payroll is barely 50. Again, not nearly as stupid as Colon signing would be, but I on the fence on it. Hopefully Mark will prove me wrong in 2004 by going 20-7 with a 3.40 ERA. UNlikely tho........even considering how s***ty our ALC opoonents are offensively. I don't think that Pettitte is better at all. You subtract the teams he's had around him,and I think they're about even. I'd take a pitcher with a career 4.00 ERA in the AL for 6 million a year, provided he stays relatively consistent(Buehrle has) and healthy(again, Buehrle has so far) I think Mark has plenty of time to learn some of the things that made guys like Maddux so good. He may not learn them all, and he may not be quite as good at them, but I think you're being a bit of a poessimist by saying that when his cutter's off he sucks, and that he'll be a career 4.50 ERA pitcher. I also don't think a 4.50 career ERA is that bad. Worth $6 mil? No, but in the AL these days, that's not half bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 year, provided he stays relatively consistent(Buehrle has) His numbers, peripherals have been slipping every year, and hitters were no where NEAR as surprised at his stuff as they were back in 2001. The were laying off his slider and change more and more while crushing his hanging curve. His command, cutter and fielding are still good enough to mantain and 4.20 ERA, but in order to come back into mid-3.00 ERA (the only way Burhle is a worth 6 Mill as far as Sox go) territory is if he makes a BIG adjustment, with his curve and change becoming more effective. Who knows, but I am not excastaic one bit. The only thing that is good is that he only makes 3.75 in 2004 which is about 500K-1000K less than he would have gotten in arbitration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 His numbers, peripherals have been slipping every year, and hitters were no where NEAR as surprised at his stuff as they were back in 2001. The were laying off his slider and change more and more while crushing his hanging curve. His command, cutter and fielding are still good enough to mantain and 4.20 ERA, but in order to come back into mid-3.00 ERA (the only way Burhle is a worth 6 Mill as far as Sox go) territory is if he makes a BIG adjustment, with his curve and change becoming more effective. Who knows, but I am not excastaic one bit. The only thing that is good is that he only makes 3.75 in 2004 which is about 500K-1000K less than he would have gotten in arbitration You may be right, but if Buerhle was pitching consistently with a low 3.xx ERA, teams would be ready to give him much more than 6 million a year. JR and KW are rolling the dice with him--they have to. Let's hope they're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 In year three of this deal Konerko and Thomas will both be gone and with them $15M in payroll. This deal puts the Sox in a good light, finally, going into the wekend. I get the feeling they will be coming home with Ponson or Maddux. This deal allows some fixed cost to be in place going into the meeting. Come on Kenny let your heair down and get some balls. Millwood/Madux and Ponson and I renew the tix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 In year three of this deal Konerko and Thomas will both be gone and with them $15M in payroll. This deal puts the Sox in a good light, finally, going into the wekend. I get the feeling they will be coming home with Ponson or Maddux. This deal allows some fixed cost to be in place going into the meeting. Come on Kenny let your heair down and get some balls. Millwood/Madux and Ponson and I renew the tix. As long as they don't give Millwood anything close to what Boras is asking. Maddux is old, and moving him to the offensively superior AL might turn him into the 2003 version of Kevin Appier Ponson?--slightly torn right labrum. I still think he's scary, because if it rips, he's gone for possibly 3 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 You may be right, And I concede you may be right as well. This is not a clear cut issue (unlike say paying Gordon and Colon what they got), and I definately overracted in the thread title. 2004 will decide which one of us is right. but if Buerhle was pitching consistently with a low 3.xx ERA, teams would be ready to give him much more than 6 million a year. Fist of all, I was talking about MID-3.00 ERA. Secondly, you do realize that Sox CANNOT GET INVOLVED IN BIDDING WAR? In some bizzaro world (no doubt run by Bid Selig), Colon may indeed be worth 13 Mill over 4 years. To Sox he isn't. Similarly, now a 6 Mill a year contract forces Mark to become a mid-3.00 ERA pitcher. He can pull it off, but I can certainly see why he might not be able to, in which case Sox are THAT much more f***ed in terms of making postseason in 2004. JR and KW are rolling the dice with him--they have to. Let's hope they're right JR alienatted fans with his cheap approach, and all these small market money s*** issues are partly because of him.....While KW, in turn, made STUPID signing such as Ritchie, Konerko, Wells, Koch, Valentin which put the Sox in an even BIGGER hole, forcing us to literally WATCH every cent we spend from now on...........If Mark doesn't come through, it's no longer just a performance issue as you're now paying him SERIOUS money than could have been spent fixing problems elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 And I concede you may be right as well. This is not a clear cut issue (unlike say paying Gordon and Colon what they got), and I definately overracted in the thread title. 2004 will decide which one of us is right. Fist of all, I was talking about MID-3.00 ERA. Secondly, you do realize that Sox CANNOT GET INVOLVED IN BIDDING WAR? In some bizzaro world (no doubt run by Bid Selig), Colon may indeed be worth. To Sox he isn't. Similarly, now a 6 Mill a year contract forces Mark to become a mid-3.00 ERA pitcher. He can pull it off, but I can certainly see why he might not be able to, in which case Sox are THAT much more f***ed in terms of making postseason in 2004. JR alienatted fans with his cheap approach, and all these small market money s*** is partly because of him.....While KW, in turn, made STUPID signing such as Ritchie, Konerko, Wells, Koch, Valentin which put the Sox in an even BIGGER hole, forcing us to literally WATCH every cent we spend from now on...........If Mark doesn't come through, it no longer just a performance issue as you're not paying him SERIOUS money than could have been spent fixing problems elsewhere. And I concede you may be right as well. This is not a clear cut issue (unlike say paying Gordon and Colon what they got), and I definately overracted in the thread title. 2004 will decide which one of us is right. **WORD TO YOUR MOTHER Fist of all, I was talking about MID-3.00 ERA. Secondly, you do realize that Sox CANNOT GET INVOLVED IN BIDDING WAR? In some bizzaro world (no doubt run by Bid Selig), Colon may indeed be worth. To Sox he isn't. Similarly, now a 6 Mill a year contract forces Mark to become a mid-3.00 ERA pitcher. He can pull it off, but I can certainly see why he might not be able to, in which case Sox are THAT much more f***ed in terms of making postseason in 2004. **I AGREE, AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THEY'RE ROLLING THE DICE HERE. UNDER THE PREVIOUS DEAL, WASN'T BUEHRLE ELIGIBLE FOR ARBITRATION EVERY YEAR THRU 2006? IF HE BECOMES THE LOW-MID 3.00 ERA PITCHER, HE MIGHT GRAB MORE THAN $6 MIL. JR alienatted fans with his cheap approach, and all these small market money s*** is partly because of him.....While KW, in turn, made STUPID signing such as Ritchie, Konerko, Wells, Koch, Valentin which put the Sox in an even BIGGER hole, forcing us to literally WATCH every cent we spend from now on...........If Mark doesn't come through, it no longer just a performance issue as you're not paying him SERIOUS money than could have been spent fixing problems elsewhere.**YAH, THAT'S TRUE, BUT EVERY GM MAKES MISTAKES. IT'S NOT REALLY FAIR TO KW BECAUSE EVERY TIME CASHMAN OR EPSTEIN f*** UP, THEY'LL JUST SPEND MORE $$$ TO COMPENSATE. KW DOESN'T HAVE THAT LUXURY. I AGREE WITH THE JR SMALL-MONEY BULLs*** THOUGH. IT'S DEFINTELY A RISK WITH MB. I BELIEVE HE'LL LIVE UP TO WHAT THEY PAID HIM, BUT I KNOW THERE'S NO GUARANTEE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Brando(or anyone who knows)-- How do you slice up a quote like that and have it appear in the "message" part of your post? I can't figure it out, mainly because I'm an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 WORD TO YOUR MOTHER DROP DAT ZERO AND GET WIT DA HERO!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Brando(or anyone who knows)-- How do you slice up a quote like that and have it appear in the "message" part of your post? I can't figure it out, mainly because I'm an idiot. I do it (as everything else) long-hand: hightlight your post - copy- paste into message - highlight parts you want quoted - press 'QUOTE' feature botton next to CODE and @..... then write you comments underneath and keep 'QUOTE'-ing other fragments you want quoted individually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 (edited) His numbers, peripherals have been slipping every year, and hitters were no where NEAR as surprised at his stuff as they were back in 2001. The were laying off his slider and change more and more while crushing his hanging curve. His command, cutter and fielding are still good enough to mantain and 4.20 ERA, but in order to come back into mid-3.00 ERA (the only way Burhle is a worth 6 Mill as far as Sox go) territory is if he makes a BIG adjustment, with his curve and change becoming more effective. Who knows, but I am not excastaic one bit. The only thing that is good is that he only makes 3.75 in 2004 which is about 500K-1000K less than he would have gotten in arbitration Okay Brando for the 2nd time, Mark's last 20 starts of the season he had an ERA of 3.42. That's a mid 3 era so I don't know what you are getting at. Edited December 11, 2003 by KipWellsFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Okay Brando for the 2nd time, Mark's last 20 starts of the season he had an ERA of 3.42. Too bad April and May starts count, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Too bad April and May starts count, too. Very true but you were saying it would take something special to get his ERA back to mid 3. I don't agree with that but whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Ponson?--slightly torn right labrum. I still think he's scary, because if it rips, he's gone for possibly 3 seasons. It was a rumor of a slightly torn labrum.. he's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Well, at least Buehrle is here for a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_Bateman Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 It was a rumor of a slightly torn labrum.. he's fine. This is what I (they) were talking about earlier. I know written words do not express emotion, but at times, like this one, your post seems to express that you know for sure how his labrum is. Unless you are him or his doctor, you, or anyone else for that matter, doesn't really know how his labrum is. If I recall correctly, you stated in another thread, if you posts came accross with the sort of "bank on it" tone, to let you know. IMO, this is one of those times. Just my opinion, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I'd be skeptical what some teams put out in terms of injuries, but at the same time the Sox should take those reports serious. Wouldn't a simple MRI be able to tell whoever signs him whether he has a slightly torn labrum? If so, then they should catch something like that in the physical. Also, I heard Pettite on the radio today and he mentioned how the Yanks were telling teams his elbow was gone and to watch out, when he claims that isn't even close to true. He admits to his elbow hurting in the past but he says that was in the past and that this year he felt great en route to 21 wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 This is what I (they) were talking about earlier. I know written words do not express emotion, but at times, like this one, your post seems to express that you know for sure how his labrum is. Unless you are him or his doctor, you, or anyone else for that matter, doesn't really know how his labrum is. If I recall correctly, you stated in another thread, if you posts came accross with the sort of "bank on it" tone, to let you know. IMO, this is one of those times. Just my opinion, of course. Cause I do. I've known Sidney for 5 years. There is nothing wrong with his arm... from HIS mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 about time we gave him a raise 3 year 18 million contract most of it is paid 2nd and 3rd year. with a 4th your option. now here is the question is this signing so we can trade him or keep him??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Gonna merge this post 420 with the one thats stuck on the top of the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Huge thread about it since this afternoon. I am happy bout it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.