baggio202 Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Jimenez was a good trade. We dealt two guys who really had no spot in our organization for Jimenez who I REALLY like (maybe this is more of a personal liking) Glover is good. the only reason his ERA is high is because he started, but he's a good reliever. I love his demeanor and poise. I didn't list these trades as them being KW wins, but they were all strong deals. Wells performed better than Siro, and that trade at the time was huge in that it gave us the TRUE #1 everyone was complaining for. Bradford has done good and I HATED GIVING HIM UP, but Olivo looks to be the first young catcher we've had in a LONG time who looks to be the real deal. Harris for Singleton was good. Sure Harris hasn't done great, but he hasn't really been given a chance. Singleton had done nothing since, while Harris has only had a few games in the bigs. One thing is for us, Harris' "D" is great. I think defensively, he is the best guy we have at a postion. the Koch deal was even, the Clayton deal was even as well. the COlon deal today was a steal. the thing is, KW had made 4 bad trades (I think it is more like 2-3, but I'll stick with 4), but he's made plenty of even to good trades. that doesn't warrant praise, but warrants a certain amount of respect. He can't be considered a crap GM to the extent many believe. oh come on now, oliva hasn't done anything to warrant what you gave him, esp if he can't cork up his bat. the man can't hit. clayton is an even deal. now you loose what ever opinion i have of you as a baseball knowledge person. that clayton remark scared me too..if we traded a used jock strap for clayton we still lose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 umm, okay LDF. I know you guys love to blame Clayton for the Sox' struggles, but he was here to play defense and he did. We gave up Myette for him, anyway, you think we lost that trade? if so, I don't see how anyone can respect your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 wake up people, did you not even hear cashman say that kw rejected an outright el duque/osuna deal 10 days ago, but then KW contacted cashman about maybe being interested if they could make the three way deal work???? give KW the credit for not giving up. again...kw will earn my credit when he improves on the team he inherited...he was handed a gold mine...95 wins , young team with 30 million dollar payroll and BA's number one rated farm system...in two years he doubled the payroll and turned it into a .500 ballclub...now we are suppose to forgive everything because on his 18th deal as a sox GM he finally got one right??? lets wait see what happens...if he adds another starting pitcher..or seriously upgrades an everyday position with getting a guy like IROD...then inks colon to a long term deal (and buehrle too)..then , if the team wins the division and advances in the playoffs more than one season he'll get my respect...but not until... Baggs...you really think that KW wouldn't do something like that if JR told him he could. The fact is he is seriously tied down. Today he made the rotation 100 times better, kept the bullpen as good, if not better, and improved the bench with the pickup of Rios. That said, it seems like they still have at least one other signing out there. I do think they are done trading. Then again, Vazquez is still out there, how bout we offer them Ginter and Jason Dellaero for Vazquez and then sign Cruz Jr. Hey, after today, I realize anything is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 umm, okay LDF. I know you guys love to blame Clayton for the Sox' struggles, but he was here to play defense and he did. We gave up Myette for him, anyway, you think we lost that trade? if so, I don't see how anyone can respect your opinion. Mario and I are about the only ones who will still support that Clayton deal. In retrospect it was a terrible move, and KW admitted it. Royce's temper meshed, but HE wasn't why the Sox sucked the last two years. People can use him as the scapegoat, but there were more serious reasons for why the Sox lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 umm, okay LDF. I know you guys love to blame Clayton for the Sox' struggles, but he was here to play defense and he did. We gave up Myette for him, anyway, you think we lost that trade? if so, I don't see how anyone can respect your opinion. Mario and I are about the only ones who will still support that Clayton deal. In retrospect it was a terrible move, and KW admitted it. Royce's temper meshed, but HE wasn't why the Sox sucked the last two years. People can use him as the scapegoat, but there were more serious reasons for why the Sox lost. he was a major reason the sox failed..but not the only one...but he needs to take his share of the blame..he couldnt hit his weight when it counted...he wasnt only brought here to play defense...jerry manuel said he felt in this line up royce could hit 270-280 and bat 2nd along with his defense....thats the royce KW was expecting to get..plus he WAS a clubhouse cancer...this move was bad for numerous reasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 umm, okay LDF. I know you guys love to blame Clayton for the Sox' struggles, but he was here to play defense and he did. We gave up Myette for him, anyway, you think we lost that trade? if so, I don't see how anyone can respect your opinion. Mario and I are about the only ones who will still support that Clayton deal. In retrospect it was a terrible move, and KW admitted it. Royce's temper meshed, but HE wasn't why the Sox sucked the last two years. People can use him as the scapegoat, but there were more serious reasons for why the Sox lost. I won't say I supported the Clayton deal, because I was more than happy with Jose at short after the 2000 season.... but Clayton did do what he was acquired to do. Solidify the defense at SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Well usually I try and keep myself even keel when it comes to posting on message boards but the recent posts by HSC have started to get on my nerves: lol well start off at catcher........and we will just go around the horn.......1st is ok with paulie and frank backup.. but what do we do with 2nd? and who the hell goes there or do they just platoon between there and ss??? and what about a back up at 3rd??? hell lf .. do we really trust another season with lee out there.. i know i dont... and what about cf.. sure rowand will be ready but whos going to go out there when he crashes into a wall making a catch and breaks his shoulder??? and what about maggs back and wrist problems.. if they flare up who goes out to rf??? not to mention that our pitching still has holes which need to be filled...... i mean geez what have we really acomplished in the past two seasons besides attempt to rebuild without no foundation................can you give me one solid and a solid backup at any position other than 1st????? nope.........so from where i sit we actually need a whole team of something..........dont we.......... Half of these statements are ludicrous and can be applied to any team that is even considered a contender. Looking at other posts of yours in other threads you seem to think that Cashman is a great GM, so lets take a look at the What ifs for the Yankees: What if Clemens age finally catchs up to him? What if Contreras is not as good as people think? What if Matsui is not able to adjust to Major League pitching? What if Soriano does not repeat last years success? What if Pettite has lost something? What if Weaver cant handle the pressure of the Bronx? What if Wells goes back to the White Sox Wells? Anything in the world can happen, you can second guess, you can say the worst, but no team has great backups at every position. The White Sox in my humble opinion are just as deep as most teams out there at many positions, besides catcher. Its easy to be a pessimist, and its hard to be an optimist. But if every fan believed like you do, then no one would of showed up to any Angel games. Because who were the Angels to beat the Yankees, who were they at the start of the year. No one even thought they would be in the playoffs the AL West was a 2 team division, A's and the Mariners, with some even saying the Rangers over the Angels. But they won the World Series, because thats why they play the game. Because if everyone knew what was going to happen in the next season, we might as well not even watch. You can say that I only have less then 10 posts, you can say that Im not a true White Sox fan, or whatever. But none of that can be considered a valid arguement, character assasination always shows a lack of arguement. As to whether or not the White Sox are done, if Gordon passes his physical, I believe that the White Sox will pretty much have closed shop for this offseason. A long term reliever and/or another starter would be nice, but I do not see it as a necessity. The White Sox are clearly concerned with their budget, so I doubt they will frivolously start to add people that are not really big time players. If this was not the case, then you would of seen the White Sox not only acquiring Colon, but also Millwood. Seeing as for absolutely nothing we could of had him and had a rotation of; Buerhle, Colon, Millwood, Garland, and Wright. And that would of been a rotation to marvel about. In the end, why not just be happy that the White Sox did anything? I was fully convinced that we were not going to get anyone after the month of January began to roll by, but even then I was willing to argue with anyone that would listen that the White Sox had a chance to be great. With the addition of Colon for relatively nothing, the White Sox have an even better chance to be great. You talk about the future, but you have to start with 1 World Series before you can have 2. And personally, Id trade pretty much anything if the White Sox win just 1, because who cares if we have the greatest farm system forever and never win a series. I personally am happy, and unless something terrible happens to the White Sox in the next weeks, I am going to be so optimistic about this season that nothing will drag me down. A true fan always is an optimist, even when your teams magic number is 13 and there are 13 games left, you always hope, because thats what being a fan is. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 umm, okay LDF. I know you guys love to blame Clayton for the Sox' struggles, but he was here to play defense and he did. We gave up Myette for him, anyway, you think we lost that trade? if so, I don't see how anyone can respect your opinion. oh i am not blaming him for the sox woes, its that he was a cancer and help in the club house feelings. which help to have a lack luster attitude in the field. mayette was a bust and i will agree with that, remember kw said he traded for clayton to trade him again, which no-one wanted. if he was this all great ss, then why would tex just wanted mayette instead of asking for the farm? in addition with him on the team, the lineup and all that was jack around. furthermore, if he is still this great defensive ss that we desperate need, then why didn't kw resign him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 A true fan always is an optimist, even when your teams magic number is 13 and there are 13 games left, you always hope, because thats what being a fan is. SB i am more optimist this yr than i have been in the last several yrs. most importantly my cudos to kw for getting this done. however, i statement is don't sit on your lures, but go out and get vazquez if he is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 umm, okay LDF. I know you guys love to blame Clayton for the Sox' struggles, but he was here to play defense and he did. We gave up Myette for him, anyway, you think we lost that trade? if so, I don't see how anyone can respect your opinion. Mario and I are about the only ones who will still support that Clayton deal. In retrospect it was a terrible move, and KW admitted it. Royce's temper meshed, but HE wasn't why the Sox sucked the last two years. People can use him as the scapegoat, but there were more serious reasons for why the Sox lost. I won't say I supported the Clayton deal, because I was more than happy with Jose at short after the 2000 season.... but Clayton did do what he was acquired to do. Solidify the defense at SS. i diagree with you, clayton was acquired so kw could use him in a another trade. he has said it several times. he was not meant to stay with the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 umm, okay LDF. I know you guys love to blame Clayton for the Sox' struggles, but he was here to play defense and he did. We gave up Myette for him, anyway, you think we lost that trade? if so, I don't see how anyone can respect your opinion. Mario and I are about the only ones who will still support that Clayton deal. In retrospect it was a terrible move, and KW admitted it. Royce's temper meshed, but HE wasn't why the Sox sucked the last two years. People can use him as the scapegoat, but there were more serious reasons for why the Sox lost. K-layton wasn't THE reason but his attitude and his non-existent first-half bat certainly didn't help matters. I'm just glad him and Ritchie will be on a team that represents what being a loser is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 umm, okay LDF. I know you guys love to blame Clayton for the Sox' struggles, but he was here to play defense and he did. We gave up Myette for him, anyway, you think we lost that trade? if so, I don't see how anyone can respect your opinion. Mario and I are about the only ones who will still support that Clayton deal. In retrospect it was a terrible move, and KW admitted it. Royce's temper meshed, but HE wasn't why the Sox sucked the last two years. People can use him as the scapegoat, but there were more serious reasons for why the Sox lost. K-layton wasn't THE reason but his attitude and his non-existent first-half bat certainly didn't help matters. i say its more like a domino effect with clayton starting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 What if the Yankees, Red Sox, Twins, Angels, ect. team planes crash into each other, give me a break. The team is a good team and that is a minority in baseball period, World Series, unlikely, reason to s*** on everyone and everything, no friggin way. The Clayton trade sucked balls. Addition by subtraction, having a black hole in offence attitude and work ethic at SS for 2 years is worse than a young pitcher of any ability, or a worn Jock for that matter, add the price tag and it's enough to make one vomit. I'm neutral on KW, if he does something right I like it if he does something wrong I don't like it and quite frankly KW has not made a trade that has made us a significantly better or worse team, except for maybe Marte and Ritchie by virtue of him not doing anything whereas Kip and Fogg have some time left of not doing anything. This trade is good because it can make us a lot better and at worst doesn't make us worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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