Deals Unlikely for Sox

[Cali]

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...t=.jsp&c_id=cha

 

Goddamn do they need to keep pushing that fact on us?

 

Which brings me to this question, would you rather have know the Sox weren't gonna make any moves and be angry today or not know they weren't gonna do anything and just be angry on monday?

 

I don't know why but I think I prefer the latter.

 

But I will give the Sox to the "Colon Deadline" Jan 15, 2004 before I truely become pissed, but I'm slowly getting there.

[SnB]

this is just pissing me off. the central is ripe for the taking, spend the f***in money, and you will buy the division. If you get into the playoffs anything can happpen

[cwsox]

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...t=.jsp&c_id=cha

 

Goddamn do they need to keep pushing that fact on us?

I saw that tonight too and I was trying to figure out, why in the world would they actually say that?

 

Blowing smoke and all is one thing but that is just insulting to the fans.

[Guest JimH]

What it means is, he's frustrated by having a $58 million payroll (although that's just what's been reported by the media and we've been told by insiders we can't believe anything the media says).

 

Also, they're waiting for the landscape of things to change as of 12/20.

 

Plus, it's the GM-in-name-only making all these statements, so what the hell difference does it make?

[Guest JimH]

What's insulting about saying nothing is on the table they like, in terms of deals?

 

They could say nothing at all ... and people would be insulted about that, too.

 

They don't throw the first pitch for another3 1/2 months.

 

Patience is a virtue. I'm as anxious as the rest of you that something gets done, but I'd rather have no deals vs. a bad deal.

 

By the by, how do you think Billy Beane is feeling about that Foulke-Koch trade right now? Oh wait, I forgot ... he got Mark Johnson in the deal

[JoshPR]

Alright, this is my translation of What Kenny really means by this

 

 

“At this point, things just don’t work for us,” Williams added. “Our view is that we are not in a need for a major overhaul of any sort. We just want to augment what we have.”

 

"We dont want to spend money, so were going to work with whats already on are small payroll."

 

 

“Every team has their own agenda, and there are still a number of attractive free agents, very expensive free agents, available. It’s a matter of crossing items off their checklist and maybe something will present itself later. Then again, maybe they will be too late and we will have moved on down the road already.”

 

"Hopfully, a cheap Free Agent shows up at my door, and asks me to play for the organization, its what I hope for."

 

In a weekend where the White Sox figured to be active adding new names to the roster, Williams instead is left to talk about the status of familiar faces and how they will fit into the 2004 scheme. Williams spoke Friday about Billy Koch, the closer he acquired from Oakland last offseason, who saved 144 games during his first four seasons and followed up that achievement with 11 saves and a 5.77 earned run average in 55 games during his first year for the White Sox.

 

"Aww s***, Im f***ed"

Our view is that we are not in a need for a major overhaul of any sort. We just want to augment what we have.” [/b]

 

Really Kenny?? How about Pitching, Closer, Second Base, Center Field?

 

C'mon Kenny you can't be that f***ing Blind or Stupid

 

It’s a matter of crossing items off their checklist and maybe something will present itself later

 

Yeah maybe Ligthning will stike again and I'll get another Loaiza

[Cali]

I'm gonna be pissed if there is another article on whitesox.com tomorrow that says something like "Sox still silent in New Orleans"

[Guest Hex Rudler]

Kenny's trades have f***ed the Sox in each of the last two seasons, so why do you want him to pull the trigger on another big trade? Add that to the fact that we lost five top prospects in his mid season swaps makes me want to get through the off season without any major trades, because he'll just get fleeced again.

[Rowand44]

Kenny's trades have f***ed the Sox in each of the last two seasons, so why do you want him to pull the trigger on another big trade? Add that to the fact that we lost five top prospects in his mid season swaps makes me want to get through the off season without any major trades, because he'll just get fleeced again.

First of all kenny did do the koch trade last year, but he also got us Bartolo, 2nd of all I wouldn't say we lost top 5 prospects, Webster maybe but he's expendable cause of all the outfield depth the sox have in their system, rupe I would say could turn out descent, but I just don't think he'll be anything special, and trading a reliever spect is not that big of a deal, we can find a royce ring with some of the additional picks we have recieved in the draft this year.

[Gene Honda Civic]

First of all kenny did do the koch trade last year, but he also got us Bartolo,

Brain Cashman got us Bartolo -- he didn't want him to be red sox. The yanks didn't have too much need to Bart last year but keeping him out of beantown was thier number one priority.

[Chisoxfn]

They could also say nothing is going on as a negotiating ploy acting as if the other teams talking to them have offered them crap thus far, so step it up.

 

You don't ever want to sound urgent to make a deal, cause when that happens, the team will definately make a mistake. A, the other teams know your forced and will try to push your hand and force a deal and B, your making a rash move and typically when that happens you haven't thought it over.

 

It would be foolish to say they are close to a move or that they need to make some moves. Kenny has to go business as usual and keep chugging away until the right moves are there. I can't picture Kenny sitting on his ass doing jack. He seems like a guy with fire and passion who wants to win the series.

 

I don't know whether he'll put the team out there, but I sure as hell don't see him going down without a fight.

[Chisoxfn]

Brain Cashman got us Bartolo -- he didn't want him to be red sox.  The yanks didn't have too much need to Bart last year but keeping him out of beantown was thier number one priority.

I don't think Brian Cashman does too much anymore. I think George is running the show and I wouldn't be shocked if he was doing it a year ago. I think Kenny made the deal. Cashman was quoted as saying Kenny came to him with it, why would he not take the credit?

[Chisoxfn]

Kenny's trades have f***ed the Sox in each of the last two seasons, so why do you want him to pull the trigger on another big trade?  Add that to the fact that we lost five top prospects in his mid season swaps makes me want to get through the off season without any major trades, because he'll just get fleeced again.

Well I'll take trading Rocky Biddle and Antonio Osuna for two high high draft picks and Bartolo Colon for a season.

 

I'll also take Matt Guerrier for Yan and Marte and I still say the Jimenez trade worked out cause in some way it led to Schoenweiss, who isn't horrible (via Dunn).

 

He's made a few s***ty trades, the Alomar for Ring one could be considered that, but at the same time going for the series, I think it was a small price to pay. Almonte was already waived so don't mention him as part of the deal anymore and well I still have doubts on Ring.

 

Everett was a hell of a player and he will be missed and I do agree they gave up a lot for him, I hated seeing Rupe go. Its my belief Rupe is the one that will blow up in the Sox face, well that and the Kip Wells deal which I screamed against.

[Pastime]

Here's my translation :

 

"I wanted to have some liberties in New Orleans, but my chaperone came down with me to hold my hand, and I can't even piss without him standing over me. However, I got to go to a big city and enjoy great food, great atmosphere, and had a great time! Yay!! Oh wait, was I supposed to talk to other people or something? Ahh, who cares. I love the winter meetings. I hope we go to Vegas next year. All those bright lights and great buffets. Am I supposed to talk to people there too?? Dammit, you're all killing my buzz. I have to take a dump. Mr. Reinsdorf, please let me go into the bathroom alone, please."

 

Kenny The Puppet. Here's hoping he chokes on the strings around his neck.

 

Until this stooge actually acquires something besides "bonus points for stupidity" I've had it. I attend at least 15 games a year. That total will be down to ZERO unless they do something that makes me want to cheer. I will not spend another dollar on that team unless they do something in the next 2 months. Otherwise, piss on the Sox, their owner, and the horse that rode in on him.

 

Fool me once - shame on me. Fool me twice - go f*** yourself, cheapass.

[Cali]

From an article on the M's site that says Tejada declines their first offer:

 

Seattle could, for example, replace Garcia in the rotation with Rafael Soriano.

 

The White Sox, who lost ace right-hander Bartolo Colon to the Angels, reportedly would like to replace him with Garcia and might be willing to swap shortstop/outfielder Jose Valentin to the Mariners.

 

Valentin, 31, batted only .237 last season, but hit 28 home runs and drove in 74 runs. He has 196 home runs in 4,392 career at-bats and driven in 652 runs.

 

There is no f***ing way Kenny can say that this deal would be bad for the team. Valentin sucks, his option should have never been picked up, the Sox need a starter, if Tejada signs elsewhere f***ing do this deal!

[DBAHO]

From an article on the M's site that says Tejada declines their first offer:

 

 

 

There is no f***ing way Kenny can say that this deal would be bad for the team. Valentin sucks, his option should have never been picked up, the Sox need a starter, if Tejada signs elsewhere f***ing do this deal!

I'm all for tradin Garcia for Valentin if that's the best we can get for Jose. I would also luv to get Rafael Soraino or their stud pitchin prospect Clint Naeole who I believe is an Aussie.

[Pastime]

Juan Uribe is no All-Star, but he would be better defensively than Valentin if he broke his arm and played in a sling.

 

If that deal is actually possible, then Kenny had better pounce on that like a cat pounces on a mouse.

 

Unless Kenny's too bloated from eating shrimp and jumbalaya the last 3 days. That's all he's done so far, near as I can tell.

[DBAHO]

The guy I was talkin bout was is in fact Clint Nageotte, and no he's not an Aussie, he was drafted in da 5th round in 1999 from Ohio High School. If we hav to include Maggs or Carlos Lee in a deal, we should ask for Soriano or Nageotte included in a deal as a MINIMUM. Here r his numbers,

Year Team Level G GS IP H R ER HR BB SO W-L SV ERA

2001 Wisconsin A 28 26 152.1 141 65 53 10 50 187 11-8 0 3.13

2002 San Bernadino A 29 29 164.2 153 101 83 10 68 214 9-6 0 4.54

2003 San Antonio AA 27 27 154.0 127 60 53 6 67 157 11-7 0 3.10

And some small tidbits,

Nageotte led the minor leagues in strikeouts in 2002, and while his K-rate dropped in '03, it was still well above average, with more than one strikeout per inning. He is tough to hit, seldom giving up home runs or extra-base hits. His excellent K/IP and H/IP ratios in Double-A are strong markers for future success. His walk rate isn't bad, but it's not really good, either, and maintaining decent command as he moves up will be a key test for him.

Every scouting report about Nageotte begins with his slider. He has one of the best breaking pitches in baseball. His slider has a tight break and is very overpowering. It's a definite plus major league pitch right now. Nageotte also has a solid fastball, timed as high as 95 mph. His changeup is adequate when he uses it, but will need improvement if he wants to be a successful major league starter. Nageotte's command is not awful, but it also needs sharpening.

Statistically, there's a lot to like here. His high strikeout rate pegs him as a potentially dominant pitcher. In scouting terms, Nageotte has a lot of work to do in order to fulfil his potential, at least in the rotation. If he is unable to develop a changeup, he could end up as an overpowering reliever.

[cwsox]

<clip> You don't ever want to sound urgent to make a deal, cause when that happens, the team will definately make a mistake.  A, the other teams know your forced and will try to push your hand and force a deal and B, your making a rash move and typically when that happens you haven't thought it over.

 

It would be foolish to say they are close to a move or that they need to make some moves.  Kenny has to go business as usual and keep chugging away until the right moves are there.  I can't picture Kenny sitting on his ass doing jack.  He seems like a guy with fire and passion who wants to win the series.

 

I don't know whether he'll put the team out there, but I sure as hell don't see him going down without a fight.

and I agree and I think most fans know that -

 

I think it is bad PR to have your website "we are doing nothing" as opposed to the boilerplate "we will do something i it comes along but not going to make a move for a move's sake" or whatever

[103 mph screwball]

JR should publicly say that he will come up with the money to keep the rest of the Sox team together and patch the holes. Even if he doesn't mean it or can't do it. If people know you have to sell something, they aren't going to offer you full value. All he has to say is that the Sox would raise the payroll to 65 or 70 mil if necessary in 2004 and that the Sox may have to go back to 45-50 mil in 2005 to pay for it. Then say something about the Sox players being too good and too important to him to just salary dump. Then, I think a respectable trade would come along.

 

I thought the payroll restriction was a smoke screen for negotiating with free agents. I think it is hurting them too much in the trade market.

 

There is still a lot of time. I still have hope.

[Soxfest]

They could also say nothing is going on as a negotiating ploy acting as if the other teams talking to them have offered them crap thus far, so step it up.

 

You don't ever want to sound urgent to make a deal, cause when that happens, the team will definately make a mistake.  A, the other teams know your forced and will try to push your hand and force a deal and B, your making a rash move and typically when that happens you haven't thought it over.

 

It would be foolish to say they are close to a move or that they need to make some moves.  Kenny has to go business as usual and keep chugging away until the right moves are there.  I can't picture Kenny sitting on his ass doing jack.  He seems like a guy with fire and passion who wants to win the series.

 

I don't know whether he'll put the team out there, but I sure as hell don't see him going down without a fight.

You are giving KW alot more credit than he deserves, no ply from him.

[Chisoxfn]

You are giving KW alot more credit than he deserves, no ply from him.

For me, he's earned that slack by at least going at and making moves that have given the Sox a chance at winning it all. It hasn't happened, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. Two years ago, I couldn't stand Williams, but all that has been changing, but if he doesn't do a good job this year, then I could see him ousted.

[Soxbadger]

So what Kenny should of said was...

 

"We have 3 or 4 similar RH bats we need to dump, we also are in desperate need for SP, CF, 2nd. Our teamn needs to slash payroll, and we need to do something to counter the Cubs being in the NLCS and trading for Lee, please oh please help us."

 

Kenny is playing hardball and so is Reinsdorf.

 

By saying they wont cut salary just to slash money they are saying:

 

Stop asking for Maggs and giving us nothing in return. The Sox can pay him and we will keep him if you keep offering us things we dont want.

 

Personally this makes me happier, it means they are not going to devastate this team just to get a pitcher or 2, when we can sign some cheap pitchers and hope they can give us 10 wins or so. Ponson, Perez, Garcia, all have their strengths and weaknesses, but Ponson we can just trade for. If we have the possibility of going to a $65mil payroll then we can sign some good $1-2mil free agents, and be in 1st at the All-Star break.

 

Then we make a few trades, using our prospects to make other teams pay for high salaries.

 

We are only a few players away , and in any season anything can happen.

 

It is concievable that:

 

Frank hits .280 35hr 100rbi

Paul hits .280 35 100

Lee hits .280 35 100

Maggs hits .280 35 100

 

Our offense is going to be powerful, and while Pitching does win games, good offense can help mediocre pitching. The Sox need starters who will give them 7-8 innings and 3-4 runs.

 

We can win with this team, and a few good FA additions could come cheap, and give us a real chance to win the AL Central.

 

A lot of players are going to be nontendered, especially pitchers, we could get a guy like Pavano for $3-4mil, or maybe even Burnett at $6mil.

 

Why are we in such a rush to do something, when economically it is best to wait until all of our options are out there.

 

We are not signing one of the top free agents, and most likely we are going to get our talent via trade. Maggs, Lee, Konerko, are not going anywhere, we can wait and see what happens.

 

Then if a trade is right we do it.

 

I am sorry but you see teams like the Dodgers thinking we will take a Maggs for Perez, Cora, and Roberts.

 

Personally I think Williams is asking for more like a Perez, Weaver, mota or Perez, Jackson.

 

2 pitchers that can help us now or nothing.

 

We can sign guys that have upside like perez, why should we trade our best player, if we dont need the money.

 

Thats what Kenny is saying.

 

SB

[YASNY]

Brain Cashman got us Bartolo -- he didn't want him to be red sox.  The yanks didn't have too much need to Bart last year but keeping him out of beantown was thier number one priority.

Cashman did not make this deal. Kenny worked his ass off to acquire Colon. Give the dude credit for what he does accomplish.