Cali Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Two separate articles confirm that's what Ozzie wants to do, assuming he isn't traded. Guillen said he views Magglio Ordonez, not Thomas, as his No. 3 hitter. That assumes Ordonez won't be traded. One of the first things he might want to tell Thomas is Magglio Ordonez likely will bat in the No. 3 hole next season with Thomas moved to cleanup. Hope frank doesn't throw a hissy fit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Hmmm I think Ozzie wants to make Maggs into his version of Pudge Rodriguez now. I think he's more suited to no. 3 than cleanup actually, a guy with his average should prob be 1 spot higher up the order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Ozzie passed baseball 101. Now let's see if he has the b*lls to follow through after meeting with Frank. IMHO baseball 201 would have had Frank in the #6 hole last season. Flip flopping him with Maggs is a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 In my opinion this is exactly what I what I hate about the Ozzie Hire. He srcrewed himself in his press conference, challenging frank without talking to him, just to gain headlines and make his 5'2" frame appear bigger. Now he is talking about his batting order prior to talking to the people involved. He would fail misserably in a traditional business surrounding. Its like saying I am going to switch these two sales territorities without talking to the sales reps first. I assure you he will quickly piss people off. Let me be on record, I never liked him as a player and I do not like him now. This is all a cheap scam to appeal to Whitesox fans because they won't spend money to get an experienced manager. I hope the whitesox win despite him but I assure you eventually we will be rebuilding and his cavalier attitude is better suited for 20 year olds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Ozzie will need help with clubhouse politics and PR. Hopefully Nossek and Coop will reign him in. But the upside is that, unlike Manuel, he won't flinch when he sez Frank ain't hittin third no more. He should be hitting fifth or sixth. Let Caballo hit cleanup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 yes of course, but as you may have touched on this is not my point. Ozzie needs to shut his mouth. He needs to keep his team together. Ozzie should not be talking about this stuff without talking to players first. Other things will come up two or three times during spring training and a couple more times a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 JM did take on Frank and Frank hit a lower in the lineup some of the time the last part of the JM era JM took Frank on to Frank's face, not through the media, and that is a very important distinction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loaiza21 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Frank should be moved into the #5 slot. I mean Lee would do a way better job cleaning up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Frank should be moved into the #5 slot. I mean Lee would do a way better job cleaning up. not the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be Good Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 THAT wouldnt be a bad Idea with Magges in the 3 hole and Frank hitting cleanup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattyguy78 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 I completely agree with quickman....and just a thought, I mean if Ozzie hasn't even spoken with Frank or many of the other players on the team how could he possibly know where each of them is better suited in the lineup, I just think he should at least talk to them or even wait till ST before making these assumptions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 I like ozzie, but he needs to shut his mouth and wait for his team to be set in stone before making moves like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 I think the idea of moving Maggs to 3rd and Thomas to cleanup is very good. I was suggesting that as early as August and September. I think that a guy with a good average should be setting the tables and then a guy who hits home runs and is trying to hit home runs should be clearing the table. However, I do agree with quickman that Ozzie should not have said this to the public and that he should have just confronted Frank and told him his plans. Frank as well as the rest of the team may not be too happy with Ozzie right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 This should have been done 3 years ago really. And I also agree that Frank should be hitting 5th. Personally I hit Carlos 3rd, Maggs 4th, and Frank 5th, but that is just MO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 I really like this idea....the numbers Thomas put up last year make much more sense in the 4th spot. It allows him to go for the extra base hit w/ more runners on base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 JM took him on -- and always backed down. backed down in 2002 when Frankie was pouting and not sitting on the bench during the games. Konerko had to call him out publicly. JM said zippo. backed down about playing him more at first base. backed down last year when he said he wanted him to swing for doubles and singles and Frank said he was swinging for the fences (because he wants to get to 500 dingers to salvage his fading Hall of Fame candidacy) Hell, JM hardly stood up to anybody, which is why this team tanked last year and he got what he deserved -- a broom. Don't tell me he stood up to Frank. Guillen's not the first to say this stuff. Just the first to be upfront about it. It's time for a change -- pushing Frank out da door. He's not a leader -- and never will be. Time to turn the clubhouse over to the next generation. Frank's time has come -- and gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Don't tell me he stood up to Frank. he sure did in 2000 as all the observing world knows and as for the rest, that is not the way that I have heard it all, don't confuse what "everybody knows" with reality And the team did not "tank" on JM in 2003 - they tanked on themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 TQ, while I tend to agree about Guillen shooting off his yap ... Rhetorical question, how many championships have the Sox won with a "traditional" manager who discusses things with the players first, etc. etc. Taking it a step further, how many championships have the Sox won with that sort of manager, with this group of players. Specifically, but not exclusively, Frank. We all know the answer. Not trying to be a smartass here, but the decision's been made, it will be Guillen's team in spring training, and we have to give him a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 Manuel may have stood up to Frank, and I for one believe he did in certan situations. One of which was very highly publicized. As for whether or not it had a positive effect on Thomas, or the team, that's a whole other story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 I assume you're talking about the dustup in Tucson over the shuttle run and Frank's note from his doctor. By then Frankie had already run roughshod over Manuel for two seasons. JM made a minor stand, but it wasn't long until No. 35 was back to basic Frank -- worried to death about his numbers. It's time for people to quit pretending he's the player he was 10 years ago. He's not. And you don't need to be a Harvard grad to figure out Sox management would be thrilled if they could turn the page and move on. Might even benefit Frank, too. He's not happy he didn't make the all-star team, he's not thrilled with his contract, he's not returning Guillen's calls, he ain't buddies with Kenny Williams, blah, blah, blah. It's B.S. Quit tip-toeing around the guy and cut the cord. So let's do it. Maybe it would enable us to keep Maggs. If so I'm 500 percent for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 TQ, while I tend to agree about Guillen shooting off his yap ... Rhetorical question, how many championships have the Sox won with a "traditional" manager who discusses things with the players first, etc. etc. Taking it a step further, how many championships have the Sox won with that sort of manager, with this group of players. Specifically, but not exclusively, Frank. We all know the answer. Not trying to be a smartass here, but the decision's been made, it will be Guillen's team in spring training, and we have to give him a chance. Jim, Just list me on the record. I will remind you of the "little things throughout the season. This guy has a big mouth and he will piss off alot of people before it is over. As far as your rhetorical question, well, he won't win here either not with this group and this management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Maybe Guillen was told to say this to make other teams think that we might not want to trade Maggs thereby allowing KW to try and get more in a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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