Evil Sadaam CAPTURED!!!!!!

[FlaSoxxJim]

See, I wouldn't put it that way. If WMD is used and you and your family and friends die, the rest of it doen't really matter.   

 

PNAC?  Is it really any scarier than FRC has been for, what, 80 years now?

 

BTW, have I mentioned how much I loathe Cheney?

The people that run and buy into FRC are certainly frightening enough. But I don't see their policies as much more than a sinister toilet training manuel for Christian hatemongers. The problem with the powers behind PNAC are exactly that -- these jokers have frighteningly real power. Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rummy, Zalmay Khalilzad... it doesn't get much heavier than that. Throw in I. Lewis Libby, Steve Forbes, Jeb Bush, Neocon "Godfather" William Kristol, and others, and you have a group of very dangerous people who are on record as wanting to bring about their vision for a "unipolar world" (Pax Americana, American Empire, etc...). The fact that, well before 9-11, the Project directors slavered over the possibility that a 9-11 type event might occur that would speed up their planned transformation of the world should keep sane people awake at night.

 

Folks who would rather not think about such things (our leaders couldn't possible be bad people, could they?) are usually quick to dismiss these concerns as some left-wing lunacy, but these guys have signed and published their vision for all to see. For anyone who wants to get it from the horse's mouth here's the link to a pdf download of "Rebuilding America's Defenses -- Strategy, Forces, and Resources for a New Century" (Project for the New American Century, September 2000). This is the "book" Apu referenced earlier, or at least the most recent incarnation of ideas the boys have been kicking around in published form since at least 1992.

 

Here's a juicy part from page 51 "...the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor. " File that in the 'be careful what you wish for' category.

 

The Bush Doctrine of preemptive attack is right there in the road map. There was a need to justify it in whatever way possible/convenient - WMDs, liberating an oppressed people, national security, whatever sells - but this war has been on the to do list for a long time and not for the sake of the Iraqi people.

[BrandoFan]

Throw in I. Lewis Libby, Steve Forbes, Jeb Bush, Neocon "Godfather" William Kristol, and others, and you have a group of very dangerous people who are on record as wanting to bring about their vision for a "unipolar world" (Pax Americana, American Empire, etc...).

 

 

Would elborate on how each of the above fits into the greater scheme of things.

 

I thought "unipolar world" was a global legend. Hmm.

[1549]

me too

I disagree, I think that the PNAC has some good behind it (I think it is good to have a strong standing army). Overall though I say the project is somewhat worthless.

 

We already play a "big-brother" role in global affairs. Why do we need to set up the PNAC to "strive to rally support for a vigorous and principled policy of American international involvement"? The war in Iraq shows that will do what we want no matter how much domestic and international opposition exists.

 

Whether you agree or disagree with the role america plays, it does render the PNAC somewhat useless.

 

The only thing that scares me about the PNAC is the use of propoganda to stimulate support for national defense. It seems more like a communist strategy, than the strategy of the worlds largest democratic power.

 

The FRC is a different story. If we are talking about the same FRC (family research Council), that I think is one of the better programs existing. It focuses more on social america rather than 'new world manifest destiny'.

 

Many of the social problems in this country can be solved by strong close knit family morals. I know sox4life has previously brought up the single mother syndrome, but my best friend and his siblings have been raised only by his mother, who is the busiest woman I know. Anyway, all those kids stay out of trouble because their mom keeps a strong hold over the house and keeps family traditions.

 

I think family is the most crucial element of any society, and if the FRC is capable of stopping the deterioration of family in America than I don't see why anyone would be in fear of it.

 

I hope we are talking about the same FRC, otherwise I feel like a dumbass

[FlaSoxxJim]

I hope we are talking about the same FRC, otherwise I feel like a dumbass

That is the FRC I was referring to ('sinister toilet training for Christian hatemongers'), and I assume it is teh group Brando was speaking of as well. If, on the other hand, he was getting all bunged up over Field Reversed Configuration, I'll beg to differ. In my book there's nothing wrong with an elongated plasma-ellipsoid conducting an azimuthal current to reverse the direction of externally applied magnetic fields. But that's just me.

 

On the FRC subject… you won’t find a bigger backer of the importance of family than I. But Dan Quayle pretty much ensured that “family values” would fully become code words for a lot of intolerant Christian conservatism ideology. Quayle, FRC, and similar groups insist that faith in God is a prerequisite for having family values. I find that distasteful and know it to be untrue, elitist, and self-serving. Science and humor writer and Susan McCarthy has noted that these blueprints for family values typically include nothing about actual kindness, nothing about tolerance, nothing about not burning others at the stake for holding different viewpoints.

[Rex Kickass]

I disagree, I think that the PNAC has some good behind it (I think it is good to have a strong standing army).  Overall though I say the project is somewhat worthless.

 

We already play a "big-brother" role in global affairs.  Why do we need to set up the PNAC to "strive to rally support for a vigorous and principled policy of American international involvement"?  The war in Iraq shows that will do what we want no matter how much domestic and international opposition exists.

 

Whether you agree or disagree with the role america plays, it does render the PNAC somewhat useless.

 

The only thing that scares me about the PNAC is the use of propoganda to stimulate support for national defense.  It seems more like a communist strategy, than the strategy of the worlds largest democratic power.

 

The FRC is a different story.  If we are talking about the same FRC (family research Council), that I think is one of the better programs existing.  It focuses more on social america rather than 'new world manifest destiny'.

 

Many of the social problems in this country can be solved by strong close knit family morals.  I know sox4life has previously brought up the single mother syndrome, but my best friend and his siblings have been raised only by his mother, who is the busiest woman I know.  Anyway, all those kids stay out of trouble because their mom keeps a strong hold over the house and keeps family traditions.

 

I think family is the most crucial element of any society, and if the FRC is capable of stopping the deterioration of family in America than I don't see why anyone would be in fear of it.

 

I hope we are talking about the same FRC, otherwise I feel like a dumbass

Having a strong standing army is the goal of any major nation's defense department. This should be no exception. We are the biggest baddest muthaf***as on the planet right now, which means we oughta have the biggest baddest muthaf***in army there too. However, using military force to affect change in a preemptive fashion is irresponsible, dangerous and just plain wrong, ethically and morally.

 

Just so y'all know. Since Saddam's capture has been announced, there have been 4 suicide bombings in Iraq, 27 more Iraqi Security force members dead. If your living in a modified Latrine Pit with a stash of 750K, candy bars and hotdogs, something tells me that you aren't that involved with an insurgency. Just a hunch.

[rafacosta]

The people of Iraq are truly liberated now.

LOL.

 

They are in Bush's (USA) hand now...and i dont consider this liberate.

[Queen Prawn]

Just so y'all know. Since Saddam's capture has been announced, there have been 4 suicide bombings in Iraq, 27 more Iraqi Security force members dead. If your living in a modified Latrine Pit with a stash of 750K, candy bars and hotdogs, something tells me that you aren't that involved with an insurgency. Just a hunch.

No kidding. I've been thinking since I heard the news on the way back from the grocery store yesterday that this might be good for the Iraquies, but a bad situation for the soldiers there...

[southsider2k5]

It appears that Hussein did have some connection to the insurgency. They have already captured a couple of key people and have key info on a couple of rebel cells.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3717232/

[IlliniBob72]

Whether Saddam had any actual connection with the insurgency is irrelevant. His existence out there was a key reason for it. The same thing is the reason why when Ottoman sultans ascended to the throne they would murder any possible alternative heirs, even if the heir was an infant. The existence of an alternate heir would always lead to people plotting and scheming to replace the Sultan with the alternate. With Saddam removed, that is one alternate to the Iraqi democracy removed.

[BrandoFan]

They are in Bush's (USA) hand now...and i dont consider this liberate

.

 

You know, rafa, this is like a child being divided between an overbearing father who's been beating and molesting him.....and an emotionally distant step mother who only married the father to get his money.

 

On one hand, a kid clearly shouldn't count on "mother" for emotional and probably financial support in the future. She is a goldigger, even tho she may occasionally do something good to show she cares, whatever suits her designs really..

 

On the other hand, the father is a first-rate a scumbag and a sexual predator to boot......but, hey, he is your flesh and blood and has been there all your life, right?

 

Sadaam is the father and US is the step mother.....and Islamic findamentalism is an evil cunning aunt fighting for custody after father is jailed.

 

And France is...

[BrandoFan]

That is the FRC I was referring to ('sinister toilet training for Christian hatemongers'), and I assume it is teh group Brando was speaking of as well

.

 

I'll give you a hint: Foreign Relations.....Sorry, 1549, wrong meeting.

 

 

 

FSJ, I asked you to comment on a few people. Do you mind elaborating on their involving in PNAC? Thanks.

[rafacosta]

.

 

You know, rafa, this is like a child being divided between an overbearing father who's been beating and molesting him.....and an emotionally distant step mother who only married the father to get his money.

 

On one hand, a kid clearly shouldn't count on "mother" for emotional and probably financial support in the future. She is a goldigger, even tho she may occasionally do something good to show she cares, whatever suits her designs really..

 

On the other hand, the father is a first-rate a scumbag and a sexual predator to boot......but, hey, he is your flesh and blood and has been there all your life, right?   

 

Sadaam is the father and US is the step mother.....and Islamic findamentalism is an evil cunning aunt fighting for custody after father is jailed.

 

And France is...

Brando,

 

You forgot to mention that the kid is a a boy that has something very atractive (oil)... and this is the main reason (oil) for the fight.

[BrandoFan]

Brando,

 

You forgot to mention that the kid is a a boy that has something very atractive (oil)... and this is the main reason (oil) for the fight.

No, I mentioned it. The "goldiggin" stepmother gettign her way part.

[cwsox]

Whether Saddam had any actual connection with the insurgency is irrelevant. His existence out there was a key reason for it.

Agree in part, disagree in part.

 

This all may deflate Saddam loyalistrs, what there were.

 

It will not slow down or in any way effect al-queda, Iraqi nationalists who do not like their country occupied, or Islamic actvitists (I can't think fio a good word there) who do not like seeing an islamic country occupied. Reality is it may stir up everything there.

[southsider2k5]

Well we all know who is waiting for Saddam

 

 

 

Oh now the gassing of Kurds was just inappropriate... We need to talk about that. Did it make you feel tough?

[southsider2k5]

This is an interesting account of the raid. Seems Saddam could have ate a hand grenade under standard proceedure for clearing holes like that.

 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...addam_arrest_dc

[BrandoFan]

This is an interesting account of the raid.  Seems Saddam could have ate a hand grenade under standard proceedure for clearing holes like that.

That's inhumane! Enemies must be lured out of holes with donuts.

[FlaSoxxJim]

FSJ, I asked you to comment on a few people.  Do you mind elaborating on their involving in PNAC? Thanks.

Actually I can't give you much, other than to tell you that all those folks and more are signatories to the PNAC charter thingy, which means they agree with the ideology and furthering it. Kristol is out on the Neocon forefront with his books and print articles basically flauting the scarier aspects of the PNAC agenda while others (like my own thorn-in-side Jeb Bush) have tried to distance themselves from it. With names like Forbes, etc. (Quayle is also one) on the list, its clear this is a well-heeled and influential bunch of guys.

[BrandoFan]

You know FSJ, in regards with FRC, when you spoke of potty-training for Christian hatemongers, I didn't know what you meant.....Then 1549's post cleared it up. Sorry for the confusion.

 

PS I forget the name of the leader of FRC's more militant foreign chapter (Bendelburg?). A Duke or something. I know Nixon and Kissinger were the two prominet ones in here.