Chisoxfn Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Full Article to the Story The Red Sox have balked, but they have spoken with multiple teams here over the weekend about acquiring pitching -- using reliever Scott Williamson as bait. That way, perhaps, the Red Sox could satisfy Texas' demand for pitching without having to put up as much -- or any -- cash. The Red Sox, according to highly placed sources, dangled Williamson to St. Louis for Jason Marquis, the pitcher the Cardinals acquired from Atlanta on Saturday, only to have St. Louis decline. The Red Sox also shopped Williamson to the Chicago White Sox, according to other sources. The Chicago White Sox, looking to slice at least another $6 million from their payroll to reduce it to $58 million for 2004, have been pushing slugging outfielder Magglio Ordonez to the Dodgers but requesting left-handed setup man Guillermo Mota in return. So far, the Dodgers have had no interest in parting with Mota -- particularly since they already lost their right-handed setup man from '03, Paul Quantrill, to the New York Yankees. Same with the Dodgers and the White Sox. If the Red Sox take Garciaparra off the table, they might be more inclined to acquire Ordonez as the hitter they so desperately need. But with Garciaparra's situation unresolved, the Dodgers continue to keep their options open. I'd definately like Scott Williamson, but not at the price of a pitcher, which is what it appears the Red Sox want. Now if that pitcher is something like Matt Ginter and someone else, then I'd say listen, maybe even Jon Rauch, now that the Sox have Grilli, but no more then that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 This whole Maggs thing is starting to confuse the s*** out of me. Is just LA interested in Maggs or is Boston also interested as well? Or if we traded Maggs to Boston, could Boston then ship him out to LA for the guys we want, or what the hell? I am so lost it is not even funny. Anyways, we were interested in Williamson last year, in fact, I believe KW said something to the fact that he was saddened by the fact that he did not get Williamson. I think KW may make a serious push at getting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 I couldn't figure it out. I also noticed they claim Mota is a left handed reliever. I think that the report is that the Red Sox could also be interested. I also notice the article believes that once the Arod and Nomar deals go down, you will see a flurry of trades and that very well could be the case. We know that one of LA and Seattle is going to want Magglio. The question is whether a 3rd team will jump into the picture. As long as there are two teams out there and they don't have any other options (Nomar gone; Vladdy signed) then I think it leaves the Sox with a lot of chips on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I couldn't figure it out. I also noticed they claim Mota is a left handed reliever. I think that the report is that the Red Sox could also be interested. I also notice the article believes that once the Arod and Nomar deals go down, you will see a flurry of trades and that very well could be the case. We know that one of LA and Seattle is going to want Magglio. The question is whether a 3rd team will jump into the picture. As long as there are two teams out there and they don't have any other options (Nomar gone; Vladdy signed) then I think it leaves the Sox with a lot of chips on the table. I hope so. I hope Vlad hurries up and signs with Baltimore. If he signs with someone, you are then either looking at putting an injury prone Juan Gonzalez in RF(or LF) who is VERY injury prone, or signing for second tier and getting Reggie Sanders, OR making a big trade and getting the big-name, good attitude Magglio Ordonez. At that point wish lists have Magglio Ordonez on them a lot more. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Right now, it kind of looks like there is a stalemate....someone's gotta break the ice, and I think it begins with ARod getting dealt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 The one sleeper is Tampa Bay who is supposedly looking to deal Aubrey Huff. IF thats the case, you could make a point that Huff is more valuable then Magglio. I'd take Huff over Magglio, but thats just me. And I haven't added if the Sox did a Magglio for Perez or Garcia/Mota/Top Prospect they could turn around and deal that top prospect, Rauch, and one more solid prospect...maybe Borchard for Aubrey Huff who would provide the left handed pop. The Sox would then sign Ponson as rumored and they'd basically be even on Magg's salary but would have Perez/Garcia, Mota, Ponson, and Aubrey Huff. Then they could turn and move Jose Valentin to Seattle or another interested team in exchange for a relief pitcher or possibly expand the Dodger deal and get Itzuris in return (not likely). They would then do the Koch for Weathers (add a mill) and use that difference to get one last reliever, preferably a lefty like Rhodes/Gabe White. Harris - 2nd (500 K) Carlos Lee - lf (6 mill; somewhere heard KW thinks he can get him 5 yr 15 mill) Thomas - DH (6.5 mill) Aubrey Huff - rf (1 mill) Paul Konerko - 1st (8 mill; maybe its 7, gonna go with 8) Joe Crede - 3rd - (750 K) Jeremy Reed - cf (Or Rowand or FA signing) (500 k) Miguel Olivo - (500 K) Juan Uribe - (750 K) Total Payroll without Roberts (23.75) Total Payroll with Roberts (24.75...will add one mill; he's not due much) The big flaw is the Sox have a lack of a leadoff hitter. But the Orioles are rumored to have Brian Roberts on the block...acquire him and your set, and move Harris to cf and put him in the 9 hole and leave Reed in the minors. Rotation Elo - 4 mill Buehrle - 3.5 mill Ponson - 6 mill Perez (preferably)/Garcia - 6 mill Garland - 2 mill Total Rotation Payroll = 21.5 Running Total = 46.25 mill Bullpen Mota - 1 mill - estimate Marte - 1 mill - estimate Weathers - 3 mill Rhodes/Gabe White/Wunsch - 2.5 mill (Thats if you get Rhodes/Gabe White, but I could see them signing for 2 mill) Wright - 750 K Grilli/Munoz/Sanders/Majewski - 400 K Total Bullpen Payroll = 9.75 Running Total = 56 million Add Cash Considertations of 1 mill for Koch Total Payroll = 57 million The Sox still have room to add a quality bench guy or even decide to pick up a shortstop. I never inserted the player the Sox would get in return for a trade for Jose Valentin, but I'd think the Sox would go for a reliever or a middle infielder. The potential deal breakers: Will the Dodgers deal Perez/Mota/Top Prospect for Magglio???? (If they acquire Freddy Garcia, then I think YES). Will the Devil Rays deal Huff for Edwin Jackson, Jon Rauch, and another prospect, likely Joe Borchard. If necessary insert another good pitching prospect instead of Rauch or even two. But Jackson, Borchard and another pitching prospect, I'd think would be enough. Will Ponson sign for 6 mill a year??? I'd say it be a good team and it definately fits the budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 You know, that's actually a pretty goddamn scary team. There is a chance, not a very good chance, but a chance, that that team could actually do something. I am almost thinking the exact same thing, minus a few details, though I had forgotten that Tampa supposedly at one time had Huff on the block. If we did that Maggs trade, I would give them Diaz, Borchard and Rauch if we could get Huff. Aubrey Huff can hit, and he might be the LH fire power we need in the middle of our lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 You know, that's actually a pretty goddamn scary team. There is a chance, not a very good chance, but a chance, that that team could actually do something. I am almost thinking the exact same thing, minus a few details, though I had forgotten that Tampa supposedly at one time had Huff on the block. If we did that Maggs trade, I would give them Diaz, Borchard and Rauch if we could get Huff. Aubrey Huff can hit, and he might be the LH fire power we need in the middle of our lineup. I just added salaries into it and shockingly it came out under what the Sox so called budget is. I'd give up quite a few guys to get Huff. The guy is just entering his prime and right now still has a few years before he's a free agent (I think 3 more). In all honesty, I'd try to sign him to a buehrle-esque extension, for a little less cash though). You got to like that offense. It has power, average, OBP, some speed. Slownerko, Thomas and Crede would be the slow guys, most everyone else with decent speed. Roberts, Harris, Uribe/Itzuris, Olivo would be very fast. Lee and Huff with solid speed. And pitching wise, you got to like that rotation. If Perez reverts to two years ago and Ponson pitches similar to last season, Buehrle does his thing and Elo stays similar, you'd have four pretty damn good pitchers and Garland would be a hell of a fifth with the potential to be more. And a pen with Mota, Weathers, Marte and Rhodes/Gabe White would contain 4 valuable arms. Two vet arms (Weathers/White), your two stud arms that are cheap (Marte/Mota) and then Wright (Some damn good stuff and your long) and time for a youngster to develop slowly. The bench contains Rowand, Alomar Jr, FA signings (Daubach type player), and another infielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 arris - 2nd (500 K) Carlos Lee - lf (6 mill; somewhere heard KW thinks he can get him 5 yr 15 mill) Thomas - DH (6.5 mill) Aubrey Huff - rf (1 mill) Paul Konerko - 1st (8 mill; maybe its 7, gonna go with 8) Joe Crede - 3rd - (750 K) Jeremy Reed - cf (Or Rowand or FA signing) (500 k) Miguel Olivo - (500 K) Juan Uribe - (750 K) If you place Juan Uribe in the SS position then who becomes the utility player. I know its not a great concern at this point but who else could fill the role. I'm not too familiar with players available on the market that could fill a utility position, but trading Valentine leads the sox to bump up Uribe and leave his spot vacant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 If you place Juan Uribe in the SS position then who becomes the utility player. I know its not a great concern at this point but who else could fill the role. I'm not too familiar with players available on the market that could fill a utility position, but trading Valentine leads the sox to bump up Uribe and leave his spot vacant. Thats the big iff. I never figured what you got for Jose Valentin in the deal, but you could acquire a middle infield type player for him. Or if the Mariners don't get Nomar, you could swing a deal for Carlos Guillen or something like that. Im' sure there are a few utility type players out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 It is sick how good this team could be. Personally, I think we have the right guy in charge doing it. I think KW can get it done.....or atleast I hope he will. I'm still trying to soak in what that team could do, and with a new manager who would light a fire under your ass....this team could be for real. If possible I would trade Konerko for something else. There are better options to use at 1B....hell, we trade Konerko, and we can have Raffy Palmeiro and Thomas split time at 1B and DH....that would be a decent lineup too and would add another lefty in there as well. Raffy's always good for 25-35 homers. And doesn't USCF have a viagra advertisement somewhere around? I was pretty sure they did....maybe that would be an attracting point for Raffy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 It is sick how good this team could be. Personally, I think we have the right guy in charge doing it. I think KW can get it done.....or atleast I hope he will. I'm still trying to soak in what that team could do, and with a new manager who would light a fire under your ass....this team could be for real. If possible I would trade Konerko for something else. There are better options to use at 1B....hell, we trade Konerko, and we can have Raffy Palmeiro and Thomas split time at 1B and DH....that would be a decent lineup too and would add another lefty in there as well. Raffy's always good for 25-35 homers. And doesn't USCF have a viagra advertisement somewhere around? I was pretty sure they did....maybe that would be an attracting point for Raffy. Ya, if they could move Konerko and save a mill or two, get a prospect or some type of potentially valuable player and sign Raffy, I wouldn't have any problem with that, cause it give you two good lefty hitters (Huff/Palmeiro) and two big time right hitters (Frank/Caballo...to a lesser extent Crede). Plus, Palmerio wouldn't take up a long term type deal. If the Sox paid 2 mill this year and 2 mill next year in salary for Konerko and got Raffy for about 4 mill, they'd save 2 mill this year. I think it would be worth it. But I didn't want to put that type of thing into the scenario. This scenario is more likely cause it basically says the Sox make two moves...well 3, including signing Ponson. I'm with you though...this is one of my favorite possibilities all season. The team would have speed, power, average hitters, defense (Harris or Brian Roberts and Uribe/Itzuris up the middle would be pretty, Palmerio is still solid at first, Crede is sweet, Olivo is sweet, Lee is solid, Rowand/Harris is more then solid in center, and Huff is solid in right. Check that, this is my favorite possibility because it is possible...financially and I think the proposed deals are rather fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Pitching and Defense.. Pitching and Defense.... Huff is awfull on Defense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 Pitching and Defense.. Pitching and Defense.... Huff is awfull on Defense Is he that bad, I thought he was solid...nothing more, nothing less. Well other then Huff, they would be more then fine defensively. And their infield would be pretty sweet defensively. And could you really knock that pitching staff? Ton of innings from starters and relievers. COME ON KW...DO IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Is he that bad, I thought he was solid...nothing more, nothing less. Well other then Huff, they would be more then fine defensively. And their infield would be pretty sweet defensively. And could you really knock that pitching staff? Ton of innings from starters and relievers. COME ON KW...DO IT Here the Numbers Jason.. RF 102 Games 190 Putouts 5 assists 6 Errors .970 Fielding Pct. League Average .980 Range Factor 2.07 League Average 2.11 Those are last year without the numbers that he played at first and third. As a Hitter he has nice numbers and is Lefthanded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Did anyone else notice the title of this thread? "Sox" Williamson. I'm not trying to be picky, but it just caught my eye. I think Williamson would be a good addition to our bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 Ok, he'd definately be a better fit in left field or first...so if the Sox can move Konerko, sign someone like Jay Payton or something along those lines to play right (Instead of going after Raffy). Otherwise, just stick with the plan and suffer a bit in right. Definately go with Harris in center and let his sick range do the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I would like Huff if he's the DH. Really good Numbers and only K's 80 times which was good plus 47 Doubles. I just want the team to concentrate on fundamentals, Pitching and Defense, Small ball. Those things are somethign we've been lacking for some time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 I would like Huff if he's the DH. Really good Numbers and only K's 80 times which was good plus 47 Doubles. I just want the team to concentrate on fundamentals, Pitching and Defense, Small ball. Those things are somethign we've been lacking for some time But with Roberts, Uribe/Itzuris, Harris, and Olivo you'd still have small ball guys, wouldn't you? And Crede could be included in that as well. And defensively Roberts/Uribe/Itzuris would be a pretty damn nice up the middle combo. Crede is a stud at 3rd, Konerko is solid at first, Olivo a stud behind the plate and Harris has sick range in cf. Lee is avg, Huff a bit below avg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 From what I could tell, he was slightly below average....literally slightly below. Ten points in fielding percentage and 4 points in range factor? That's not that big of a deal IMO. And if he gets bad enough, no one has said that we can't maybe take on a decent hitter in the last year of his contract who we have no intent on keeping(I mean, we did it with Carl, we can do it again). If Reggie Sanders signs a 1-year deal somewhere, I'm sure we could get him, or if Bobby Higginson is in the last year of his deal(I'm not sure if he is or isn't, I'd have to check), he'd be an option as well. Anyways, I'd absolutely love to see a team similar to that on the field next year. I think that team actually would kick ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 But with Roberts, Uribe/Itzuris, Harris, and Olivo you'd still have small ball guys, wouldn't you? And Crede could be included in that as well. And defensively Roberts/Uribe/Itzuris would be a pretty damn nice up the middle combo. Crede is a stud at 3rd, Konerko is solid at first, Olivo a stud behind the plate and Harris has sick range in cf. Lee is avg, Huff a bit below avg. Sorry man Konerko ain't solid at first. That's one of the Reasons I want him traded. Can scoop up a cold on low throws has no range and clogs up the basepaths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Sorry man Konerko ain't solid at first. That's one of the Reasons I want him traded. Can scoop up a cold on low throws has no range and clogs up the basepaths Yeah, I'd have to agree. Konerko is far from solid at 1B. He's got a good glove, but has range 2 feet to the left and right of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 Well, with something else on subject. Phil Rogers wrote an article regarding Scott Williamson as well as the Maggs/LA deal. In short, sources say that Williams offered a starting pitcher for Williamson - the question is whether it was Wright or Rauch (I'd hope it was Rauch). He also mentions that the big hold up in the Dodgers/Sox deal is Mota. But with the Dodgers leaving the meeting without a deal, it will make them more prone to potentially give in. You have to wonder, without Mota/Perez/Brown/Sully what will the Dodgers have for pitching. I understand they'll probably resign Alvarez and they get Dreifort back as well as getting Weaver, but it still isn't outstanding. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...tesox-headlines It should be an interesting week. I think by Friday, Magglio could be dealt (Just my hunch). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 Yeah, I'd have to agree. Konerko is far from solid at 1B. He's got a good glove, but has range 2 feet to the left and right of him. I like Konerko's arm and glove....its solid for first baseman. His range does suck, but most 1st baseman's do. He's not my favorite option though, but I think it will be tough as nails to deal him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Harris - 2nd (500 K) Carlos Lee - lf (6 mill; somewhere heard KW thinks he can get him 5 yr 15 mill) Thomas - DH (6.5 mill) Aubrey Huff - rf (1 mill) Paul Konerko - 1st (8 mill; maybe its 7, gonna go with 8) Joe Crede - 3rd - (750 K) Jeremy Reed - cf (Or Rowand or FA signing) (500 k) Miguel Olivo - (500 K) Juan Uribe - (750 K) I'd like this lineup. Roberts or Harriston at 2nd would be a more stable leadoff hitter for sure. I'd make that happen. I'd make it a priority after pitching of course. If they are so high on Harris, he could beat out Rowand or Reed for CF. Is Huff as big of a defensive liability at first as Frank might be? What if Huff played first and Konerko was traded. Juan Gone could play right. Just a thought in case KW was set on getting Juan Gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Well, with something else on subject. Phil Rogers wrote an article regarding Scott Williamson as well as the Maggs/LA deal. In short, sources say that Williams offered a starting pitcher for Williamson - the question is whether it was Wright or Rauch (I'd hope it was Rauch). He also mentions that the big hold up in the Dodgers/Sox deal is Mota. But with the Dodgers leaving the meeting without a deal, it will make them more prone to potentially give in. You have to wonder, without Mota/Perez/Brown/Sully what will the Dodgers have for pitching. I understand they'll probably resign Alvarez and they get Dreifort back as well as getting Weaver, but it still isn't outstanding. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...tesox-headlines It should be an interesting week. I think by Friday, Magglio could be dealt (Just my hunch). If the Sox can pull that off for Danny Wrong I'll jump for Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.