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Sox Interested in Sox Williamson


Chisoxfn

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Well, with something else on subject.  Phil Rogers wrote an article regarding Scott Williamson as well as the Maggs/LA deal. 

 

In short, sources say that Williams offered a starting pitcher for Williamson - the question is whether it was Wright or Rauch (I'd hope it was Rauch). 

 

He also mentions that the big hold up in the Dodgers/Sox deal is Mota.  But with the Dodgers leaving the meeting without a deal, it will make them more prone to potentially give in. 

 

You have to wonder, without Mota/Perez/Brown/Sully what will the Dodgers have for pitching.  I understand they'll probably resign Alvarez and they get Dreifort back as well as getting Weaver, but it still isn't outstanding. 

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...tesox-headlines

 

It should be an interesting week.  I think by Friday, Magglio could be dealt (Just my hunch).

I saw the article, good article.

 

You wouldn't think that Mota would be THE sticking point in a deal. However, if he is, I'd give them a pitching prospect if needed to smooth the deal out and get it done.....maybe Diaz or even Wright.

 

I do agree though. I think a deal could happen, and it could happen before we are all ready to say good bye to Maggs. It'd be kind of hard right away, but after a little bit, it would sink in and hopefully we'd realize what we all got. I still can't believe that we may get 2 of LA's top pitching prospects, Mota AND Perez, all for Maggs. If this deal can get done, it would do so much for the White Sox, it's sick to think of it all.

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I'd like this lineup. Roberts or Harriston at 2nd would be a more stable leadoff hitter for sure. I'd make that happen. I'd make it a priority after pitching of course. If they are so high on Harris, he could beat out Rowand or Reed for CF.

 

Is Huff as big of a defensive liability at first as Frank might be? What if Huff played first and Konerko was traded. Juan Gone could play right. Just a thought in case KW was set on getting Juan Gone.

If Huff is a liability in right, then Juan Gone is a big time liability in right.

 

Plus, I think its gonna be very hard for the Sox to deal Konerko and get any type of quality in return. Odds are they are best, if they can put together a damn good team with him playing first (If the sox do as I proposed, it would be done) then they could let him play the year...if he puts up big time numbers, then the Sox could move him in for some thing good in return and free up room to give Elo, and a few others extensions (as long as they prove themselves).

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Like I said, if they turn it into Magglio, Rauch/Pacheco, and Borchard into Ponson, Perez, Mota, and Aubry Huff...you won't here me crying. 

 

And if they get Williamson on top of that, once again, not a cry out of me.

I really don't wanna give up on Pacheco

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If Huff is a liability in right, then Juan Gone is a big time liability in right. 

 

Plus, I think its gonna be very hard for the Sox to deal Konerko and get any type of quality in return.  Odds are they are best, if they can put together a damn good team with him playing first (If the sox do as I proposed, it would be done) then they could let him play the year...if he puts up big time numbers, then the Sox could move him in for some thing good in return and free up room to give Elo, and a few others extensions (as long as they prove themselves).

I love Pacheco...but if it landed Huff, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I think Huff is an absolute stud on offense. He's just 26, will be 27 by the start of the season and is coming into a zone on offense.

 

Quick question, how much does playing in Tampa, if any, inflate the stats. I am not too familiar with the dimensions of their park, but it always seems small.

 

I'd much prefer a Jackson, Rauch, Borchard deal...or even Danny Wright in the deal if necessary and then move Rauch for Williamson.

 

Of course if they could keep Jackson and give up Pacheco, Rauch, Borchard, then I wouldn't have a problem at all. I'd love to keep Jackson. Personally I think he'd instantly become our top pitching prospect. From what i saw of him with the Dodgers when he came up late in the season, he's an absolute freaking STUD.

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Audrey Huff at one mill is gonna be a STEAL. (TB is not stupid)

 

Hell, I can learn to live with his defense in RF-- Sammy Sosa type rangeless butcher.

The only reason I could even see them making that deal is for pitching depth, which is what they need. The Sox could possibly have the prospects to get the deal done. The Dodgers reportedly balked at the Drays asking price, but who knows

 

Rauch, Pacheco, Borchard could potentially do it...and if Jackson was in instead of Pacheco, I'd defiantely say thats enough. But if it took more, I wouldn't be against it.

 

I'm a big Huff fan though.

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If Mota is the sticking point in the Dodger trade, why not work him out of the trade.

 

What if Laduca were to be traded in a package goes to Seattle for Garcia and Winn

 

Dodgers then move Winn, Perez, and 2 hot pitching prospects to the Sox for Ordonez.

 

Mota is out of the picture. The Sox get Winn as a leadoff hitter CF, a starting pitcher, pitchers for the future or to trade and payroll savings.

 

Get Roberts/Harrison as #2 hitter. Talk about speed at the top of the lineup.

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If Mota is the sticking point in the Dodger trade, why not work him out of the trade.

 

What if Laduca were to be traded in a package goes to Seattle for Garcia and Winn

 

Dodgers then move Winn, Perez, and 2 hot pitching prospects to the Sox for Ordonez.

 

Mota is out of the picture.  The Sox get Winn as a leadoff hitter CF, a starting pitcher, pitchers for the future or to trade and payroll savings.

 

Get Roberts/Harrison as #2 hitter.  Talk about speed at the top of the lineup.

That be fine with me, but then the deal becomes a bit more complicated.

 

But I do think Mota is a big pickup cause he really helps stabilize the pen and gives the Sox two quality major leaguers to show for Maggs, plus one top prospect. Of course Wynn, Perez and two prospects would be something to listen too...but would the Dodgesr give up two prospects??? I think they will be hard pressed to get one.

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That be fine with me, but then the deal becomes a bit more complicated. 

 

But I do think Mota is a big pickup cause he really helps stabilize the pen and gives the Sox two quality major leaguers to show for Maggs, plus one top prospect.  Of course Wynn, Perez and two prospects would be something to listen too...but would the Dodgesr give up two prospects???  I think they will be hard pressed to get one.

I'd like to get Mota too but I'd hate it to break the deal. The Seattle thing fits other rumors. Hell, include Valentin to Seattle and have our own poor-man's Pay-Rod blockbuster trade. I guess I'm getting impatient for something to happen and excited about the possibilities.

 

Roberts or Harriston ( I feel obligated to mention them in every post)

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I'd like to get Mota too but I'd hate it to break the deal.  The Seattle thing fits other rumors.  Hell, include Valentin to Seattle and have our own poor-man's Pay-Rod blockbuster trade.  I guess I'm getting impatient for something to happen and excited about the possibilities.

 

Roberts or Harriston ( I feel obligated to mention them in every post)

I'd make the Dodgers pay up, plain and simple. Kenny shouldn't bend or anything like that. This is a fair offer for both sides, imo. If Kenny plays strong, I think the deal gets done.

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1. Don't trade Konerko or Koch NOW. Wait until they show something during spring training and first 6 weeks of the season. Their value should go higher. (readL from no value to ok value)

 

2. Maggs for Mota and their top prospect? Sure. Then we'll save a ton of dough to get Audrey Huff, Scott Williamson and a legitimaten ace pitcher. And Fullmer.

 

3. Borchard and Rauch are NO-NOs. Sorry, they are just too talented and cheap. Pacheco is a solid prospecxt as well. Odaliz Perez is very overrated, will be a DISASTER in AL and is FAR from cheap in 2004.

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I'd make the Dodgers pay up, plain and simple.  Kenny shouldn't bend or anything like that.  This is a fair offer for both sides, imo.  If Kenny plays strong, I think the deal gets done.

Bingo. I agree. The Dodgers balked on Huff because he's a lefty and with Green they need a righty for balance.

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1.  Don't trade Konerko or Koch NOW. Wait until they show something during spring training and first 6 weeks of the season.  Their value should go higher. (readL from no value to ok value)

 

2.  Maggs for Mota and their top prospect?  Sure. Then we'll  save a ton of dough to get Audrey Huff, Scott Williamson and a legitimaten ace pitcher. And Fullmer.

 

3.  Borchard and Rauch are NO-NOs.  Sorry, they are just too talented and cheap.  Pacheco is a solid prospecxt as well. Odaliz Perez is very overrated, will be a DISASTER in AL and is FAR from cheap in 2004.

I agree for the most part except Fullmer is off the market and Borchard is pretty expensive, IIRC it took a big contract to keep him from going to Stanford.

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1.  Don't trade Konerko or Koch NOW. Wait until they show something during spring training and first 6 weeks of the season.  Their value should go higher. (readL from no value to ok value)

 

2.  Maggs for Mota and their top prospect?  Sure. Then we'll  save a ton of dough to get Audrey Huff, Scott Williamson and a legitimaten ace pitcher. And Fullmer.

 

3.  Borchard and Rauch are NO-NOs.  Sorry, they are just too talented and cheap.  Pacheco is a solid prospecxt as well. Odaliz Perez is very overrated, will be a DISASTER in AL and is FAR from cheap in 2004.

Fullmer???

 

Didn't he sign With Tejas

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I agree for the most part except Fullmer is off the market and Borchard is pretty expensive, IIRC it took a big contract to keep him from going to Stanford.

1. s*** I forgot about Fullmer.

 

2. Borchard is all potential and there is no idea how good a slugger he'll be once his wrist tendonitis is healed. And it's not like Sox are gonna get the nobus back, away. That was paid in 2000. What we musy consider is his defense in RF in the future, solid base speed and awesome power potential for the next 5-6 years until free agency....Same for Rauch.

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The one sleeper is Tampa Bay who is supposedly looking to deal Aubrey Huff.  IF thats the case, you could make a point that Huff is more valuable then Magglio.  I'd take Huff over Magglio, but thats just me. 

 

And I haven't added if the Sox did a Magglio for Perez or Garcia/Mota/Top Prospect they could turn around and deal that top prospect, Rauch, and one more solid prospect...maybe Borchard for Aubrey Huff who would provide the left handed pop. 

 

The Sox would then sign Ponson as rumored and they'd basically be even on Magg's salary but would have Perez/Garcia, Mota, Ponson, and Aubrey Huff. 

 

Then they could turn and move Jose Valentin to Seattle or another interested team in exchange for a relief pitcher or possibly expand the Dodger deal and get Itzuris in return (not likely).  They would then do the Koch for Weathers (add a mill) and use that difference to get one last reliever, preferably a lefty like Rhodes/Gabe White.

 

Harris - 2nd (500 K)

Carlos Lee - lf (6 mill; somewhere heard KW thinks he can get him 5 yr 15 mill)

Thomas - DH (6.5 mill)

Aubrey Huff - rf (1 mill)

Paul Konerko - 1st (8 mill; maybe its 7, gonna go with 8)

Joe Crede - 3rd - (750 K)

Jeremy Reed - cf (Or Rowand or FA signing) (500 k)

Miguel Olivo - (500 K)

Juan Uribe - (750 K)

 

Total Payroll without Roberts (23.75)

Total Payroll with Roberts (24.75...will add one mill; he's not due much)

 

The big flaw is the Sox have a lack of a leadoff hitter.  But the Orioles are rumored to have Brian Roberts on the block...acquire him and your set, and move Harris to cf and put him in the 9 hole and leave Reed in the minors. 

 

Rotation

Elo - 4 mill

Buehrle - 3.5 mill

Ponson - 6 mill

Perez (preferably)/Garcia - 6 mill

Garland - 2 mill

 

Total Rotation Payroll = 21.5

Running Total = 46.25 mill

 

Bullpen

Mota - 1 mill - estimate

Marte - 1 mill - estimate

Weathers - 3 mill

Rhodes/Gabe White/Wunsch - 2.5 mill (Thats if you get Rhodes/Gabe White, but I could see them signing for 2 mill)

Wright - 750 K

Grilli/Munoz/Sanders/Majewski - 400 K

 

Total Bullpen Payroll = 9.75

Running Total = 56 million

Add Cash Considertations of 1 mill for Koch

Total Payroll = 57 million

 

The Sox still have room to add a quality bench guy or even decide to pick up a shortstop.  I never inserted the player the Sox would get in return for a trade for Jose Valentin, but I'd think the Sox would go for a reliever or a middle infielder.

 

The potential deal breakers:

Will the Dodgers deal Perez/Mota/Top Prospect for Magglio???? (If they acquire Freddy Garcia, then I think YES). 

 

Will the Devil Rays deal Huff for Edwin Jackson, Jon Rauch, and another prospect, likely Joe Borchard.  If necessary insert another good pitching prospect instead of Rauch or even two.  But Jackson, Borchard and another pitching prospect, I'd think would be enough. 

 

Will Ponson sign for 6 mill a year???

 

I'd say it be a good team and it definately fits the budget.

I really don't think that Tampa Bay is going to trade Huff. Why would they trade a talented, young, cheap, stud when they are trying to rebuild? It just doesn't make any sense and I think it is a BS rumor that is going around that he is available. The only way that they trade him is if a deal that is too good to pass up is offered, and while your purposal seems fair I doubt that it would be enough to knock their socks off.

 

In regards to your projected team, I don't like the idea of BOTH Harris and Uribe in the lineup together. Sure that would make for a good defensive middle infield, but that also makes for 2 holes on offense and one possible in the leadoff spot(I could stomach one of them starting and batting 9th though). I really think the Sox need to address the top of the order. It would be nice if the Sox could get either Winn or Guillen included in a deal for Maggs with Seattle, or maybe even Roberts in a deal for Maggs with LA, or possible swing a deal on the side and get either Hudson from Toronto or Roberts/Hairston/Mora from Baltimore. Anyway that you slice it I think the Sox need to find someone to leadoff. I would also like to move Lee to the 3 or 4 hole, especially if the Sox deal Maggs. They will need his run production more in those areas. I also think that Rowand is the favorite for the CF job at this point, and should be given a couple of months to show what he can do. Give Reed a couple of months in AAA since he has only spent half a season in the upper minors, and IF Rowand struggles AND Reed is doing well in AAA, than you can make a switch.

 

The pitching staff would be amazing, however, I think it is highly unlikely. To begin with I doubt that the Sox add two big salary starters. You have to remember that they are already about 5-7M over budget(after arbitration and assuming 58M is the target budget) so cutting that payroll AND adding 2 big salary starters is highly unlikely. Furthermore, I always like to give the 5th spot to a youngster. Giving good pitching prospects a chance to develop and building from within is a key component in building a championship calibur organization. Besides, the odds are that the Sox will most likely get a good pitching prospect in the upper minors/majors (Soriano, Johnson, Blackley, Nageotte, Jackson, Miller, Hanrahan) along with a starter in a deal involving Maggs. So giving that 5th spot to either the pitching prospect or someone from the group of Rauch/Diaz/Cotts would be a decent move, and odds are that at least one of the guys from that group can live up to their potential and put together a decent rookie year(they cant be much worse then the 3-11 6.75 ERA that the Sox got combined from the 5th spot last year).

 

The bullpen would be great, however, I got a feeling that the Sox won't be able to pry Mota away from LA. I think KW should then counter and tell LA to replace Mota with either Jackson or Miller instead. While it is not likely to get either of those two they might be more willing to trade one of those two instead of Mota considering that Mota will most likely play a big role next year for LA then either Jackson or Miller. I would love to see a deal of Perez, Miller/Jackson, and Hanrahan/Guettirez for Maggs(not sure if LA would give the Sox 2 top prospects, but it is worth trying and not as bad as Perez, Mota, and 2 top prospects like the papers were reporting/speculating). I would hate to see a deal get held up on Mota when KW might be able to still get a top pitching prospect instead. I hope that the Sox can swing the Koch for Weathers deal as well, however, it appears that the Sox might have to include a marginal prospect(prefered) or some money to make it happen. If the Sox did get Mota, than I doubt that they would add a big salary reliever, and I see little reason to with a bullpen of Marte, Wunsch, Koch(or Weathers), Mota, Wright(I think he could turn into a solid set up guy), and then 1 spot for a youngster that misses out on the 5th starters spot. I would be perfectly happy with that type of pen. Also see the part about financial constraints in the previous paragraph.

 

You have a very good mind chisoxfn, and seem to put good idea together that I often agree with. I wouldn't be disappointed if the above options went down, but I think some of them are highly unlikely at this point. The key, IMO, is the ARod deal NOT going down, because that probably means that Nomar will stay put. If Nomar is available, than that will probably eliminate either the M's or Dodgers from the Maggs sweepstakes and deal a severe blow to the Sox trading ability, which could result in the Sox taking a poor offer for Maggs because they have few options and need to move some salary. I am praying that the deal doesn't go down, because I see only negative implications for the Sox.

 

ps...I am very sorry about the length. I have tried to cut down, but sometimes I have to many ideas rolling around in my head.

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I really don't think that Tampa Bay is going to trade Huff. Why would they trade a talented, young, cheap, stud when they are trying to rebuild? It just doesn't make any sense and I think it is a BS rumor that is going around that he is available. The only way that they trade him is if a deal that is too good to pass up is offered, and while your purposal seems fair I doubt that it would be enough to knock their socks off.

 

In regards to your projected team, I don't like the idea of BOTH Harris and Uribe in the lineup together. Sure that would make for a good defensive middle infield, but that also makes for 2 holes on offense and one possible in the leadoff spot(I could stomach one of them starting and batting 9th though). I really think the Sox need to address the top of the order. It would be nice if the Sox could get either Winn or Guillen included in a deal for Maggs with Seattle, or maybe even Roberts in a deal for Maggs with LA, or possible swing a deal on the side and get either Hudson from Toronto or Roberts/Hairston/Mora from Baltimore. Anyway that you slice it I think the Sox need to find someone to leadoff. I would also like to move Lee to the 3 or 4 hole, especially if the Sox deal Maggs. They will need his run production more in those areas. I also think that Rowand is the favorite for the CF job at this point, and should be given a couple of months to show what he can do. Give Reed a couple of months in AAA since he has only spent half a season in the upper minors, and IF Rowand struggles AND Reed is doing well in AAA, than you can make a switch.

 

The pitching staff would be amazing, however, I think it is highly unlikely. To begin with I doubt that the Sox add two big salary starters. You have to remember that they are already about 5-7M over budget(after arbitration and assuming 58M is the target budget) so cutting that payroll AND adding 2 big salary starters is highly unlikely. Furthermore, I always like to give the 5th spot to a youngster. Giving good pitching prospects a chance to develop and building from within is a key component in building a championship calibur organization. Besides, the odds are that the Sox will most likely get a good pitching prospect in the upper minors/majors (Soriano, Johnson, Blackley, Nageotte, Jackson, Miller, Hanrahan) along with a starter in a deal involving Maggs. So giving that 5th spot to either the pitching prospect or someone from the group of Rauch/Diaz/Cotts would be a decent move, and odds are that at least one of the guys from that group can live up to their potential and put together a decent rookie year(they cant be much worse then the 3-11 6.75 ERA that the Sox got combined from the 5th spot last year).

 

The bullpen would be great, however, I got a feeling that the Sox won't be able to pry Mota away from LA. I think KW should then counter and tell LA to replace Mota with either Jackson or Miller instead. While it is not likely to get either of those two they might be more willing to trade one of those two instead of Mota considering that Mota will most likely play a big role next year for LA then either Jackson or Miller. I would love to see a deal of Perez, Miller/Jackson, and Hanrahan/Guettirez for Maggs(not sure if LA would give the Sox 2 top prospects, but it is worth trying and not as bad as Perez, Mota, and 2 top prospects like the papers were reporting/speculating). I would hate to see a deal get held up on Mota when KW might be able to still get a top pitching prospect instead. I hope that the Sox can swing the Koch for Weathers deal as well, however, it appears that the Sox might have to include a marginal prospect(prefered) or some money to make it happen. If the Sox did get Mota, than I doubt that they would add a big salary reliever, and I see little reason to with a bullpen of Marte, Wunsch, Koch(or Weathers), Mota, Wright(I think he could turn into a solid set up guy), and then 1 spot for a youngster that misses out on the 5th starters spot. I would be perfectly happy with that type of pen. Also see the part about financial constraints in the previous paragraph.

 

You have a very good mind chisoxfn, and seem to put good idea together that I often agree with. I wouldn't be disappointed if the above options went down, but I think some of them are highly unlikely at this point. The key, IMO, is the ARod deal NOT going down, because that probably means that Nomar will stay put. If Nomar is available, than that will probably eliminate either the M's or Dodgers from the Maggs sweepstakes and deal a severe blow to the Sox trading ability, which could result in the Sox taking a poor offer for Maggs because they have few options and need to move some salary. I am praying that the deal doesn't go down, because I see only negative implications for the Sox.

 

ps...I am very sorry about the length. I have tried to cut down, but sometimes I have to many ideas rolling around in my head.

Couldn't agree more with you about having Uribe and Harris out there. If they could pick up Wynn that would be sweet. Would the Mariners do Wynn for Jose (I never figured into the mix what the Sox would get for Jose). I just assumed that the only way the Dodgers would be interested in this is if they didn't get Nomar or if the Arod/Manny deal never went down. If the deal didn't go down, then I would presume that the Mariners would be willing to do this.

 

Then the Sox would add about 2 mill to the projected payroll (Which includes picking up money to move Koch...although you are right, they'd probably stick with Wunsch at 750 k compared to getting Rhodes or Gabe White, which would basically make that 2 mill addition null and void..meaning the 57 mill estimtae would be on pace, even with Wynn).

 

Then you have

Randy Wynn

Carlos Lee (I like him in the 2 hole, quick, protection, and gets things started, although I'd have no problem with him in the 3 hole with Frank in the 4 hole and Huff behind him). In that caues I'd insert Willie Harris (Or if they dealt someone like Ginter for Brian Roberts...O's need some pitching put him there and let Harris be the utility guy)

Thomas

Huff

Konerko

Crede

Olivo

Uribe

 

And the rotation stays the same with a bullpen of: Mota, Marte, Koch (Weathers), Wunsch, Wright, Grilli...if you deal Wright, then insert Williamson.

 

Still very very solid and meets payroll.

 

The big key is what happens with Nomar and will the Drays take Huff.

 

And if the Sox don't want to invest in Ponson, reports out of Anaheim indicate that they will non tender Jarrod Washburn, who'd I'd love the Sox to bring in. Washburn is probably tops on my list.

 

If they sox were able to strictly deal Maggs for Mota and prospects (not very likely) and sign Garcia (After he's non tendered) and Washburn then I'd be quite pleased cause you could do it for a little less. The thing is that the Dodgers probably aren't willing to do that deal and this deal would only happen after Dec. 20th when the Sox would be assured they could get those guys, which is still a big if.

 

There are a lot of backup scenarios, but I think the best possible deals are with the Dodgers or Mariners and like you say hoping that Nomar either doesn't leave Boston or that he goes to Anaheim or another team. As long as the Dodgers and Mariners are in the race for Maggs, it means they can use eachother to raise the price.

 

For example...Wynn/Garcia/Soriano for Jose and Magglio or the dodgers Mota/Perez/Edwin Jackson (I absolutely love this kid...freaking stuf of a pitcher).

 

Dont' mind it if the Sox get one of their other top prospects (I have no interest in Guiterez simply because the Sox have enough outfield bats in the system...imo..and I'd rather get stud pitching). This is if they didn't get Mota, and then the Sox could use Rauch or someone else to land Williamson.

 

Simply put the Sox have a ton of options, especially if they can move Maggs, save some cash, add a starter or two and a reliever/top prospect. Then they can work a few other trades and FA signings and be in a hell of a position.

 

Will it happen, who the hell knows.

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Reggie Sanders signed with the Cardinals!!!

 

 

See SPORTSCENTER!

 

:fthecubs

Oh well, not that big of a deal. Not like we were in the hunt to get him anyways.

 

I'm still liking the ideas that are coming out of this thread though. And if Mota is the sticking point, KW seriously needs to have his brain tested, because in all honesty, that's pretty simple to figure out. Either give them a decent prospect(a Diaz-type), give them money, or both. The guy is a good relief pitcher, and I would really like to see him on the Sox next year. If he's the sticking point, then just add a little something and get it done with. We'll see if Dan Evans was just being a jackass and trying to play us, or if he was actually serious. If he is actually serious, Maggs will be wearing blue and white next year.

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