Maggs should stay

[Ozzietheairedale]

I've been reading these posts all day today and listening to the radio.

 

I think I'm one of the only people to say "Let's keep Maggs". Nomar's average away from Fenway is around 250 and he hasn't been the same since injuring his wrist. This sounds like another KW deal like Todd Ritchie, David Wells, Bartolo Colon, Carl Everett, Roberto Alomar. We end up giving something way for ultimately nothing.

 

The only way this works for me is if we immediately trade Nomar for some young locked up pitching.

[Flash Tizzle]

The only way this works for me is if we immediately trade Nomar for some  young locked up pitching.

I agree, but KW isnt making it easier on himself by screwing LA out of directly acquirin Nomar. Its like a slap in the face, though some could argue its just business. LA had to chance to be in the three way deal for Nomar but decided that keeping their pitching was more valuable......now they can sit back and watch Irod and Vlad sign with the 0's.

[HighHeat45]

this just shows that KW doesnt want to win a WS, why would he give one of the best players in the AL to the now best team in the AL for someone that is just as good as him that boston doesnt need , it just doesnt make sense, he and all other GMs should be trying to stop this trade from happening

[Harry Chappas]

I agree, but KW isnt making it easier on himself by screwing LA out of directly acquirin Nomar.  Its like a slap in the face, though some could argue its just business.  LA had to chance to be in the three way deal for Nomar but decided that keeping their pitching was more valuable......now they can sit back and watch Irod and Vlad sign with the 0's.

Who would Boston want that LA has? Boston isn't looking for youth, they want Maggs. It is up to KW to make the deal work in our favor with both Boston and LA.

[The Bones]

I would rather have Nomar. SS is one of the biggest needs for the Sox right now. C Lee is progressing every year and I think he will be a Magglio type player throughout his career.

[witesoxfan]

We get the top tier SS we've always wanted AND a pretty damn good reliever, while giving up a good OFer who is NOT worth $14 mill a year, and now we are COMPLAINING? Now we get to TRADE Jose and we'll get some kind of value in return(maybe Carlos Guillen from Seattle, who will then play 2B for us....an up-the-middle combo that has Guillen and Garciaparra....not as good defensively as Jose and Robby, but it kicks their ass offensively). If we threw in like Wright and Diaz and then got Winn too....hot damn would we be in the driver's seat to win the division.

 

I swear if we as Sox fans are not complaining about something then we are not happy.

 

I bet there were a few Sox fans last year pissed that we got Colon for nothing. It boggles the mind.

 

I figure that if we get a decent starter somehow, someway, we are the favorites to win it...and this time I think it could actually be done.

[HighHeat45]

as long as nomar stays longer than 1 season ill be happy, but if we are sucking at the all-star break and Nomar is pissed about being here KW has to trade him to get some value in return

[Flash Tizzle]

Who would Boston want that LA has?  Boston isn't looking for youth, they want Maggs.  It is up to KW to make the deal work in our favor with both Boston and LA.

In the three way trade Nomar would of went directly to LA and we would of picked up Mota,Perez,Miller from Boston for Maggs. If Nomar goes to the Sox.....we might force LA to add in another player. Which wouldnt of happened in the original deal.

 

Or Sox could just keep Nomar and force LA to look elsewhere. But that wouldnt make sense because they still need offense and Sox still need pitching. Somewhere down the line we have to trade somebody to LA if we want our projected pitchers. Trading Nomar allows us to purse Guillen from Seattle. At SS, he would still be an upgrade over Valentine...though not to the extent of Nomar.

[HighHeat45]

Now LA is in the hunt for I-Rod or Vlad. f*** LA.

theyll fail....again

[witesoxfan]

In the three way trade Nomar would of went directly to LA and we would of picked up Mota,Perez,Miller from Boston for Maggs.  If Nomar goes to the Sox.....we might force LA to add in another player.  Which wouldnt of happened in the original deal.

 

Or Sox could just keep Nomar and force LA to look elsewhere.  But that wouldnt make sense because they still need offense and Sox still need pitching.  Somewhere down the line we have to trade somebody to LA if we want our projected pitchers.  Trading Nomar allows us to purse Guillen from Seattle. At SS, he would still be an upgrade over Valentine...though not to the extent of Nomar.

We have a guy by the name of Paul Konerko, remember him? Was nearly dealt to LA earlier this offseason? Trade him for Odalis Perez, straight up....it's a good move. You get a prospect or two, it's an even better move.

[Flash Tizzle]

Now LA is in the hunt for I-Rod or Vlad. f*** LA.

Rotoworld says Orioles are talking to three free agents: two of which are probably IROD and Vlad. LA can't outbid Orioles so they shouldnt attempt. Let them wallow in their own crapulence, as Mr. Burns would say.

[Chisoxfn]

We have a guy by the name of Paul Konerko, remember him?  Was nearly dealt to LA earlier this offseason?  Trade him for Odalis Perez, straight up....it's a good move.  You get a prospect or two, it's an even better move.

Thats what I see happening. The Sox can clear a little payroll that way and can keep a big bat...aka Nomar, and then move Jose for another pitcher or a leadoff type hitter.

[Flash Tizzle]

We have a guy by the name of Paul Konerko, remember him?  Was nearly dealt to LA earlier this offseason?  Trade him for Odalis Perez, straight up....it's a good move.  You get a prospect or two, it's an even better move.

If LA wont give up Molta, Perez, Miller for MAGGS what chance do we have of getting Perez and prospects for Paulie. I agree that Perez for Konerko straight up holds value, but we could get more from the Nomar trade. The Sox also have a higher probablility of filling SS compared to 1B. Their seems to be plans in place to trade Valentine, bump Uribe, and pursue Juan Gone (Acquiring Juan Gone is speculation, but its been reported that Sox management met with his agent).

 

If Nomar is kept on our team, we only save 2.75 million dollars from the Maggs trade. How can we get another 1b (if Konerko is traded) and fill our void in RF with that money?

[FUCKREINSDORF]

I'd love to keep Ordonez,but he'll never make more than he will this year.And as usual,KW will trade away the farm and this will be WORSE than the Todd Ritchie deal,God forbid.You make this deal ONLY if you can get the pitching and Nomah says he'll sign an extension (which i'm sure he won't.He's a SoCal kind of guy).

God,this team depresses me.2004 will be year # 45 without a WS appearance.Thank God for the Tigers or we'd really be screwed.The Royals and Twins are still better than the Sox.Why,Why,why?!?!?!

[Elcaballo45]

I would rather have Nomar. SS is one of the biggest needs for the Sox right now. C Lee is progressing every year and I think he will be a Magglio type player throughout his career.

I second that notion

[Flash Tizzle]

Then again, if Nomar is kept Valentine could still be traded for Garcia....Konerko for Perez....and Reed could play RF.

 

Too many scenarios....

[witesoxfan]

Thats what I see happening.  The Sox can clear a little payroll that way and can keep a big bat...aka Nomar, and then move Jose for another pitcher or a leadoff type hitter.

Assuming we got Perez for Konerko....we'd have 4 starters locked into the rotation(Buehrle, Loaiza, Garland, and Perez), 4 relievers locked in(3 are for-sure's....Marte, Wunsch, and Williamson....and then one of Koch or Weathers), and an offense with Olivo catching, ???/Thomas at 1B, either an unproven player or someone brought in at 2B, Garciaparra at SS, Crede at 3B, Lee in LF, Rowand/Harris in CF, and then someone brought into the organization or Rowand in RF, with the other player not playing 1B DHing.

 

I figure we then trade Jose to Seattle for Winn or Guillen, and if it's Winn, he plays CF with Rowand playing RF while Willie plays 2B, or if it's Guillen, he plays 2B, Harris plays CF and Rowand plays RF. We then either use an in-house starter(Scho or Grilli) and get a couple relievers somehow, someway, or we sign a starter and use Grilli and Scho out of the pen.

 

This is starting to pump me the hell up. I want it to get done now.

[witesoxfan]

If LA wont give up Molta, Perez, Miller for MAGGS what chance do we have of getting Perez and prospects for Paulie.  I agree that Perez for Konerko straight up holds value, but we could get more from the Nomar trade.  The Sox also have a higher probablility of filling SS compared to 1B.  Their seems to be plans in place to trade Valentine, bump Uribe, and pursue Juan Gone (Acquiring Juan Gone is speculation, but its been reported that Sox management met with his agent).

 

If Nomar is kept on our team, we only save 2.75 million dollars from the Maggs trade.  How can we get another 1b (if Konerko is traded) and fill our void in RF with that money?

Right now, the lineup(with Valentin at 2B and Konerko at 1B, Rowand in RF and Harris in CF) is making about $39 mill, the rotation $18 mill, and the bullpen making $12 mill. At that state, and adding in about $5 mill for the bench, you are at about $74 mill. You then trade Kong for Perez(+/- prospects, doesn't matter), and Valentin for preferably Guillen, and you save about $5-6 mill in the Kong deal and $3 mill in the Valentin deal, which could take the payroll from that $74 mill number to $65 mill. You then can trade Koch for Weathers, and that would be a savings of roughly $2 mill, which leaves us at $63 mill.

 

That's $5 mill over the wanted payroll. And while many people here believe that JR could be willing to go a little over that, I could be wrong with some of my numbers. Lee may make $5 or $6 mill next year in the first year of his deal, possibly even less. I'll say he makes $6, which would bring the total down to $62 mill. I had Scho making $2 mill....he might make $1.5, he might not even be a White Sox pitcher next year....who knows. I'll say $1.5. I had Marte making $1.5, he might make $1 mill, he may make $3...who knows. I'll keep that where it is.

 

At that point it's at $61.5. However, I also had included two minor league pitchers, and with the moves we would have made, only one would be needed....bringing us down to about $61.2. And I rounded up from I believe $11.85-->$12 mill, $17.8 mill--> $18 mill, and $38.95 mill-->$39 mill. Those numbers bring us below $61 mill. Also, the bench may make more and may make less then $5 mill. I would actually venture to guess that it will make more around $3.5-$4 mill then the $5 mill I said it would, bringing it down to below $60 mill.

 

I don't think JR would die if the payroll were about $59.5 mill, or $1.5 over the wanted payroll. Hell, maybe he'd realize it's Christmas time and that he's been a grinch for the past 25 years he's owned the White Sox, and that he'll give KW $5 mill extra, and we go out and sign Juan Gonzalez. I'm not counting on it though.

[winninguglyin83]

if we hose the Dodgers by plucking Nomar, my hunch is they're not going to trade anybody to us.

 

especially a pitcher for an overpaid first baseman who would create very little buzz in L.A. because long-time Dodger fans view Konerko was one of their old overhyped prospects.

 

Mix in the Evans/KW relationship and I just don't see any Sox/LA deal.

[witesoxfan]

if we hose the Dodgers by plucking Nomar, my hunch is they're not going to trade anybody to us.

 

especially a pitcher for an overpaid first baseman who would create very little buzz in L.A. because long-time Dodger fans view Konerko was one of their old overhyped prospects.

 

Mix in the Evans/KW relationship and I just don't see any Sox/LA deal.

Where else are they going to get offense from then? Are they going to resign Jeromy Burnitz and Rickey Henderson and hope for a miracle again?

 

They are desperate to get rid of Odalis, and really have no where else to look. They could sign Javy Lopez/Ivan Rodriguez, but that's about as far as they'd get on the FA market as it is.

 

I think a Perez-for-Konerko deal is very possible.

[Chisoxfn]

Assuming we got Perez for Konerko....we'd have 4 starters locked into the rotation(Buehrle, Loaiza, Garland, and Perez), 4 relievers locked in(3 are for-sure's....Marte, Wunsch, and Williamson....and then one of Koch or Weathers), and an offense with Olivo catching, ???/Thomas at 1B, either an unproven player or someone brought in at 2B, Garciaparra at SS, Crede at 3B, Lee in LF, Rowand/Harris in CF, and then someone brought into the organization or Rowand in RF, with the other player not playing 1B DHing.

 

I figure we then trade Jose to Seattle for Winn or Guillen, and if it's Winn, he plays CF with Rowand playing RF while Willie plays 2B, or if it's Guillen, he plays 2B, Harris plays CF and Rowand plays RF.  We then either use an in-house starter(Scho or Grilli) and get a couple relievers somehow, someway, or we sign a starter and use Grilli and Scho out of the pen.

 

This is starting to pump me the hell up.  I want it to get done now.

We've been seeing eye to eye as of late

 

Thats exactly how I figure things will look. Sox will have two holes after all the trades work out...the 5th spot in the rotation, and the cf/2nd base slot...plus you have right field.

 

Right field and the 5th spot will be the major hole though, cause with Wynn or Garcia and Nomar you are fine if you ask me to the point you can use Willie Harris. And the Sox should be able to find a pretty decent RF for the right price.

 

I don't think KW wants to use Jeremy Reed at this point. I don't trust Scho and would rather non-tender him and go with someone else for 2 million, imo. Although I do like Scho.

[Chisoxfn]

if we hose the Dodgers by plucking Nomar, my hunch is they're not going to trade anybody to us.

 

especially a pitcher for an overpaid first baseman who would create very little buzz in L.A. because long-time Dodger fans view Konerko was one of their old overhyped prospects.

 

Mix in the Evans/KW relationship and I just don't see any Sox/LA deal.

That was my other thought. Maybe Evans would get so mad that he'd just crawl into a hole and never deal with us.

[Chisoxfn]

Where else are they going to get offense from then?  Are they going to resign Jeromy Burnitz and Rickey Henderson and hope for a miracle again? 

 

They are desperate to get rid of Odalis, and really have no where else to look.  They could sign Javy Lopez/Ivan Rodriguez, but that's about as far as they'd get on the FA market as it is.

 

I think a Perez-for-Konerko deal is very possible.

Burnitz is supposedly one of the front runners for a backup slot on the Cubs. Although...when you think about it, Burnitz could actually fit with the Sox. Left handed power and he can play right. He isn't great out there, but he could. I hate all the whiffs, but he really improved last year and if he's considering a backup role with the Cubs, he must not be looking for that much money.

[BrandoFan]

long-time Dodger fans view Konerko was one of their old overhyped prospects.

 

 

Dodger fans....How many home-grown All-Stars did they have in the last 5 years, again?

[witesoxfan]

We've been seeing eye to eye as of late 

 

Thats exactly how I figure things will look.  Sox will have two holes after all the trades work out...the 5th spot in the rotation, and the cf/2nd base slot...plus you have right field. 

 

Right field and the 5th spot will be the major hole though, cause with Wynn or Garcia and Nomar you are fine if you ask me to the point you can use Willie Harris.  And the Sox should be able to find a pretty decent RF for the right price.

 

I don't think KW wants to use Jeremy Reed at this point.  I don't trust Scho and would rather non-tender him and go with someone else for 2 million, imo.  Although I do like Scho.

I'm fine with Willie as long as he hits .250-.275 with a .330-.360 OBP. If he does this .180-.220 s***, I would rather just let him go then try to use him as a pinch-runner/defensive replacement. If we want some speed sign an Olympic sprinter and have him be a designated runner(and for all our historians/old-timers in here, we go back to the Herb Washington days).

 

And I do agree with you....I would much rather non-tender Scho and use that extra money on other stuff. I'm sure there's a cheap lefty available who we could sign and hopefully turn into something(or maybe there's another possible diamond-in-the-rough guy that is asking for dirt money that will eat innings....I'd be all for it), and then call up Arnie Munoz or Dave Sanders and have them setup from the left-side and have Williamson setup from the right, while Marte closes. Saves a little money in the process. Then maybe Diaz starts, or Cotts has a good spring and earns the spot....who knows.

 

I do like your idea about Burnitz....I had totally forgotten about him. He's probably as bad as Huff is in RF, but I think he has a decent arm out there and he's a bat to break up the righties, and it's less of a risk then having Harris being depended on. Sign him for $2 mill(probably the money you'd save with non-tendering Scho) and we'd have our RFer. He strikesout like there's no tomorrow, but the guy has some power. You get him out of those pitcher-friendly parks and into a hitter-friendly park, and you might see some similar numbers to what he put up in Milwaukee.

 

And as far as I'm concerned....Jose for Guillen should be done now. It'd be a good move if we do get Garciaparra, and wouldn't be a bad move if the deal falls through. As you have brought up, there is another option that we could use in RF in Burnitz, so maybe we should take that route.