You know what?

[BrandoFan]

No, I don't want Nomar here afterall. I know I must have mentioned these reasons before in one context or another, but bear with me:

 

1. I looked at his last 3 years and I couldn't BELIEVE what I saw: he is LITERALLY a different player away from Fenway, with something like 900-700 OPS distribution. That is Todd Helton territory, and 3 years is a big enough sample for me. Whether it has something to do with his wrist (I bet it does), attitude, age, Fenway Park, line-up protection or a little of all the above....FACTS are FACTS. Do you know what his OPS is in 35 at bats at USCF in last 2 seasons? 400.........Hell, as clutch as he's been his entire career, even RISP/RISP-2outs/bases-loaded numbers took a MAJOR dive in 2003.........SO I guess he'll fit right in with the rest of Sox chokers, lololol.........Total 3-year OPS? 870 which is still pretty damn good, but not nearly as good as he was in 1998-2000 before said injury.......arguably you can get that production from Valentin if you don't let him hit RH, lol.

 

2. Nomar doesn't want to be here. There are players who can be discontent and STILL put up huge numbers. There are also players who are more susceptible to prolonged mental funks and let the discomfort get the best of them. I personally don't want to find out if Nomar is one of those players as it might just ruin the team's entire year. (see: Konerko times 2)

 

3. If you wanna see a prime example of a star hitter choking in playoffs, look up Nomar's stats in the first 10 games of 2003 playoffs.......Other than Eric Chavez and Tejada and Derek Lee, nobody was worse. If we are "going for it" this year, playoffs is something we always must keep in mind and something was clearly not right with Nomar.

 

4. Then you add the fact that Williamson is making 3 Mill in arbitration and was absolutely TERRIBLE as a Red Sock......AND, get this, apparently Sox are being forced to give Jon Rauch/Danny Wright or maybe even Neil Cotts TOO. Not saying these guy are all that, but they are cheap and I personally wouldn't mind seeing both of them in the bullpen where stamina is not an issue and they can really let it fly...

 

5. Nomar is not a speed demon, nor is he a Gold Glover SS- like Valentin, too many damn mistakes.....Still pretty good, but so is young (and hopefully improving) Uribe.........at 300K.

 

6. If we buy into the premise that Maggs is "unsignable", wait until Nomar's agent opens his mouth......Nomar is already making about 12 million (not including another million that is deferred) and as if it wasn't enough, he's on the wrong side of 30 as well, so any talk of long-term deal has to have another unnecessary risk figured into it as there is a difference between wear-in-tear in RF and one at SS.

 

7. In case of a Nomar-to-LA re-route, I don't think Sox fans can take NOT only losing Maggs but also getting teased with Nomar before losing him as well....The perception will not be, um, conducive to SEASON-ticket sales, what with most people not knowing much about Mota, Miller, Jackson and all.........USE MAGGS IF YOU'RE GONNA DEAL WITH LA. No need to screw around, Sheffield's has just been taken off the market, LA's ripe for the picking. Using Boston as leverage is wise.

 

 

It's late and I may leave a few things out that are worth considering. Feel free to add.

[YASNY]

I don't Sox fans will consider it being teased with Nomar. I look at it this way. If LA prefers Nomar to Magglio, and we can't get them to meet our price for Magglio, maybe they'll meet it for Nomar after a Nomar for Maggs deal. I also believe that we still don't know all of the details regarding the Red Sox trade with us, as yet.

[BrandoFan]

I also believe that we still don't know all of the details regarding the Red Sox trade with us, as yet.

 

All I care about is not giving up Cotts, Rauch, Wright and Honel.

[YASNY]

All I care about is not giving up Cotts, Rauch, Wright and Honel.

Agreed. But, If you make this deal, I'd move be talking to TB about Huff.

[DBAHO]

All I care about is not giving up Cotts, Rauch, Wright and Honel.

Cotts and Honel are almost untouchable, unless u get a great player in return. Wright I'd be inclined to giv one more chance, and Rauch won't be that big of a loss.

[whitesox61382]

I don't Sox fans will consider it being teased with Nomar.  I look at it this way.  If LA prefers Nomar to Magglio, and we can't get them to meet our price for Magglio, maybe they'll meet it for Nomar after a Nomar for Maggs deal.  I also believe that we still don't know all of the details regarding the Red Sox trade with us, as yet.

I am not sure if LA would prefer Nomar to Maggs. If you talk to Dodger fans, than you will find that surprisingly most would prefer Maggs over Nomar, which is one of the reasons why I think the Sox might be better off holding onto Maggs(I think the LA deal address more of the Sox needs both personal wise and financially). The one reason why LA might give up more for Nomar, is because that Maggs will most likely be taken off the market(assuming that Boston keeps him) which leaves LA with even fewer options to significantly improve their offense. With that said, I agree with the original post. I will not be completely upset if the Nomar-Maggs deal doesn't go down, especially if the Sox are including a couple of pitching prospects that some rumors say they are. I think there would be too many things hinging on the Sox ability to move Nomar in a deal right after, and with the news that there is tension between Williams and Evan that could rule the Dodgers out of the mix. That could leave the Sox with few options for Nomar and still over budget. Sure the Sox could move other big salaries, but most of those guys have little trade value and there value would probably be hurt even more by the fact that the Sox are almost forced to move salary if they get stuck with Nomar. Part me of just wishes that something will be finalized(not necassarily the Maggs-Nomar deal) so we have a better understand of where this organization is heading for 2004.

[YASNY]

I am not sure if LA would prefer Nomar to Maggs. If you talk to Dodger fans, than you will find that surprisingly most would prefer Maggs over Nomar, which is one of the reasons why I think the Sox might be better off holding onto Maggs(I think the LA deal address more of the Sox needs both personal wise and financially). The one reason why LA might give up more for Nomar, is because that Maggs will most likely be taken off the market(assuming that Boston keeps him) which leaves LA with even fewer options to significantly improve their offense. With that said, I agree with the original post. I will not be completely upset if the Nomar-Maggs deal doesn't go down, especially if the Sox are including a couple of pitching prospects that some rumors say they are. I think there would be too many things hinging on the Sox ability to move Nomar in a deal right after, and with the news that there is tension between Williams and Evan that could rule the Dodgers out of the mix. That could leave the Sox with few options for Nomar and still over budget. Sure the Sox could move other big salaries, but most of those guys have little trade value and there value would probably be hurt even more by the fact that the Sox are almost forced to move salary if they get stuck with Nomar. Part me of just wishes that something will be finalized(not necassarily the Maggs-Nomar deal) so we have a better understand of where this organization is heading for 2004.

I am basing that on the many media reports that Evans, not Dodger fans, prefers Nomar over Maggs.

[BrandoFan]

If you make this deal, I'd move be talking to TB about Huff.

 

I like the way you're thinking, and for Huff, I'd give up Danny Wright (provided he has a good ST in bullpen, otherwise he is not worth a lot to TB), Munoz and maybe Honel.

[BrandoFan]

I am basing that on the many media reports that Evans, not Dodger fans, prefers Nomar over Maggs.

Dodgers already have a young, cheap, fast Itzituris who can field with the best of them in NL......Adjusting Nomar's numbers to Dodger stadium (once again I am forced to use post-injury 3 year numbers) and unfamiliar NL pitchers, I'd be suprised if he posts anything higher than 850 OPS- is it worth paying him 12 (+1) Mill and giving up Miller and Jackson/Mota for?

 

 

Evans is not a good GM, is he?

[YASNY]

Dodgers already have a young, cheap, fast Itzituris who can field with the best of them in NL......Adjusting Nomar's numbers to Dodger stadium (once again I am forced to use post-injury 3 year numbers) and unfamiliar NL pitchers, I'd be suprised if he posts anything higher than 850 OPS-  is it worth paying him 12 (+1) Mill and giving up Miller and Jackson/Mota for?

 

 

Evans is not a good GM, is he?

Throw all logic out the window. Everything I've read is that Evans preferred Nomar and was waiting till the ARod deal went down so he could swoop in and get Nomar. KW backdoored him, but Evans definitely preferred Nomar.

[BrandoFan]

and Rauch won't be that big of a loss.

 

 

What I don't understand is how Kris Honel, a guy with two major league ready pitches who is AT LEAST 2 years away from getting him his cup o' coffee, is more valuable than a 3-pitch monster Rauch who is JUST getting over the shoulder procedure (it's been 2.5 years) and by all acounts is ready to compete for rotation.

 

 

Back to Magglio-Nomar...

[YASNY]

What I don't understand is how Kris Honel, a guy with two major league ready pitches who is AT LEAST 2 years away from getting him his cup o' coffee, is more valuable than a 3-pitch monster Rauch who is JUST getting over the shoulder procedure (it's been 2.5 years) and by all acounts is ready to compete for rotation.

 

 

Back to Magglio-Nomar...

I am puzzled by the Sox apparent lack of giving Rauch serious consideration to make the club this year. The dude should be ready to step up and pitch.

[Wong & Owens]

I like the way you're thinking, and for Huff, I'd give up Danny Wright (provided he has a good ST in bullpen, otherwise he is not worth a lot to TB), Munoz and maybe Honel.

OK, I'll admit to being ignorant here. Huff is probably the most underrated hitter in the AL at least, if not all of baseball. His contract is pretty cheap, and I believe he's locked up for 3 more years. Why in the world would Tampa even THINK of trading him? Is he hurt? Arbitration-eligible every year? Asking out of Tampa?

 

What'd I miss?

[israel4ever]

IF we make this deal for Nomar, (and I wouldn't do it if the plan is to not trade Nomar!), we should insist on Izturis (sp.?) as part of the trade. i.e. Perez, Izturis, and one of the prospects. (Evans doesn't want to give up Mota).

 

Or trade Nomar to the Angels for Erstad and Percival.

 

We can't get Nomar and expect him to be happy here, we'll never re-sign him anyway, so trading him is the ONLY option.

 

(Are you reading this KW and JR???)

[LostInBoston]

OK, I'll admit to being ignorant here. Huff is probably the most underrated hitter in the AL at least, if not all of baseball. His contract is pretty cheap, and I believe he's locked up for 3 more years. Why in the world would Tampa even THINK of trading him? Is he hurt? Arbitration-eligible every year? Asking out of Tampa?

 

What'd I miss?

 

TB Management claims they would have to be "blown away" by an offer for Huff to even consider dealing him. So theoretically, they are willing to deal him, but a team would have to pay dearly to get him. I think they're even remotely considering it because Huff is relegated to DH now that they have Jose Cruz....

[BrandoFan]

TB Management claims they would have to be "blown away" by an offer for Huff to even consider dealing him. So theoretically, they are willing to deal him, but a team would have to pay dearly to get him. I think they're even remotely considering it because Huff is relegated to DH now that they have Jose Cruz....

I thought the same thing, but if Wright is lights-out in the pen (he has the stuff to be) and Munoz has a good spring and Honel...ah, forget it, Tampa will ask for Reed and Cotts, so we ain't getting s***.

[BrandoFan]

Ichiro just signed a 4-year extension with the Mariners.

[israel4ever]

Keeping Nomar makes absolutely NO sense!

 

His offense will not match that of Magglio, based on how Nomar hits outside of Fenway. He has made 45 errors over the past two years, AND, HIS CONTRACT EXPIRES AT THE END OF THE SEASON!!!

 

JR and KW will NEVER re-sign Nomar...I thought "rent-a-player" died with Bill Veeck!

 

If we get Nomar, we HAVE to trade him!

 

[Wong & Owens]

Keeping Nomar makes absolutely NO sense!

 

His offense will not match that of Magglio, based on how Nomar hits outside of Fenway. He has made 45 errors over the past two years, AND, HIS CONTRACT EXPIRES AT THE END OF THE SEASON!!!

 

JR and KW will NEVER re-sign Nomar...I thought "rent-a-player" died with Bill Veeck!

 

If we get Nomar, we HAVE to trade him!

 

Yes, I see the light now. No Nomar. I was wavering, up until I read this post.

[BrandoFan]

Nomar's wrist surgery is similar to Grant Hill's ankle woes--- both players supposed to have been back to their usual HOF selves two years ago, or so their respective fans have been telling us.......but at least Grant Hill didn't have ghastly home-away splits.

[Wong & Owens]

I have seen the splits, and while they are scary, you cant tell me if Nomar comes here, he has  a 275. BA, with 20 HR and 80 RBI's. He whould adjust. And Nomar didnt exactly have a bad season last year. Comparing him to Grant Hill is ludicrous

He hasn't adjusted in 3 years, why would you think he would adjust now? We wouldn't pay him enough to keep him beyond 2004 anyways, so it doesn't even matter if he COULD adjust--it wouldn't happen in his first season anyways.

[israel4ever]

Right on, Ghost!!!!

 

 

[greasywheels121]

I am not sure if LA would prefer Nomar to Maggs. If you talk to Dodger fans, than you will find that surprisingly most would prefer Maggs over Nomar, which is one of the reasons why I think the Sox might be better off holding onto Maggs(I think the LA deal address more of the Sox needs both personal wise and financially). The one reason why LA might give up more for Nomar, is because that Maggs will most likely be taken off the market(assuming that Boston keeps him) which leaves LA with even fewer options to significantly improve their offense. With that said, I agree with the original post. I will not be completely upset if the Nomar-Maggs deal doesn't go down, especially if the Sox are including a couple of pitching prospects that some rumors say they are. I think there would be too many things hinging on the Sox ability to move Nomar in a deal right after, and with the news that there is tension between Williams and Evan that could rule the Dodgers out of the mix. That could leave the Sox with few options for Nomar and still over budget. Sure the Sox could move other big salaries, but most of those guys have little trade value and there value would probably be hurt even more by the fact that the Sox are almost forced to move salary if they get stuck with Nomar. Part me of just wishes that something will be finalized(not necassarily the Maggs-Nomar deal) so we have a better understand of where this organization is heading for 2004.

I agree 100%.....

[BrandoFan]

I have seen the splits, and while they are scary, you cant tell me if Nomar comes here, he has a 275. BA, with 20 HR and 80 RBI's. He whould adjust

 

Everything is possible, but it's all about ODDS, it's all about RISK.....ESPECIALLY if you're a no-money team like the Sox which would be BURIED if Nomar's wrist flares up or if he sucks because he is depressed and unhappy.

 

There is a higher chance Magglio posts a 975 OPS here than Garciappara post 900 in 2004. I would never suggest Nomar would have a 725 OPS away from Beustawn (even tho his post injury numes suggest so), but if he can't give up AT LEAST 875 OPS, he is not worth his 13 Mil (1 deferred remember?) tag.

 

Again, last 2 years (35 atbats), Nomar's OPS in Comiskey park is a robust FOUR HUNDRED.

 

 

I say bring on Jackason, Miller and Mota and SAVE close to 12 Mill in the process.....which you could spend on Palmeiro, One Gone if to get the runs you lose by dealing Maggs.