Steve Bartman's my idol Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 How many more wins has Wood had then Garland the last 2 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 How many more wins has Wood had then Garland the last 2 years? Wins lie. Look at their periphrals. Think about it, if Kerry Wood was on the Sox, and Jon Garland was on the Cubs, what do think their win totals would look like over the last two years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Wins lie. Look at their periphrals. Think about it, if Kerry Wood was on the Sox, and Jon Garland was on the Cubs, what do think their win totals would look like over the last two years? 2003 run support Garland 6.06 rpg Loiaza 5.37 rpg Buehrle 4.88 rpg Prior 4.85 rpg Wood 4.61 rpg That tells the whole story of why Wood's win total wasn't nearly as good. Give Kerry Wood an extra run and a half a game, and tell me how many games he would have won. Plus factor in his horrible pen... There is no comparing Kerry Wood to Jon Garland, and it is foolish to even try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 You need to go to Cubs Talk, Kerry Wood is lucky to get out of the first inning, he pitches in an easier league, faces pitchers, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 You need to go to Cubs Talk, Kerry Wood is lucky to get out of the first inning, he pitches in an easier league, faces pitchers, etc. Guy it isn't about CubsTalk, its about being able to recognize talent. You gotta take off your blinders and realize that just because Jon is on the Sox, doesn't mean he is the greatest pitcher ever. If you look at the numbers, Kerry Wood blows away Jon Garland. ELo was statistically superior to Wood last year, and the arguement has been made for Mark Buehrle being better as well. But Jon Garland just isn't there. And wins is a terrible stat to use to justify one pitcher being better than another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 2003 run support Garland 6.06 rpg Loiaza 5.37 rpg Buehrle 4.88 rpg Prior 4.85 rpg Wood 4.61 rpg That tells the whole story of why Wood's win total wasn't nearly as good. Give Kerry Wood an extra run and a half a game, and tell me how many games he would have won. Plus factor in his horrible pen... There is no comparing Kerry Wood to Jon Garland, and it is foolish to even try it. I think you need to compare ERA vs. Run support. comparing eras or run support is meaningless between leagues. What are their individual eras vs. league average? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 White Sox (the word Sox should only be used by fans in Boston) I know you're never going to see this soo... If you do see, which I hope you do, you take that Boston is better than everyone s*** and shove it up your ass. The Sox (White Sox) were around before your stupid Yankee-accusing-of-spending-too-much-now-mimicking-them team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 I think you need to compare ERA vs. Run support. comparing eras or run support is meaningless between leagues. What are their individual eras vs. league average? OK here goes... Garland 6.06 RS 4.51 era Loiaza 5.37 RS 2.90 era Buehrle 4.88 RS 4.14 era Prior 4.85 RS 2.43 era Wood 4.61 RS 3.20 era No real surprise who the two leading winners are, Prior and ELo. But Garland got the most run support and managed to have the least wins of all 5 of these guys. He also had a twice the gap as MB who was .500 (which the numbers bear out). Garland was a game under .500 with a 1.55 gap in his favor. Wood was 3 games over .500 wih a gap of 1.41. In otherwords Kerry did more with less. Once again, decesion Wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Also, can we not forget Kerry Wood's playoffs(with the exception of game 7 of the NLCS)? I'd put $10 bucks on Garland NOT being able to put up anything CLOSE to the dominance Kerry Wood had against the Braves and against the Marlins(again, aside from game 7). Kerry is a money pitcher, Garland is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred3535 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Whether or not the Sox sign Ponson (which I really hope they do) or Garcia or anyone else, I would hope the Danny Wright isn't in the rotation next year. He already proved last season he's more effective in relief and amy even be a closer option since he has some nasty stuff. Assuming the Sox sign no starters before Spring Training (No, God no!) Here's my tentative rotation: 1. Loaiza 2. Buehrle 3. Garland 4. and 5. Schoenweiss/Cotts/Rauch/Diaz/Grilli The way I see it, it's better to have a mediocre lefthander (Schoenweiss) than a mediocre righty (Wright) just to throw some variety at opponents. After that, I'd rather see them try to inject some new blood into the rotation than go with the same old guy that seems to have hit his ceiling. All four prospects there have a very high potential and if one of them can meet it and have a very good season, or two of them can have decent seasons, I'd say it's worth the risk to keep Dan in the bullpen. But if none of them can beat him out for a rotation spot in Spring Training than maybe he'll surprise everyone. Who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Personally, I'd much rather non-tender Scho and sign Damian Moss and Tony Armas Jr. Use Armas in the #3 or 4 spot and Moss in the #4 or #5 spot, and put Garland in the one not taken. Use Grilli and Wright out of the pen along with Marte and Wunsch....and then I suppose we hope the ARod deal gets done and we get Williamson....gives us 5 pretty good relievers in the pen - OR we sign a reliever and use Diaz or someone else out of the pen from the right side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Wood - Prior - Zambrano I wouldn't be too quick to throw Zambrano in there. He started getting smacked around at the end of the season, and was kinda crappy in the postseason. He's a flake, and could go the way of Julian Tavarez or Jaime Navarro easily, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 The first problem with the question is you are making the supposition that Buerhle is an ACE. The question should be rephrased to this can the White Sox (the word Sox should only be used by fans in Boston) win with Buerhle as the #1 starter. In the pathetic division that the White Sox play in Yes. In the superior divisions out east and west NO. How many All Star appearances does Buerhle have? How many play off wins? He has a ways to go before anyone should be calling him an ACE. In balance, and since I am a baseball fan and am not blindsided by loyalty to one team, Buerhle is a mighty fine pitcher and if he lives up to the contract he just signed, may be an ACE by the end of it. I've been lurking following the potential Nomar - Ordonez trade. I am impressed with the members here. Best of luck in 2004. I hope we meet in the playoffs. He's got an all-star appearance, he's 24 years old and he's only been on one playoff team, which was 2000 in which he was our setup man, not a starting pitcher. And no he doesn't have the distinction of choking in game 7 of the ALCS like your ACE Pedro did last year. And by the way, I believe Buehrle put the clamps on the Red Sox last season if my memory serves me correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I wouldn't be too quick to throw Zambrano in there. He started getting smacked around at the end of the season, and was kinda crappy in the postseason. He's a flake, and could go the way of Julian Tavarez or Jaime Navarro easily, IMO. I would agree except El Psycho has so much raw talent it's scary. Tavarez and Navarro not in his league. People orgasm over Juan Cruz, yet Zambrano's stuff is every bit as filthy and unlike the Tooth Pick, he generates it without much leg kick, additional torque, etc, which only bodes well for his future. I do think he is a year or two older than stated, tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 As far as I'm concerned, Buerhle's always been the ace. Loaiza was a surprise, and welcome addition, and Colon helped stabilize the rotation. But after getting over that 1st half slump from "dead arm" syndrome, Buerhle pitched like the Mark Buerhle we've seen the last 3 years. And if I needed convincing, outdueling perennial Sox-killer Mark Mulder 2-1 back in August did the trick. I think Buerhle's gonna reach that 20 win plateau this year. And hopefully, Bobby Kielty will be nowhere in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 ONly a 1-time 20 game winner, so lets not get carrid away. We all hope, and some expect ELoz to repeat his success from 2003, but no one knows for sure if it can be done. At least Buehrle has been extremely consistent in his performance level his whole career. I feel confident in Buehrle being solid at #1/2, Jonny G being solid at #4.....otherwise...I'm kinda worried. I'm just glad the Sox did the right thing and locked up MB long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 There shouldn't be any argument over who is a better pitcher wood or garland there is no doubt that its wood, but that being said wood is and always has been an overrated pitcher, this guy is one of the most inconsistent pitcher in all of baseball, and I think thats a reason his win total has never been great, when he wins he dominates, when he loses he sucks plain and simple, and yes he did dominate the braves, but I really believe that a ton of pitchers could have shut down the braves, they became to much like the whitesox in that series, they were all going for the long ball and all trying to hit homeruns, even though they had one of the best offenses in the regular season, when you have a primarily power hitting lineup you will most likely get shut down in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 To the idiot that thinks the word "Sox" should only be used by Boston fans ... I say look at the front of the home uniforms of both teams and tell me which team is the "Sox" Moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 To the idiot that thinks the word "Sox" should only be used by Boston fans ... I say look at the front of the home uniforms of both teams and tell me which team is the "Sox" Moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Mr. Wonton, How about this We take Sox You can have Sux close enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Your signatures are always the best, Tex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Your signatures are always the best, Tex. Knight came through and fixed it nicely for me. At first it was just for our 5th starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 Yes, we need a Ponson here, for this reason... Compare these two rotations: Buehrle Ponson Loaiza Garland Wright Buehrle Loaiza Garland Wright Cotts/Rauch Rotation 1 gives me confidence in winning this division, as it gives us three PROVEN pitchers, one who is up-and-coming, and another who might throw a good game or two. Rotation 2 does not give me such confidence, as we have two proven pitchers, one who is up-and coming, another who might throw a good game or two, and a huge question mark in the five-hole. We need ponson, as I don't think Cotts or Rauch are ready for a full season's work just yet. Ponson has been a batting tee all season long. That was one of KW's best non-moves so far since he's been here. We need a 5th starter, yes, but not one who is gonna make Danny Wrong look like an ace. Better to hold out and try for the Garcia's of the leauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xero Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 old topic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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