BrandoFan Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 Now I'm rummaging through my LPs. You know, Dire Straits was pretty good. I forgot they also did the theme to one of the most underrated and cute lil movies, Local Hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 The guy is not much a singer, he's almost talking into the mic. Lyrics are ok at best, but suit the style. OK at best?!? "Two men say they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong." Great lyric. Here's to all the victims of Industrial Disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 FlaSoxxJim, what is your favorite 5 songs? Mine probably: Lady Writer Brothers in Ams Sultan of Swing Juliet Money for Nothing//sax part on YLT//Local Hero Theme but I have only heard The Best Of CD released in 1999. I am sure there are a ton of gems from their late-70s-mid-80s albums that didn't make. Also, I am hoping there is a recording of Atkins, Knopfler and Clapton together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 FlaSoxxJim, what is your favorite 5 songs? Mine probably: Lady Writer Brothers in Ams Sultan of Swing Juliet Money for Nothing//sax part on YLT//Local Hero Theme but I have only heard The Best Of CD released in 1999. I am sure there are a ton of gems from their late-70s-mid-80s albums that didn't make. Also, I am hoping there is a recording of Atkins, Knopfler and Clapton together. OK, here's my picks as of today (may change without notice): Romeo and Juliet Expresso Love Sultans of Swing Industrial Disease Love Over Gold Honorable mention to: Lady Writer and Once Upon a Time in the West. I enjoyed most of Brothers in Arms but MTV and pop radio did do their best to play most of it into the ground. The Atkins/Knopfler “Neck and Neck” album is outstanding. As far as Mark’s solo film stuff, I gotta go with the Princess Bride soundtrack stuff as my favorite. Either the 4th or 5th Hitchhiker's Guide book has a great rumination of Authur Dent's on Knopfler's guitar work, did a great job describing the fluidity of his playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 OK, here's my picks as of today (may change without notice): Romeo and Juliet Expresso Love Sultans of Swing Industrial Disease Love Over Gold Honorable mention to: Lady Writer and Once Upon a Time in the West. I enjoyed most of Brothers in Arms but MTV and pop radio did do their best to play most of it into the ground. The Atkins/Knopfler “Neck and Neck” album is outstanding. As far as Mark’s solo film stuff, I gotta go with the Princess Bride soundtrack stuff as my favorite. Either the 4th or 5th Hitchhiker's Guide book has a great rumination of Authur Dent's on Knopfler's guitar work, did a great job describing the fluidity of his playing. Wow I forgot about Princess Bride (Robin Wright.....in Russia in early-mid 90s, Santa Barbara soap reruns was so popular, so watched religiously that the guy who played Cruz got a bigger standing ovation when he visited Bolsoi than Pres. Clinton did!), what a hilarious movie even if dated, the real MP: Holy Grail of the 80s. Only heard 30 seconds of Once Upon the Time in the West (what an underrated Leone western, esp. Fonda and Robards, Ennio Maricone and Neil Young did solid job with soundtrack) on amazon.co and never heard the other 3 in top 5. Never read Hitchhiker's Guide. What is it about? Fluidity of sound is goddamn right. "Oh Romeo, yeah I used to have a scene with him..." Where would you rank Atkins and Knopfler as far as guitar chops? I didn't think anyone knew about those two in US when I posted the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Never read Hitchhiker's Guide. What is it about? Fluidity of sound is goddamn right. ... Where would you rank Atkins and Knopfler as far as guitar chops? I didn't think anyone knew about those two in US when I posted the thread. Man, I had you pegged for a closet sci-fi geek The late Douglas Adams' Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy is a series of quirky (Pythonesque), very funny sci-fi books based on a BBC radio show of the same name from many years back. The first three books were riotously funny and near-perfect. The last two books (I actually think there's a 6th posthumous release I've not bothered with) are strained and much less inspired but they have their moments. As far as Chet's chops... someone earlier in the thread said he was arguably the best country guitarist out there. I only think that statement is wrong in that there is no argument – Chet is hardcore for sure. I 'discovered' Chet in high school accidentally when the movie Crossroads came out and I began searching out Ry Cooder's stuff. Some of the guitar cats at the music store I wasted much of my time at said I should check out Chet Atkins as well, and so I did. I have given up on 'rating' guitarists, but technically I think Chet is pretty impeccable. Mark's rock fingerpicking style is unique, but technical purists from both the classical and and rock world might fault him for the technical problems with (planting the thumb of his picking hand on the guitar, etc.). If that's the case, then screw technnical correctness (I mean, Dizzy Gilespie's embouchure was for s***, but the guy could wail). I'd sell a kidney (whos kidney I haven't decided yet...) to be half the player he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 Man, I had you pegged for a closet sci-fi geek Me geek? First time for everything I guess. Chet Atkins's contribution doesn't end with his playing.... I have given up on 'rating' guitarists, None of that dorky top 50 lists for me either. I mean the usual ranking break-down: terrible-bad-mediocre-solid-really good-great but technically I think Chet is pretty impeccable. Mark's rock fingerpicking style is unique, but technical purists from both the classical and and rock world might fault him for the technical problems with (planting the thumb of his picking hand on the guitar, etc.). If that's the case, then screw technnical correctness (I mean, Dizzy Gilespie's embouchure was for s***, but the guy could wail). I'd sell a kidney (whos kidney I haven't decided yet...) to be half the player he is. f*** the technique. I mean from the outcome/sound standpoint. Qaulity-wise, is Mark up there? Clapton? Brain May? I don't remember your answer about Aussie Agnus Young from way back- good or bad? As far Gilespie, I am thinking of Charlie Parker era, must be different Dizzy. Thanks in advance, I am learning a lot here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Chet Atkins's contribution doesn't end with his playing.... I mean the usual ranking break-down: terrible-bad-mediocre-solid-really good-great Qaulity-wise, is Mark up there? Clapton? Brain May? ...Aussie Agnus Young from way back- good or bad? As far Gilespie, I am thinking of Charlie Parker era, must be different Dizzy. In no particular order... No, you're right about Dizzy as the Bird-era Dizzy. Both he and Miles cut their be-bop teeth with Parker. I just used him as an example of someone who technically played his instrument 'wrong' as a :fyou to those who put technical matters above all else. His embouchure (mouth position) was laughable, with those bullfrog cheeks and all, but he was a great player in spite of that. My school-daze band directors would have kicked my arse if I played like that, but then again they're probably still teaching school band so whatever... Angus: Not a fan, except of his Eddie Munster wardrobe. I like very little of the repetitive drek AC/DC has churned out, and most of what I like is from the Bon Scott era. I'd probably keep "Whole Lotta Rosie" and chuck the rest. I was actually a replacement guitarist in a high school cover band that did a ton of AC/DC stuff, and it was a painful experiance to have to listen to/learn/play the stuff. Not hard, mind you, just a waste of time. Knopfler, up there ('really good-great' on your scale). Chet, WAY up there (off your scale). And I agree his contribution goes beyond his guitar playing. He's one of those musicians that seems to transcend generations and is probably one of the all-time "musicians' musicians." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 22, 2003 Author Share Posted December 22, 2003 Angus: Not a fan, except of his Eddie Munster wardrobe. I like very little of the repetitive drek AC/DC has churned out, and most of what I like is from the Bon Scott era. I'd probably keep "Whole Lotta Rosie" and chuck the rest. I was actually a replacement guitarist in a high school cover band that did a ton of AC/DC stuff, and it was a painful experiance to have to listen to/learn/play the stuff. Not hard, mind you, just a waste of time While I like AC/DC's brand of blues-streaked rock'n'roll a bit more than you (wait until you see 1.5+ Mill disaffected hard-core fans and policemen in Tushino Airport screaming and chanting Back in Black and Co so you can't hear even Brian Johnson), I do agree that ranking Shorty in top 10 of rock-n-roll quitarists of all time, which almost every publication does, is on the silly side. Speaking of which, who do you think are the 10 best of the best in Rock-n-roll/metal guitar in NO particular order? I bet I won't know half of your choices, lololol.....I hope no Ted Nugent, Van Halen, Rhodes or that Don Dokken Lynch dude. I like Jimmy Page and that rolling stones bandana dude cracks me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Ok, you asked for it. Here’s my unqualified, wholly-debatable top 10 heavy hitters of the electric guitar. I’m taking a liberty in not limiting myself to hard rock/metal guitarists – more from my lack of interest in most of them than a sweeping dismissal of their talents. Indulge me and let me go back to the beginning of the electric guitar for this list. The commonality in all these guys is that they were innovators, though some were more influential than others. Charlie Christian. The beginning of electric guitar right here. Plus, the first true great jazz guitarist. Hats off to Les Paul, but Charlie did it first, did it leaner and did it meaner. Buddy Holly. The invention of the rock guitar-chord-solo is a wholly underappreciated thing. For shame. Dave Davies. OK, you could put Rick Derringer (McCoys-era) pr Jimmy Page (Yardbirds-era) in here just as easily. The rock guitar-chord-solo had to evolve some time, and these were just the guys to do it. Jimi. ‘nuff said. Only because it would take a whole thread just to scratch the surface of what he brought to the table. EC. May not be God, but comes close. Frank Zappa. Love or hate his politics, his abraisiveness, general Dadaist approach to music (I happen to love them), Frank was maybe the only rock guitarist who realized it’s all just one Big Note. Brain-straining polyrythms, complete disregard for keys and scales, leaving behind the pigeon-holing of musical styles, etc., ... and all very intentional. He knew the rules and broke them with abandon when he was at his best. Roy Buchanan/Danny Gatton. Placed together as guitar virtuosi too good for their own good, under-appreciated in their lifetimes, and sadly pushed to the point that they both thought taking their own lives was a viable alternative to languishing in obscurity. Check out the stuff they left behind. Steve Morse. If he ever cared to, I think he could be way more than the Dixie Dregs frontman. If for no reason other than to not lose a great axeman ala’ Buchanan/Gatton, everyone should hurry up and make Morse famous like he deserves to be. Eddie VH. I am not and never was a big Van Halen junkie, but credit where it’s due. Like a lot of people in this list, he did revolutionize the way a new generation approached the electric guitar. I never forgave him for stealing Val away from my teenage dreams, but seeing as he couldn’t make it work either I guess it’s time to make amends. I prefer early Steve Vai stuff for its ballsiness, and probably Satriani or Eric Johnson for melodic sensibility, but he was the Godfather of all the later-day guitar gymnasts. Adrian Belew. Get your hands on some. The common thread uniting Zappa, Talking Heads, Bowie, Laurie Anderson, King Crimson... All just a warmup for his solo stuff, which is so good it can make you cry. Lots of personal favorites I left out because I was trying to hit the most innovative of my preferred guitarists. Page, Beck, Townsend, George Harrison… etc. lots of sweet players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 22, 2003 Author Share Posted December 22, 2003 Man, that's some interesting perspective and approach to music. Rare to see someone put aside all the cliches and actually has an independent taste grounded in decades of instense musical experience and study . Which "Jimi" did you mean, tho? Page or Hendrix. Satriani and Vai are very familiar to me. A lot of people mention Lynch at this point. And Rhodes. What happened to Keith Richards? lolol BBK? How about drummers, is it true that most rock/metal drummers are notorioius for their poor musical education and sense of rhythm and imagination as compared to true jazz drum mavericks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 'Jimi' Hendrix, not 'Jimmy' Page. I like Page plenty though, as I said on the Zeppelin thread from a while back. I think he's about as important a figure in the British Blues-Rock revival as there is, and I think he was a great producer. I like Keith Richards a lot, great rythm guitarist and nice straightforward and lean lead lines when he takes them. But the great lead guitar from the Stones ca. 1969-1974 is mostly courtesy of ex-Mayall Bluesbreaker Mick Taylor, who replaced co-fonder Brian Jones when he died. Keith had a huge resect for Taylor, saying in the 90's, "..his touch, his tone, and his melodic ideas wowed me. I never understood why he left..." The album Black and Blue (1975) was really 2-dimensional compared to the previous several albims, and it's mostly due to Taylor's absence. Ron Wood was on half of that album, but I don't think he clicked with them until after that. Steve Vai... My favorite solo stuff of his is the first stuff, way before Passion and Warfare. Flex-Able, pretty much done at home with whoever dropped by while still doing Zappa's stunt guitar work is brilliant at times, rough around the edges, and doesn't take itself seriously. Rock drummers... Row do you know the guy knocking at your door is a drummer? Answer: the knocking speeds up. Answer 2: He never knows when to come in. My exceptions to the rule are the standard ones... Keith Moon, Neil Peirt (sp?), Charlie Watts as the king of steady, John Bonham and his qualude thunder . Some of the best rock drummers had jazz backgrounds... Mitch Mitchell (Hendrix Experience), Billy Cobham, Chester Thompson, Bill Bruford, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 He is definately a damn good guitarist. Dire Straits had some pretty damn good songs...especially considering most of their stuff was from the 80's at least I think it was...and lets just say I don't like much of that 80's bs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 22, 2003 Author Share Posted December 22, 2003 Ok, FlaSoxxJim, I see you can handle the drum and electric guitar questions with relative ease. Now we turn to vocals....20 favorite in no particular order with honorable mentions if you wish.....Doesn't matter the genre, from rap to opera. 20th century. (It better have Mario Lanza....just kidding) If you don't feel like it, I understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 I’ll pass on giving you 20, but I’ll respond quickly any way. There would be a big difference in a list of my personal favorite vocalists and those who I objectively consider to have great pipes. I can appreciate Paul Rodgers, Steve Perry or Kevin Cronin as outstanding vocalists, but at the same time I was never a huge Bad Co., Journey, or REO fan. Similarly Roy Orbison, Brad Delp, Steven Tyler, Robert Palmer, Roger McGuinn, etc., need to be included in a technical-merit vocal category. Joni Mitchell and Janis Joplin would make the female cut. My current favorite femail vocalist/performer is Aimee Mann who I fell in love with listening to the stuff on "Bachelor No. 2" over and over. The male vocalist who I think has the most spectacular, make-you-cry voice is a traditional Irish vocalist named Andy Irvine. I swear I’ll never sing again every time I hear him. As a big fan of solo composer/artists I think the vocal idiosyncrasies of those people lends a lot to the performance of their own music. Andy Partridge, Todd Rundgren, Elvis Costello are favorites of mine, and I think their vocal abilities are top notch. But I also have a bias in that I think their compositions are great and they would suffer if sung by someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 22, 2003 Author Share Posted December 22, 2003 Steven Tyler as in Aerosmith Tyler? Technically good? Elvis Costello is a strange choice. Not conventional for sure. Aimme Mann is one of the best songwriters working in the biz IMO. I first heard her work on Magnolia soundtrack. No Robert Plant or Stevie Wonder? I know you like Freddy. I like Engelbert Humperdink Mariah Carey used to have a nice lil voice...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 Plant is in my personal favs list, but I left him off of technical merit. I put Steven Tyler in based on his vocal range which strangely enough seems to be improving as he ages. Anyone who doubts Elvis Costello has real vocal talent should check out the stuff he teamed up with Burt Bacharach on. Yeah, I think Aimie Mann is a great songwriter, quite Bacharach-influenced too, btw. Stevie's a great vocalist, you're right. Tom Jones, Neal Sedaka..... you know, all the fresh sounds the kids these days are digging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 22, 2003 Author Share Posted December 22, 2003 You don't like Humperdink or Mariah? Tony Bennet? I've always taken Steven Tyler to be the kind of a singer-yeller who induces cringes in classical voice teachers (Kelly Clarkson drives them mad!) and ruins his voice by the time he is 30. What''s wrong with Plant? What about Beach Boys and Paul Mcartney? Tom Jones, Neal Sedaka..... you know, all the fresh sounds the kids these days are digging Better than today's dreck. The universe is almost 20 Billion years old, so all these "old" names from 60s and 70s actually sounded off just a split-second ago and are just as "new" as Charlotte f***ing Church or Eminem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 He is definately a damn good guitarist. Dire Straits had some pretty damn good songs...especially considering most of their stuff was from the 80's at least I think it was...and lets just say I don't like much of that 80's bs. "We are the sultans.......we are the sul......tans of swing" That was the theme song to the 2000 White Sox. Dire Straights other popular song was Money For Nothing. If you dont remember its the really cheezy video from the early days of MTV where all the characters are in choppy, computer graphics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 22, 2003 Author Share Posted December 22, 2003 "We are the sultans.......we are the sul......tans of swing" That was the theme song to the 2000 White Sox. Dire Straights other popular song was Money For Nothing. If you dont remember its the really cheezy video from the early days of MTV where all the characters are in choppy, computer graphics. And Sting singing in a thin voice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 "We are the sultans.......we are the sul......tans of swing" That was the theme song to the 2000 White Sox. Dire Straights other popular song was Money For Nothing. If you dont remember its the really cheezy video from the early days of MTV where all the characters are in choppy, computer graphics. Ya, I got one of their cd's..my dad used to listen to him and it is one of the rare groups that me and him like. Sultans of swing is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 walk of life is a good song. I think that's what it's called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 You don't like Humperdink or Mariah? Tony Bennet? I've always taken Steven Tyler to be the kind of a singer-yeller who induces cringes in classical voice teachers (Kelly Clarkson drives them mad!) and ruins his voice by the time he is 30. What''s wrong with Plant? What about Beach Boys and Paul Mcartney? Better than today's dreck. The universe is almost 20 Billion years old, so all these "old" names from 60s and 70s actually sounded off just a split-second ago and are just as "new" as Charlotte f***ing Church or Eminem. McCartney and Brian Wilson would make my top 20 if I bothered to put it down. Ditto Elton John, Aaron Neville, Old-world Peter Cetera (back when the guys in Chicago still had penises), Simon and Garfunkle, David Crosby and Graham Nash... Tony Bennet is a crooner but I enjoy him. I saw this guy named Jason Mraz on Austin City Limits this weekend who I thought had a very mature vocal delivery for a young guy (gotta find some of his stuff). In a different style, I think teh same thing about Rufus Wainright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted December 23, 2003 Author Share Posted December 23, 2003 Tony Bennet is a crooner but I enjoy him So is Engelbert, you don't care for crooners? I should have qualified it more. What do you think Mariah versus Joni Mitchell? Btw, I heard the Irvine feller, what a tembre. You know with proliferation of auto-tune like crap (if they can make J-Lo and Nicole Kidman into singers anything is possible) you never know who is the real deal or not if you hadn't heard them live before. He is awesome even if his reportioir is not my cup o' tea, thanks for the heads up. If you have anything to add, feel free to go off on the musical tangent. Very informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 In my uneducated opinion, Bon Scott had the coolest voice I've ever heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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