Chisoxfn Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 The price, according to sources, could be paid one of two ways: either 20-year-old right-hander Edwin Jackson, Mota and the 20-year-old Gutierrez or the more credentialed (and less valuable) Perez, Mota, Miller, who will pitch in Double-A at age 19, and another prospect. Personally I think either offer would be more then fair. I'd tend to go with the Perez, Mota, Miller deal because it helps the Sox more "NOW". But for those that aren't familiar with Guiterez the guy is a hell of a prospect, although I don't know if he can play CF in the big leagues. He was one of the Dodgers in the future game last year and really impressed me. If you remember, he had a base hit off of Cotts where he kept battling and finally ripped one opposite field for a basehit. If Williams got this and Williamson for Maggs and Rauch/Wright I'd be a happy camper. Like I've felt numerous times, the Sox need pitching. They still have Lee, Thomas and Konerko. They are right handed dominant, yes, but all three are still very productive players...so don't even go out comparing this years Sox to last years Dodgers (not that the Sox would have that pitching after this deal...but they'd be in much better shape) only having to add a right handed starter and possibly deal Koch. Still that rotation would be: Elo Buerhle Perez Garland FA/Cotts/Wright or Rauch/Diaz/Miller Pen Williamson Mota Marte Koch (Or if they do the deal for the lefty prospect) Wunsch Youngster Youngster or Dan Wright To me thats better then getting Nomar. I realize that Nomar is better then Jose and this will sicken me to say this, but he isn't 9 mill a year better not when you also consider what else the Sox are getting. I'd still prefer to then ship Jose for Carlos Guillen if at all possible. Anyway I don't want Nomar staying in Chicago...it just seems the best way they can win is if they can pull one of these deals with the Dodgers. If they do it for Maggs, then thats fine too...they can still make the deal with the BoSox for Williamson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Personally if we are going to deal Maggs, I feel we need to get a White Flag type package of guys. I would go for the deal without Perez. Give me those two young pitchers, odds are one of them lives up to the hype and becomes a stud. I think you will be able to find a guy who makes half of what Perez does as a nontender, who will put up just as good of numbers. Hell just looking at the preliminary list of Jason Johnson, Damian Moss, and Freddy Garcia, I would rather have any of those guys vs O Perez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 I agree with your scenario. I'd love to get that 1B prospect they have out in LA, he's a left handed stick if I remember correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 I'd rather see Schoeneweis as the 5th starter than Cotts/Wright/Rauch/Diaz/Miller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 19, 2003 Author Share Posted December 19, 2003 Personally if we are going to deal Maggs, I feel we need to get a White Flag type package of guys. I would go for the deal without Perez. Give me those two young pitchers, odds are one of them lives up to the hype and becomes a stud. I think you will be able to find a guy who makes half of what Perez does as a nontender, who will put up just as good of numbers. Hell just looking at the preliminary list of Jason Johnson, Damian Moss, and Freddy Garcia, I would rather have any of those guys vs O Perez. Each deal has the Sox gaining only one pitching prospect. I love Jackson, but Miller may be a bit more valuable since he's a lefty so I preferred scenario two. But if the Sox were to do scenario one and say they'd use the money Perez would of got in arbitration on another pitcher, then they are better off with scenario one. Mota, Jackson and Guiterez (CF Prospect...also can play first). I'd then like to see the Sox add Washburn if at all possible, otherwise go with Garcia, Johnson or someone else. Then I'd sign a cheap 5th like Lidle/Damian Moss and let those two compete with Edwin Jackson, plus it gives you depth. I'd be much happier with that then getting Nomar and losing him and not seeing the Sox able to get pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostInBoston Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 I'm all with you here. I really don't want Nomah and if we do get him, its necessary to ship him off immediately. It does nothing to help us having him around. The lineup that you have above has an amazing bullpen, a rather good rotation and a batting order (provided they aren't in a 2002-like haze) that can hold its own with any team. Plus, we'd have guys waiting in the wings for later in the season. Unfortunately, it sounds like the Dodgers are rather unwilling to give up any of these top prospects of theirs. We'll see... gotta hate the waiting game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Guiterez the guy is a hell of a prospect, although I don't know if he can play CF in the big leagues. He was one of the Dodgers in the future game last year and really impressed me. If you remember, he had a base hit off of Cotts where he kept battling and finally ripped one opposite field for a basehit. I remember that At-bat... That was a great match-up ... niether guy would give in.. I love baseball... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 I like scenario one plus signing Washburn or Garcia It works better now and for the future. Then if possible move Konerko and sign Palmeiro to add a power lefty to the line up, Thomas, Palmeiro and Lee would be a very good heart of the order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Unfortunately, it sounds like the Dodgers are rather unwilling to give up any of these top prospects of theirs. We'll see... gotta hate the waiting game. That's just Dodger fans spouting off thinking that what they say goes in the organization. I've seen them say "We're not giving up any of our prospects", and if Evans does think that way, fine, he can live without a big RH bat. Can't get talent without giving talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I like scenario one plus signing Washburn or Garcia It works better now and for the future. Then if possible move Konerko and sign Palmeiro to add a power lefty to the line up, Thomas, Palmeiro and Lee would be a very good heart of the order. As good as Raffy has been, I believe he is, basically, done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Each deal has the Sox gaining only one pitching prospect. I love Jackson, but Miller may be a bit more valuable since he's a lefty so I preferred scenario two. But if the Sox were to do scenario one and say they'd use the money Perez would of got in arbitration on another pitcher, then they are better off with scenario one. Mota, Jackson and Guiterez (CF Prospect...also can play first). I'd then like to see the Sox add Washburn if at all possible, otherwise go with Garcia, Johnson or someone else. Then I'd sign a cheap 5th like Lidle/Damian Moss and let those two compete with Edwin Jackson, plus it gives you depth. I'd be much happier with that then getting Nomar and losing him and not seeing the Sox able to get pitching. I like this scenario. I hope Evans and Williams can bury the hatchet long enough to oull this trade off. It can help both teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 IF the deal doesn't involve Jackson, then shut it down. This scouting report from Baseball America: Strengths: Jackson’s picturesque delivery, clean arm action and premium athleticism aid him in making 98 mph fastballs look effortless. He sits between 91-97 and can maintain his velocity deep into games. His slider and changeup both have come a long way since he made the full-time conversion to pitching, and while he’s not consistent with his secondary pitches he flashes above-average potential with both offerings. Each of his three pitches features plus life, with his fastball boring up into the zone, his slider showing hard bite and depth at times, and his circle changeup fading and sinking. Jackson demonstrates an advanced feel for pitching too, not afraid to pitch inside or double up on sliders and changeups. The Dodgers have done a fine job limiting Jackson’s workload. He was limited to around 100 pitches a start, and he was scratched from the Arizona Fall League to avoid putting more innings on his arm. Weaknesses: Jackson has been unfazed by his rapid ascent. He still needs to gain consistency and confidence with his slider and changeup. Like many strikeout pitchers, he can amass lofty pitch counts. With three potential out pitches and plus command, that shouldn’t be an issue for long. The Future: Jackson is the complete package, and fits the profile of a top-of-the-line starting pitcher to a tee. He established himself as one of the elite prospects in baseball even before his September callup, and his performance all but guaranteed him a spot in the Los Angeles rotation for 2004. He’s the best homegrown pitching prospect the Dodgers have developed since Pedro Martinez, and they don’t plan on letting this one get away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I tend to disagree with most of u and pick the first trade scenario. However, I know there are lots and lots of people round here who luv Mota heaps, but there is the risk of him comin to Chicago and not livin up to our hefty expectations. He may not put up his LA numbers in a different ballpark. The first scenario sees us gettin Gutierrez and then we can trade Joe Borchard while his value is still high for some more pitchin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Personally if we are going to deal Maggs, I feel we need to get a White Flag type package of guys. I would go for the deal without Perez. Give me those two young pitchers, odds are one of them lives up to the hype and becomes a stud. I think you will be able to find a guy who makes half of what Perez does as a nontender, who will put up just as good of numbers. Hell just looking at the preliminary list of Jason Johnson, Damian Moss, and Freddy Garcia, I would rather have any of those guys vs O Perez. Hopefully we'd get a better package than the white flag package - that didn't include a single creme de la creme prospect (good prospects, but not elite prospects). Go for the one with Guitterez - we need a CF in the worst way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hex Rudler Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Those Dodger prospects are certainly intriguing, but whoever mentioned Joe Borchard -- Does he indeed still have a high trade value? I don't see how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 But for those that aren't familiar with Guiterez the guy is a hell of a prospect, although I don't know if he can play CF in the big leagues. I don't know a lot about Gutierrez, but don't we already have a guy who may not be able to play CF in the big leagues and strikes out 120+ times a year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 As good as Raffy has been, I believe he is, basically, done. His average has come down but I think he is still good for 30 to 35 homers and 100rbi and we need a lefty in the line up in the worst way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 His average has come down but I think he is still good for 30 to 35 homers and 100rbi and we need a lefty in the line up in the worst way. I think Palmeiro would be a great addition if Konerko can be moved...... not sure how much it would take to sign him, however... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I think Palmeiro might even be a better addition at 1B than having Koerko. He is a better fielder and is a lefty bat we need for balance. I like Paulie though and if he is with the Sox next year I think he will rebound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Hopefully we'd get a better package than the white flag package - that didn't include a single creme de la creme prospect (good prospects, but not elite prospects). Go for the one with Guitterez - we need a CF in the worst way. i disagree we got foulke and howery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I would prefer the future one too. We get Jackson, who will almost undoubtedly help us in the future, Mota, who will help us now, and Gutierrez, who will also probably help us in the future, all the while saving about $13 mill which can be used for other positions. There are quite a few good starters that will be non-tendered(many already have, like Jason Johnson, Damian Moss, Tony Armas, Orlando Hernandez....probably Freddy Garcia too)....sign two of those guys and you have your rotation(and that would take all of $5-6 mill to sign two of them). Then we trade Kong and Koch for whatever we can get for them(maybe include Kong in the trade to LA and get Miller or Loney or whatever), and Koch to the Mets for Weathers or whatever they want to give us, and then, I think the pitching staff is set. We'd have a bullpen of Marte, Wunsch, Mota, Weathers, Grilli and then Diaz/Wright, which seems to be an OK bullpen, along with a rotation of Loaiza, Buehrle, Garland and then two FA's that will be nontendered. At that point I'd hope that we could get Juan Gone and then have Frank play 1B, Juan DH, and Carlos playing LF with Harris in CF and Rowand in RF, and from there we could make changes to other positions as we need it(like, for instance, I would not mind signing Todd Walker to play 2B....I think he'd be a pretty damn good pickup). Next year, the s*** changes again, and we get to have some more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I remember hearing that if Texas got rid of ARod, they were going to sign Walker to play 2B and move Young to SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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