Palestine vs. Israel

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Now that's ridiculous.    I was even willing to go along with the whole "My daughter's brains were blown all over my face on the playground by an Israeli bullet, I want revenge, praised be Allah" premise, but this is too much.    It's akin to saying "Arab world hates us so much and considers us a world-conquering Zionist virus, we are traumatized and have no choice but to live up to the billing".  At some point, you gotta accept responsibility for your actions as YOUR doing, YOUR fault. That cuts both ways, of course and you know what I think about Arab Slayer Sharon....

 

And, besides, how do you know Palestinians want peace at all let alone peace at a significant cost to their religious and national pride? Becuase one of your friends is Palestinian or maybe because you saw an activist on TV?  Why noble Palestinians could never support terrorist organizations; all those mass flag burnings and rallys calling for Isralie blood are an unconventional way of expressinglove and desire for peace......And what is this BS about "radical right wing fringe group", wichih are presumed to be a minority? Israeli MAJORITY does NOT think Palestinians want peace and supports harsher measures such as the Fence.  Majority, many quite centrist and moderate.

 

I'll say this to you one more time:  Zionism is NOT =  Imprerialist Aggression.

Zionism is about SELF-PRESERVATION. Zionism is about DEMANDING f***ING RESPECT FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD.

 

And since the won territories RIGHTFULLY belong to Israel (you'll be giving up Texas  and California any moment now, I presume?  What, you mean UN won't be pressuring you anytime soon?  Well, they must know what's best.....), that means there was NO invading, there is NO occupying either;  Israel is DEFENDING itself and it's territories from hostile and desperate neighbors as far as it's concerned.    Sure, it may feel magnanimous one of these days and throw Palestine a land bone in a grand Rabin-ian gesture of peace....but make no mistake about,  it AIN'T no Imperialism, which incidentally you can inquire Britain, France, USSR, Germany and a few others about. 

 

And in the unlikely event that Israel gets attacked AGAIN and manages to capture half Asia Minor in the process, that STILL won't make it Imprerialist in any way shape or form but imaginary.  Deal with it.

 

[/wishing Palestinian economy will reboud propelled by the cash influx created by Arafat and Co reimbursting stolen money, and suffering stops and all is well in the region]

I'm nost saying that the Palestinians are lily white in this, not by a long shot. I am saying however, there is a right wing radical fringe that believes, much like Israel4ever, that ALL Palestinians don't want peace and only contribute suicide bombs to the world. Given that, it is easy to see how some, not ALL Palestinians have that as part of their mindset in developing their radical beliefs that ultimately culminate in attacks against Israel. Yes, ultimately it is a conscious effort to say "Hey, I'm gonna throw a dynamite vest with shrapnel covered in rat poison and get on a bus and detonate it" but there is a lot of environmental experience that goes into creating the ideology of a person who would ultimately do that. [see the articles I've posted for various reasons] My intent in that statement you quoted was not that it was the end all be all, but just one of many factors that went into the formulation of creating radical terrorist Palestinians.

[Rex Kickass]

What's with all the puppy stomping bashing? Can't someone crush puppies in peace? Geez!

 

PUPPY STOMPERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!

[southsider2k5]

BTW congrats to all who have been in this thread... This is the longest thread in SLP history and the 10th longest overall in Soxtalk history. Yes I am that bored at work.

[Texsox]

BTW congrats to all who have been in this thread...  This is the longest thread in SLP history and the 10th longest overall in Soxtalk history.  Yes I am that bored at work.

ahem cough *spam* cough

[Ishmookie]

Here's a newsflash, Israel is not the 51st state of the Union and should not be treated as such. Sabra and Shatila, anyone? Israel has lots of blood on its hands...especially that of innocent Palestinians who have died at the hands of missile attacks.

 

Give me a break apu. Did u see the palestinians dancing in the streets after september 11th. The IDF ONLY goes after terrorists NOT civilians. That school chart u posted totally bs. I feel not all Palestinians are bad people, but it is not fair to Israelis when Palestinian terrorists are blowing up innocent civilians everyday, and then Israel is made to look like a cruel nation because they are responding to Palestinian attacks. The Israelis have NEVER provoked a terrorist attack they just respond. If the palestinians just want a place to live then why did they not take that oppertunity in '98 when slick willy met with barak and arafat and offered the palestinians the land they LOST in 67. By the way the Arabs started that war, and they also STARTED the war in '48 when Israel first was a nation. The palestinians also say they want peace and condone terrorist attacks, then why DON'T THEY STOP BLOWING UP PASSOVER SEDARS, AND HOTELS, AND BUSES, AND RESTAURANTS.......

[Be Good]

DAM why is this thread so popular, this is only the 1st time im lookin at it

[cwsox]

not to be forgotten

[Texsox]

Give me a break apu. Did u see the palestinians dancing in the streets after september 11th.

Did you see the home grown terrorists that celebrated after Oklahoma City? Should all American's be condemed? Be careful of painting with too wide a brush.

[BrandoFan]

I'm nost saying that the Palestinians are lily white in this, not by a long shot.  I am saying however, there is a right wing radical fringe that believes, much like Israel4ever, that ALL Palestinians don't want peace and only contribute suicide bombs to the world.  Given that, it is easy to see how some, not ALL Palestinians have that as part of their mindset in developing their radical beliefs that ultimately culminate in attacks against Israel.  Yes, ultimately it is a conscious effort to say "Hey, I'm gonna throw a dynamite vest with shrapnel covered in rat poison and get on a bus and detonate it" but there is a lot of environmental experience that goes into creating the ideology of a person who would ultimately do that.  [see the articles I've posted for various reasons]  My intent in that statement you quoted was not that it was the end all be all, but just one of many factors that went into the formulation of creating radical terrorist Palestinians.

"Environmental experience", "formulation of creating radical mindset".....Before long, with fancy words one could probably explain how Nazis were too a product of their time/place and partly justify their actions.

 

It comes down to this: don't f*** with Israelies, especially when you're a guest on THEIR land. Or there will be hell of a price to pay. And they got just the right blood-soaked butcher for the job in Sharon.

 

Worship whomever you like, be as lazy as lazy as you want, burn whatever flags you like, chant hateful rhetoric from the hilltops til the cows come home, put all your eggs in PA basket and let Arafat and Co. steal billions from you, play the world's biggest violin at the UN assemblies, ally yourself with whatever Arab or Socialist cause, in short do anything your heart desires.....But when you strap on that vest, when you stick that rifle out of the window, when you overtly or covertly support terrorist organizations that want to harm Eretz Isroel, you're bringing YOUR people that much closer to total destruction and doom. Think of the children indeed. Sad life ain't no excuse for nothin'.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

"Environmental experience", "formulation of creating radical mindset".....Before long, with fancy words one could probably explain how Nazis were too a product of their time and partly justify their actions.

 

It comes down to this:  don't f*** with Israelies, especially when you're a guest on THEIR land. Or there will be hell of a price to pay.

 

Worship whomever you like, be as lazy as lazy as you want, burn whatever flags you like, chant hateful rhetoric from the hilltops til the cows come home, put all your eggs in PA basket and let Arafat and Co. steal billions from you,  play the world's biggest violin at the UN assemblies, ally yourself with whatever Arab or Socialist cause,  in short do anything your heart desires.....But when you strap on that vest, when you stick that rifle out of the window, when you overtly or covertly support terrorist organizations that want to harm Eretz Isroel, you're bringing YOUR people that much closer to total destruction and doom.  Think of the children indeed.  Sad life ain't no excuse for nothin'.

Sure, some Nazis did it for pure hatred of Jews, homosexuals, communists, socialists, et al. However to paint with a broad brush that everybody involved with it was in it for that reason is asinine. Even Hermann Georing said that "the common person doesn't want war". I mean, look how many troops disagreed with the policy in Iraq but went and served anyway.

 

And Brando, this is my question for both sides: Has missile attacks/helicopter gunship attacks stopped suicide bombs? Have suicide bombs removed Israelis from the illegal settlements in the occupied territories or gotten back the occupied lands? There needs to be a serious rethinking of policy on both sides or, like I said before, they're in for a long and bloody walk in circles.

 

Israel has an unprosecuted war criminal for a leader and Palestine, they need a great leader and they got stuck with an Arafat. As long as there is violence, the Palestinian hardline will ally itself with Arafat as will the Israeli hardline with their extreme right wing members of the Likud party. It's a pity that these two countries have incredibly s***ty leadership. I mean, if Arafat is such a huge supporter of fighting for the cause...my friend Adam and I always wonder [like we do with Osama] "If they are really so hardcore into the cause why don't they blow themselves up?" I think that there could be somewhat of a decrease in the willingness of people to strap bombs to themselves if the officially recognized state stops their terrorism [i.e. Harper's article etc.] and apologizes for their errors like Sabra, Shatila, and collateral damage attacks. The idea that ANY group acts like that they make no errors and won't apologize [this goes for the Palestinians as well] makes it very easy to catalyze anger towards the perpetrators. There is incredible wrong on both sides and it will take a vast change in the ideology of both sides for there to be any real strides in decreasing the terrorism wrought upon innocents of either side. It's unfortunate that none of us can actually really make that change happen within this country.

 

Ishmookie, the IDF [read the Harper's story I posted along with my other sources in this thread] goes after innocent people at times. See also, the Physicians for Human Rights and UN research on the subject that I posted earlier in the thread. In fact, 85% of the Palestinian casualties are "collateral damage". And you can say that the chart is BS, but it is backed up by facts from well respected organizations. [Read previous pages in the thread for the source names etc] And I personally know a few people who are Palestinian...and on 9/11 they and their families were not celebrating and I'm quite angered at your painting an entire race of people with such a broad brush. Ish, if the IDF wants peace then why do they go to territories and shoot kids for sport like has been depicted in articles? Or why do they attack schools? It goes both ways. And it's not just liberal bleeding hearts that are saying it...it's even members of the most elite Israeli fighting force, the Sayaret Metkal saying the same thing. FlaSoxxJim, me and others went through this with Israel4ever already.

[BrandoFan]

Has missile attacks/helicopter gunship attacks stopped suicide bombs?

 

To an extent, yes. Can you imagine if there were no consequences at all, no collateral damage, how many MORE attacks would be perpetrated? Similarly, if the Ben Gurion airport security became lax, there would be planes hi-jacked WEEKLY. And so on. However, I already admitted that it's not working NEARLY as well as Israel hoped it would. It's just that the other alternative is even worse as harsh as that sounds. Welcome to ME warfare reality.

 

Have suicide bombs removed Israelis from the illegal settlements in the occupied territories or gotten back the occupied lands?

 

How many times have Arafat walked away from the Peace Table? Do you think Israel was offering the lands that they see as righfully (moral right, not arbitrary UN right) belong to them out of the goodness of their collective heart? No, those suicide bombers were distrubping their economy, their way of life big time. If it weren't such an effective weapon of persuation, terrorists wouldn't be using it for so long. Given the TRUE objective of PLO and the Arab world, and considering Arafat and Thugs' desire to stay in power (as per Jauggernaut's post) at all costs, it's likely that suicide bombs would continue to go off long AFTER West Bank is in Palestinian possession. What will Israel do then? Take the lost lands back because the conditions were not met? Trust me, there will be another HAMAS, another excuse, there will be another cause. There will be another intifada. There will another trecherous attempt to pin it all on Israel and to pressure UN. And so on.......Israel is not THAT altruistic and never claimed to be. Safery and security first. Nataniachu and many others echoed that sentiment/policy in so many words during the recent Gertzl convention.

 

There needs to be a serious rethinking of policy on both sides or, like I said before, they're in for a long and bloody walk in circles

.

 

We'll see how the Fence works. If it does, Sharon will get overwhelming support of his people, which would ultimately lead to Transfer 3-5 years from now. Which is basically what Churchill and many wise polits-ci and social theorists argued for ages: Isralites and Palestinians/Arabs should be SEPARATED, that's the ONLY way to ensure long-term peace. And since Israel ain't about to give up the trophey/penalty lands it took in numerous wars started by its enemy, that means it's time for Palis to pack the f*** up.

 

As it were.

[israel4ever]

I've been quiet for awhile, and HOPEFULLY this will be my last posting on this issue.

 

My first point is this...I resent Apu calling Sharon a war criminal, when he (Apu) shows so much love for Arafat and his terrorist regime. Sabra and Shatilla were unfortunate events, I admit. However, with re. the lastest intafada, to even imply that Sharon was the cause is absolute lunacy. Sharon went to the Temple Mount, a historically significant Jewish holy place, to which he had EVERY right to go. "Palestinians" went "nuts" because of this, and with Arafat's urging/support.

 

Fast forward to the "Road Map", wherein the PA agrees it will disarm ALL terrorist organizations simultaneously with the Israelis dismantling illegal settlements. Immediately upon agreeing to this, the PA says it won't disarm the terrorists because they don't want a civil war, but that Israel should dismantle settlements regardless. Then the PA wants all it's prisoners held in Israeli prisons released as part of the "Road Map", (even though there is NO MENTION OF PRISONER RELEASE in the Road Map). Once again, the Arafat and the PA expect the Israelis to capitulate to all it's demands, and to do NOTHING in return.

 

Which leads me to today...I originally posted on this thread in the hopes of educating some of you, and maybe changing minds. I (not so) quickly learned that a lot of you are deadset in your opinions, as erroneous as they may be. But, my mind was changed a bit, as a result of some of your opinions and the personal attacks on me and My People, and here's how;

 

1) I am a Zionist, and VERY proud of it. I would rather die than see one square foot of Israel go under Arab control, and will do evrything in my power to prevent that from happening. Thus, I will donate $1.00 for each posting on this thread to the following organizations...The American Zionist Association, The Friends of the IDF, and the LIBI Fund (for strengthening the Israeli military).

 

2) A great Jewish leader once said the Arab problem in Israel is like a cancer. (If you have cancer, you have to remove it or destroy it, or it will kill you.) He was 100% correct. (Kahane chai!). I will also be donating money to the Kach Party, and dedicating the donation to my "Friends at Soxtalk.com".

 

3) Keep up the bashing of Sharon...maybe if world opinion sways so heavily against him that Israel will remove him from power. Then...get ready for BINYAMIN NETANYAHU, a war hero and genuine bad ass! Then "it" will hit the fan, and I'll sit back and enjoy every minute of it.

 

SHALOM!

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Is it just me or is the supreme irony of I4E discussing wholesale slaughter and violence followed by I4E saying "Peace" at the end being seen by everybody?

 

I4E, if you'd like to discuss personal attacks at you, I'd like to see that: As for ones you've hurled at me "terrorist supporter", "whore", "douchebag", anti-Semite", "Jew hater" etc. So please stop with the pariah complex. And yes I4E, in my posts when I say that "The Palestinians need a great leader and all they got was an Arafat" that obviously means that I loooooove Arafat.

 

Your debate skills, or lack thereof, are quite...in a word...pitiful. You do not argue against the points I make with facts but rather personal attacks. Then you assert that your opposition stands for positions that they don't really stand for and attack those "straw man" positions. And who can forget my favorite "This is BS" and then not back up your opinion with any reason as to why it should be considered wrong since it comes from a respected source.

 

You can resent my calling Sharon a war criminal, but it doesn't make it any less true. Sharon is, as Brando put it "a blood soaked butcher".

 

As for the PA not disarming the rebels...with the IDF keeping Arafat in a 2 room compound with no electricity, no plumbing etc. how can anybody expect him to have control over disarming rebels? I mean, I hate Arafat as a manipulative little piece of garbage but destroying his ability to reach the masses etc. then that definitely undermines his ability to corral the extremists in.

 

The basic assumption behind the Israeli claim that Arafat "must do more" to stop attacks on Israel is that the primary role of the Palestinian Authority is not to work for the security and well-being of the Palestinian people, but rather to guarantee the security and safety of Israeli occupation forces, settlers and civilians.

 

Even if such an arrangement were politically tenable, the realities of the past ten years made it impossible. The Palestinian Authority is not a sovereign state, but a quasi-authority which at the height of its power was only given control over 17.2% of the Israeli occupied West Bank (so called "Area A" under the Oslo and subsequent accords). Even Israel with all its military and economic might could not guarantee its own safety when it controlled every inch of the West Bank.

 

Over the past 18 months, Israel has systematically attacked all the facilities of the Palestinian Authority, including police stations, prisons and intelligence headquarters, and killed and assassinated many Palestinian security officers. Hence while crippling and killing the Palestinian security forces, Israel makes the ludicrous demand that these same forces go out and work on Israel's behalf.

 

Israel has further undermined its own claim that Arafat is "in control" of all the violence, by continuing to demand that he act while he is a prisoner of the Israelis in two rooms of his Ramallah headquarters, with no outside contact, no electricity and barely enough food and water.

 

The suicide bombings which have followed the brutal Israeli re-invasions of almost every major West Bank town since late March 2002 prove conclusively that there is no level of violence or ruthlessness that either Israel or the Palestinian Authority can employ that will eliminate those determined to answer the suffering of millions of Palestinian civilians under decades of Israeli military occupation by inflicting suffering on Israeli civilians.

 

The only way to end suicide bombings and other kinds of Palestinian violence is to end the extreme violence of the Israeli military occupation which produces and fuels both Palestinian resistance against the occupation forces and violent attacks against Israeli civilians. Absent a political process explicitly designed to end the occupation, there is little reason to believe that such attacks can or will end.

 

And hey, I'll donate to CAIR, Electronic Intifada and the ADC too.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

And hey, I'll donate to CAIR, Electronic Intifada and the ADC too.

From what you just told me you may have to break open your penny bank to buy em a tofu burger let alone donate.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

From what you just told me you may have to break open your penny bank to buy em a tofu burger let alone donate.

LOL, I've got cash...it's just that most college textbooks, as I'm sure a lot of college kids on here will attest, are really f***ing expensive, haha.

[IlliniBob72]

One thing I found rather incomprehensible, and maybe I've got my facts wrong, lending to the insensibility of it, was when there was a "cease fire" after Bush visited the Middle East a suicide bomber blew up a bus killing dozens. Israel retaliated and then Hamas claimed that Israel broke the cease fire and they'd retaliate. That was the most ridiculous thing I'd ever heard and the fact that reporters could relay these things without shaking their heads in disbelief is beyond me.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

IIRC, the suicide bomber might have been part of the Al Aqsa's Martyrs Brigade, an organization that did not take part in the cease fire. I may not be 100% correct on this because it's a little after midnight and I've been drinking a little this evening.

[southsider2k5]

Hey Apu, you left out of your signature, that your mother dresses you funny

[BrandoFan]

Which leads me to today...I originally posted on this thread in the hopes of educating some of you, and maybe changing minds

 

It's true, before you joined the debate, many posters on this board were indeed starving for factual education and moral guidance. Others just needed a male role model and a shoulder to cry on. Hell, I've always wanted to learn the finer points of Stealthian ninjametry from a real-life Grand Imperial Douchebag, but never felt I could share this burning need with anyone; your gentle, enlightening touch has been liberating. Thank you.

 

Do you speak Ivri't?

[YASNY]

IIRC, the suicide bomber might have been part of the Al Aqsa's Martyrs Brigade, an organization that did not take part in the cease fire.  I may not be 100% correct on this because it's a little after midnight and I've been drinking a little this evening.

That's like saying the Isreali military company, regiment, whatever ... did not take part in the cease fire.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I don't believe Apu was the one who labeled Sharon a war criminal. According to the informative link CW posted, Belgium (among others) has already done that. You have to admit that with a past like Sharon has, electing him Prime Minister is not going to be seen by the world as evidence that there is an Israeli commitment to peace or justice.

 

I believe in the seeking of reparations for past war crime offenses. I do not fault the families of Holocaust victims one bit for seeking some degree of justice through reparations. (I also believe American Indians have the same rights, but that's just me).

 

Apu has clearly stated his disdain for Arafat, as we all have. He has done an admirable job in pointing out the catch 22 by which Arafat and the PA have their hands effectively cut off while at the same time it is demanded of them that they stop the suicide bombings and other terrorist attacks. The point through all of this is that many participants in this discussion feel that no side can clearly claim to hold the moral high ground since no side has tried to take the moral high road to get there. Violence begets violence, hate begets hate, evil begets evil. Evil means cannot be ethically justified as a way to an end even if the end is just or desired.

 

It is indeed tragic that an apparently workable cease-fire was within reach just a few years ago. While it would be nice if all Palestinian fringe groups could have been forced to heed the call to disarm it is not realistic. Israel had a right to react but should have taken great pains to indicate that it understood that the despicable acts of fringe groups did not speak to the majority of Palestinian's sentiment or even the desire of the PA to try to adhere to the peace process. Too quickly, the moment that should have been seized on had slipped away, and that is the fault of both sides.

 

I have never seen historical Zionists as entirely bad. Consider Eliza Greenblatt, Woody Guthrie's Father-in-law, who like Woody, was passionate about social justice, anti-fascism and union organizing. I like this story, that has nothing to do with the current debate. It talks about (non-Jew) Woody's little known Jewish music and called him am "Underground Railroad for Jewish boys" like Bobby Zimmerman and all. It also mentions Woody's philosphy on religion, which pretty much sums up how I feel on the issue: “Woody loved [all] spirituality,” she says. “He felt all religions sprang from the same well.” For me, I venture as far as saying that even if there is no Divine Agent, it does not invalidate the need and worth of the belief systems of the world at seeing the common denominator in all of it, our own humanity and human frailty.

 

I agree that it is odd and unfortunate that 4ever can with a straight face sign off with 'Shalom' after admitting that he is looking forward to a ring-side seat when it hits the fan. I do not share his faith but I have a more legitimate claim on the word and the sprit of that word than he does (I'm also sure I have a way better Klezmer music collection than he does... so there! I'll be putting on some Klezmer All Stars on the Rio while I gut the grass today I think).

 

And so... Shalom (really!)

Peace,

Love and Do What You Will

[Texsox]

Well I was really hoping that Israel4ever would give me his list of the 3 worst things that Israel and Palestine have done, and also how he assigns the blame for this mess.

 

I4E, It really damages your credibility when you are incapable of examining Israel's role in all this. Besides stating they are perfect.

 

Is the US as perfect as Israel?

[israel4ever]

Is it just me or is the supreme irony of I4E discussing wholesale slaughter and violence followed by I4E saying "Peace" at the end being seen by everybody?

 

I4E, if you'd like to discuss personal attacks at you, I'd like to see that:  As for ones you've hurled at me "terrorist supporter", "whore", "douchebag", anti-Semite", "Jew hater" etc.  So please stop with the pariah complex.  And yes I4E, in my posts when I say that "The Palestinians need a great leader and all they got was an Arafat" that obviously means that I loooooove Arafat.

 

Your debate skills, or lack thereof, are quite...in a word...pitiful.  You do not argue against the points I make with facts but rather personal attacks.  Then you assert that your opposition stands for positions that they don't really stand for and attack those "straw man" positions.  And who can forget my favorite "This is BS" and then not back up your opinion with any reason as to why it should be considered wrong since it comes from a respected source.

 

You can resent my calling Sharon a war criminal, but it doesn't make it any less true.  Sharon is, as Brando put it "a blood soaked butcher".

 

As for the PA not disarming the rebels...with the IDF keeping Arafat in a 2 room compound with no electricity, no plumbing etc. how can anybody expect him to have control over disarming rebels?  I mean, I hate Arafat as a manipulative little piece of garbage but destroying his ability to reach the masses etc. then that definitely undermines his ability to corral the extremists in.

 

The basic assumption behind the Israeli claim that Arafat "must do more" to stop attacks on Israel is that the primary role of the Palestinian Authority is not to work for the security and well-being of the Palestinian people, but rather to guarantee the security and safety of Israeli occupation forces, settlers and civilians.

 

Even if such an arrangement were politically tenable, the realities of the past ten years made it impossible. The Palestinian Authority is not a sovereign state, but a quasi-authority which at the height of its power was only given control over 17.2% of the Israeli occupied West Bank (so called "Area A" under the Oslo and subsequent accords). Even Israel with all its military and economic might could not guarantee its own safety when it controlled every inch of the West Bank.

 

Over the past 18 months, Israel has systematically attacked all the facilities of the Palestinian Authority, including police stations, prisons and intelligence headquarters, and killed and assassinated many Palestinian security officers. Hence while crippling and killing the Palestinian security forces, Israel makes the ludicrous demand that these same forces go out and work on Israel's behalf.

 

Israel has further undermined its own claim that Arafat is "in control" of all the violence, by continuing to demand that he act while he is a prisoner of the Israelis in two rooms of his Ramallah headquarters, with no outside contact, no electricity and barely enough food and water.

 

The suicide bombings which have followed the brutal Israeli re-invasions of almost every major West Bank town since late March 2002 prove conclusively that there is no level of violence or ruthlessness that either Israel or the Palestinian Authority can employ that will eliminate those determined to answer the suffering of millions of Palestinian civilians under decades of Israeli military occupation by inflicting suffering on Israeli civilians.

 

The only way to end suicide bombings and other kinds of Palestinian violence is to end the extreme violence of the Israeli military occupation which produces and fuels both Palestinian resistance against the occupation forces and violent attacks against Israeli civilians. Absent a political process explicitly designed to end the occupation, there is little reason to believe that such attacks can or will end.

 

And hey, I'll donate to CAIR, Electronic Intifada and the ADC too.

Apu...keep on donating to Arab (terrorist causes)...you'll just be lining Arafat's pockets!

 

Don't tell me that Arafat would have disarmed the terrorist groups, he's had 40 years to do so, and hasn't lifted a finger!

[israel4ever]

IIRC, the suicide bomber might have been part of the Al Aqsa's Martyrs Brigade, an organization that did not take part in the cease fire.  I may not be 100% correct on this because it's a little after midnight and I've been drinking a little this evening.

Last time I looked, Al Aqsa Brigade is directly under Arafat's command!!!

[Texsox]

Last time I looked, Al Aqsa Brigade is directly under Arafat's command!!!

Interesting, do they publish a team roster?

 

And what has Israel done wrong in all this?