kapkomet Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 A lot of what you say is true, and I commend you for writing it in such an eloquent fashion. I have the following comments, though. 1) Israel has NO responsibility to make "palis'" lives better. The Arabs that live in Israel have better lives, and live more comfortably and with more freedoms than 95+% of Arabs living in Arab countries. But, the "palis" are Arabs, thus, the Arab nations have the reponsibility to help their brethren. The problem here is, the rest of the Arab world sees the "palis" as worthless. (i.e. "Black Sunday" when Jordan slaughtered 10,000+ "palis", (you don't know about that though, but if Israel kills 1 Hamas militant, you and your liberal friends cry foul!)). 2) The word "occupation" is a misnomer, the correct term should be "Disputed Territories". Pre-1967, Egypt, Syria, etc., told the Arabs living in Israel, to get out, and when they destroy Israel, these Arabs would then have their own nation. But as you know, Israel kicked the Arabs' asses, and the pre-6day war Israeli Arabs were made "refugees". (TO THE VICTOR GOES THE SPOILS!!!) 3) Root causes of anti-Israel terrorism...children are "brain-washed" from Day 1 to hate the Jews. They are taught that the Jews are the Devil, and the cause of their impoverished conditions. Meanwhile, Arafat is worth BILLIONS! Money that was given to "Palestine" to improve the conditions of it's people. I can see how that is Israel's fault. 4) I am college/law school degreed, and have an above average IQ...you are probably a fry cook or something similar, with a GED. If anyone is "f***ed in the head".... I've stayed out of this one, but not anymore. I4E, you were ok until you had to go and make that last statement. You remind me of a business partner I had a few years back. You can always tell everyone how freakin' educated you are, but if you have to resort to that in a forum such as this, you're actually nobody. You don't know a thing about me, and I guarantee you that I'm going to be an uneducated, Jew hating bastard for saying anything against you. I will only say that I am at least as educated (from a college standpoint) as you. You don't need to know anymore. A person's education can do one of two things for them. It can open their eyes to see that not everything is black and white, and to dig a little deeper and not accept "truths" that are stated. Or, it can harden someone like yourself to become a fool and relying on your "education" to not seek out what is reality - in other words, you rely too much on your "law school education" and become lazy. If I had to pick one, I'd pick the second choice about you. Why? Because every time someone has asked you to back yourself up with facts, you spew the same BS. You're lazy, you really don't want to really work to help change our minds on this issue. As for my stance - (only the surface), the "Palis" are indeed led by (at best) a hypocrite who led (and continue to lead) them to a path of destruction. Isreal, and their people, as God's chosen ones are probably more right then wrong in this. But again, they are led by MAN, and MAN is infallible - not 99.9% of the time, 100% of the time. Period. Take the frickin' blinders off, man, and buy yourself a clue. The first step to being as smart as you think you are is to admit that there is ALWAYS (at least) two sides to every story. And if you want to redeem yourself, go back and REALLY answer the questions that have been asked of you in these (now 42) pages. Then maybe you'll have some validity and prove your "law school education". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I am always impressed when someone points out over and over and over again how educated they are.. then resort to 2 year old fighting tactics. The above posters (yourself included) started with casting dispersions at my job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Thanks for making the proving of my point easy. You are highjacking the Jewish religion for your own racist political purposes. When you say the Torah doesn't matter, that saids it all. The Torah IS the basis for Zionism. Without the Torah, you have no homeland, and you have no one to hate. But the Torah is not a choose your own adventure book. You can't pick your way around it. To advocate any other action is hypocritical. That just shows how desparate you are to further your racism and hate of Muslims. And the do's and don't's of life are pretty clear in the 10 commandments. And hate, murder, and everything else that you have been advocating of Muslims isn't allowed in the Torah, Period. And call me every name you like, I am at peace with myself. I know that I am to love my fellow man, no matter what. You obviously have emense amounts of hate and racism ingraned into your soul. I have watched you advocate everything upto the murder of your fellow man. The saddest part of this is that you claim to be in a position of power of somekind, so you also could have the power to persecute innocent people simply for their race, and seem to take a perverse joy in doing so. Once again, you misunderstood what I said. NOBODY in the worls would not kill in a "kill or be killed" situation. You can be as much of a pacifist as you want to be, but, if your life is on the line, if it's me or you, I choose ME. Is that too hard to understand? Israel is surrounded by A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Continuation...Israel is surrounded by Arab countries who want nothing more than the total destruction of Israel and the Jewish people. As such, Israel exists in a self-defense mode 24/7! Thus, Israel is in a "kill or be killed" mode, and is not about to roll over and die. (As much as you, Apu, etc, would like to see that happen!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I've stayed out of this one, but not anymore. I4E, you were ok until you had to go and make that last statement. You remind me of a business partner I had a few years back. You can always tell everyone how freakin' educated you are, but if you have to resort to that in a forum such as this, you're actually nobody. You don't know a thing about me, and I guarantee you that I'm going to be an uneducated, Jew hating bastard for saying anything against you. I will only say that I am at least as educated (from a college standpoint) as you. You don't need to know anymore. A person's education can do one of two things for them. It can open their eyes to see that not everything is black and white, and to dig a little deeper and not accept "truths" that are stated. Or, it can harden someone like yourself to become a fool and relying on your "education" to not seek out what is reality - in other words, you rely too much on your "law school education" and become lazy. If I had to pick one, I'd pick the second choice about you. Why? Because every time someone has asked you to back yourself up with facts, you spew the same BS. You're lazy, you really don't want to really work to help change our minds on this issue. As for my stance - (only the surface), the "Palis" are indeed led by (at best) a hypocrite who led (and continue to lead) them to a path of destruction. Isreal, and their people, as God's chosen ones are probably more right then wrong in this. But again, they are led by MAN, and MAN is infallible - not 99.9% of the time, 100% of the time. Period. Take the frickin' blinders off, man, and buy yourself a clue. The first step to being as smart as you think you are is to admit that there is ALWAYS (at least) two sides to every story. And if you want to redeem yourself, go back and REALLY answer the questions that have been asked of you in these (now 42) pages. Then maybe you'll have some validity and prove your "law school education". I "resorted" to telling you about my educational background because other posters have repeatedly called me "f***ed in the head" and other similar things. I have forgotten more that most of the posters here will ever, or have ever known! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Once again, you misunderstood what I said. NOBODY in the worls would not kill in a "kill or be killed" situation. You can be as much of a pacifist as you want to be, but, if your life is on the line, if it's me or you, I choose ME. Is that too hard to understand? Israel is surrounded by A I understand exactly what you are saying. Your hypocracy has been chrystal clear. You are only taking out the parts of the Torah that advocate your position, and ignoring the others. There is no justification for murder. There is no self-defense clause in the 10 commandments. Despite the ways you want to bastardize your own holy text, what you say is not right. To rationalize it any other way is to highjack the Torah for your own beliefs and purposes. God is the only person who can sit in judgement of another man. You cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 And call me every name you like, I am at peace with myself. I know that I am to love my fellow man, no matter what. Well, Duh. You do blow men for a living after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I understand exactly what you are saying. Your hypocracy has been chrystal clear. You are only taking out the parts of the Torah that advocate your position, and ignoring the others. There is no justification for murder. There is no self-defense clause in the 10 commandments. Despite the ways you want to bastardize your own holy text, what you say is not right. To rationalize it any other way is to highjack the Torah for your own beliefs and purposes. God is the only person who can sit in judgement of another man. You cannot. I don't think the Torah says, "lay down and die, when threatened."!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I understand exactly what you are saying. Your hypocracy has been chrystal clear. You are only taking out the parts of the Torah that advocate your position, and ignoring the others. There is no justification for murder. There is no self-defense clause in the 10 commandments. Despite the ways you want to bastardize your own holy text, what you say is not right. To rationalize it any other way is to highjack the Torah for your own beliefs and purposes. God is the only person who can sit in judgement of another man. You cannot. Killing in self defense is NOT murder!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 The above posters (yourself included) started with casting dispersions at my job! Sorry, but you are incorrect, and a liar. I never said anything about your job. Did that education get you a job making enough to pay attention..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Sorry, but you are incorrect, and a liar. I never said anything about your job. Did that education get you a job making enough to pay attention..? Sorry...probably someone else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Killing is self-defense is ALWAYS an acceptable response, especially when your existance is threatened, no matter what the Torah says! I'm sure there is a 'turn the other cheek' clause somewhere in the Torah too. Otherwise it's time to trade it in for a new rule book. My assumption, however, is simply the refusal to heed the hard parts. Immanual Kant ('a real pissant who was very rarely stable...') would certainly argue with your statement that killing is always an appropriate response to killing. I'm pretty sure God's not a big fan either. The whole problem with the 'eye-for-an-eye' approach to justice is that after just two iterations, BOTH SIDES are, by definition, blinded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I'm sure there is a 'turn the other cheek' clause somewhere in the Torah too. Otherwise it's time to trade it in for a new rule book. My assumption, however, is simply the refusal to heed the hard parts. Immanual Kant ('a real pissant who was very rarely stable...') would certainly argue with your statement that killing is always an appropriate response to killing. I'm pretty sure God's not a big fan either. The whole problem with the 'eye-for-an-eye' approach to justice is that after just two iterations, BOTH SIDES are, by definition, blinded. Unfortunately, if Israel "turns the other cheek", it's going to be destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Killing in self defense is NOT murder!!!! Have you actually ever read a Torah or bible? You seem to know which parts support your agenda and nothing more. The bible saids "Thou shalt not Kill in Exodus". Nothing else, no exceptions. Is it that hard to understand? It doesn't say if you really, really, hate someone, then it is ok to kill. It doesn't say if someone threatens to kill you, then it is ok to kill. It doesn't say if you feel like someone might kill you, then it is ok to kill. It doesn't say if someone holds a gun to your head, then it is ok to kill. You do your whole movement disjustice when you ignore parts of the very same book you use to advocate your cause. It just goes to show while you might very well be a Zionist, you are no Jew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Unfortunately, if Israel "turns the other cheek", it's going to be destroyed. If that is the case, then it is God's will that it be destoyed. Men who kill in God's name will not see the gates of heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Continuation...Israel is surrounded by Arab countries who want nothing more than the total destruction of Israel and the Jewish people. As such, Israel exists in a self-defense mode 24/7! Thus, Israel is in a "kill or be killed" mode, and is not about to roll over and die. (As much as you, Apu, etc, would like to see that happen!) I'm still waiting for that source that shows that Al Aqsa's is in cahoots with Arafat. And hey, if you're so college educated, wouldn't you have taken a basic class is speech communications in which you would learn the basis of debate that would show that just randomly throwing out the labels "Jew hater", "Anti-Semite", "terrorist whore" etc. don't strengthen your case. I have never said that Israel should "roll over and die". I have just shown that they have a part in causing the terrorism that they are facing and need to re-evaluate their policies because they are failing horribly. But please, keep asserting the false premise, it just makes my job of convincing people about the pitfalls of Zionism that much easier. And FlaSoxx, your Monty Python quote...NICE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I'm still waiting for that source that shows that Al Aqsa's is in cahoots with Arafat. And hey, if you're so college educated, wouldn't you have taken a basic class is speech communications in which you would learn the basis of debate that would show that just randomly throwing out the labels "Jew hater", "Anti-Semite", "terrorist whore" etc. don't strengthen your case. I have never said that Israel should "roll over and die". I have just shown that they have a part in causing the terrorism that they are facing and need to re-evaluate their policies because they are failing horribly. But please, keep asserting the false premise, it just makes my job of convincing people about the pitfalls of Zionism that much easier. And FlaSoxx, your Monty Python quote...NICE! How is Israel responsible for the terrorism it faces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Have you actually ever read a Torah or bible? You seem to know which parts support your agenda and nothing more. The bible saids "Thou shalt not Kill in Exodus". Nothing else, no exceptions. Is it that hard to understand? It doesn't say if you really, really, hate someone, then it is ok to kill. It doesn't say if someone threatens to kill you, then it is ok to kill. It doesn't say if you feel like someone might kill you, then it is ok to kill. It doesn't say if someone holds a gun to your head, then it is ok to kill. You do your whole movement disjustice when you ignore parts of the very same book you use to advocate your cause. It just goes to show while you might very well be a Zionist, you are no Jew. If I came to your house (trailer) to do you and your family harm, and I was armed, ready, willing and able to kill you, would you just accept your fate? Or, would you try to kill me first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 If I came to your house (trailer) to do you and your family harm, and I was armed, ready, willing and able to kill you, would you just accept your fate? Or, would you try to kill me first? Is it okay to kill in war? When someone is acquitted of murder by reason of selfdefense, is that wrong? How stupid are you??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 If I came to your house (trailer) to do you and your family harm, and I was armed, ready, willing and able to kill you, would you just accept your fate? Or, would you try to kill me first? I would not try to kill you. God does not allow me(or anyone else) to take another man's life into judgement. Don't take my word for it, read your Torah. Confess your sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I would not try to kill you. God does not allow me(or anyone else) to take another man's life into judgement. Don't take my word for it, read your Torah. Confess your sins. If you would not try to kill a person who's intent was to kill you and your family, you are even dumber (and weaker) than I ever thought you could be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Is it okay to kill in war? When someone is acquitted of murder by reason of selfdefense, is that wrong? How stupid are you??? Call me what you like. Let that anger continue to flow. Try to explain yourself to God at your judgement and see what he saids. This is your holy text. Explain to me how you can use it to support your Zionism, but nothing else it saids? Where does it say it is ok to kill in self-defense? Site it for me. Until then do not use the Torah as a basis for your racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Call me what you like. Let that anger continue to flow. Try to explain yourself to God at your judgement and see what he saids. This is your holy text. Explain to me how you can use it to support your Zionism, but nothing else it saids? Where does it say it is ok to kill in self-defense? Site it for me. Until then do not use the Torah as a basis for your racism. 1) Have you ever heard of someone being acquitted for murder by reason of self defense? It IS in the Constitution! 2) Do you think it's okay to kill in war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 3) Do you believe in the death penalty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 1) Have you ever heard of someone being acquitted for murder by reason of self defense? It IS in the Constitution! 2) Do you think it's okay to kill in war? lol. Go ahead grill me. Are you going to have me deported next? I think I have made my stance pretty clear. I have given all kinds of bible verses that state precisely what I have been saying all along. (ie evidence). Like I said, I want to see you support YOUR beliefs now. Where in the Torah is it written that killing at any time is ok? Prove it to me. Otherwise you are just a another hypocrate who uses whatever means possible to support their racism. You have yet to defend your faith, you have yet to quote your own holy texts, and that to me tells me all I need to know about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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