Guest wsc425 Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Billy Koch Trade-Positive David Wells Trade-Negative Julio Ramirez Trade-Neutral Amaury Garcia-Negative Frank Thomas Signing-Positive Todd Ritchie Trade-Negative Willie Harris Trade-Neutral Royce Clayton Trade-Neutral Kenny Lofton Trade-Neutral Bartolo Colon Trade-Positive Sandy Alomar, Jr. Trade-Neutral D'Angelo Jimenez Trade-Positive Herbert Perry Trade-Negative Bobby Howry Trade-Negative James Baldwin Trade-Neutral Ray Durham Trade-Neutral Chad Bradford Trade-Positive Let's see thats 4 Positive, 3 Negative, and 6 Neutral trades...Kenny Williams wanted level is down from 6 stars to 2 stars, lol (Vice City rating scale.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Billy Koch Trade-Positive David Wells Trade-Negative Julio Ramirez Trade-Neutral Amaury Garcia-Negative Frank Thomas Signing-Positive Todd Ritchie Trade-Negative Willie Harris Trade-Neutral Royce Clayton Trade-Neutral Kenny Lofton Trade-Neutral Bartolo Colon Trade-Positive Sandy Alomar, Jr. Trade-Neutral D'Angelo Jimenez Trade-Positive Herbert Perry Trade-Negative Bobby Howry Trade-Negative James Baldwin Trade-Neutral Ray Durham Trade-Neutral Chad Bradford Trade-Positive Let's see thats 4 Positive, 3 Negative, and 6 Neutral trades...Kenny Williams wanted level is down from 6 stars to 2 stars, lol (Vice City rating scale.) i am sure questioning some of your neutral trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wsc425 Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Good. Let's hear your arguements, it will make good discussion, something I haven't had in my last few posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Ray Durham wasn't neutral and I know all the reasons why he had to do it but it turned out that the draft pick was way better option. Koch is pretty neutral so far. Bradford trade can't be called positive based on the last 2 years. Lofton positive, he sucks, something is better than not let alone Diaz. Royce Clayton not f***ing neutral. ECT. ECT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Williams didn't sign Thomas....Reinsdorf did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Billy Koch Trade-Positive David Wells Trade-Negative Julio Ramirez Trade-Neutral Amaury Garcia-Negative Frank Thomas Signing-Positive Todd Ritchie Trade-Negative Willie Harris Trade-Neutral Royce Clayton Trade-Neutral Kenny Lofton Trade-Neutral Bartolo Colon Trade-Positive Sandy Alomar, Jr. Trade-Neutral D'Angelo Jimenez Trade-Positive Herbert Perry Trade-Negative Bobby Howry Trade-Negative James Baldwin Trade-Neutral Ray Durham Trade-Neutral Chad Bradford Trade-Positive Let's see thats 4 Positive, 3 Negative, and 6 Neutral trades...Kenny Williams wanted level is down from 6 stars to 2 stars, lol (Vice City rating scale.) signing frank thomas???...KW gets no credit for that...KW was in the dominican the whole last week of the thomas situation...word has it JR sent him there and then the deal was hammered out between JR and thomas' agent...with frank himself sitting in on a lot of the conversations...KW had to be sent out of the country for that deal to be consumated...if KW had his way thomas , like the others who have crossed him or he percieved that they did, lowe , barcelo , parque , durham , badwin liefer ect ect ect..have all been traded... koch - positive??...how..he hasnt thrown a pitch yet...what happens if koch has moderate success while foulke reverts back to his '01 self and valentin pitches well in middle relief (an area the sox a very thin)??..is it still a positive??? clayton...nuetral??...cmon..kw traded for him against the advice of another GM because of clayton's history as a s***head in the clubhouse...kw's intent was to move him to another team and in 2 years no one would take the guy and he cost us 9 million dollars...how can that be nuetral??? jiminez - positive??...too early to tell...we gave up a good center field prospect in alex fernandez....fernandez only 21, after being traded to the padres hit 280 in AA ball and 299 in AAA...he is considered a solid glove man with excellent speed (10 for 11 in sb's) and is ticketed as the starting CF in AAA this eyar for the padres...this trade could very well go either way... james baldwin nuetral??...not only was the barry -berry debacle an embarrassment to the franchise the two players we got in return for baldwin , masaoka and majewski are already out of the sox organization never pitching an inning for the sox..how can that be nuetral???..we got nothing in return for the 10th winningest pitcher in sox history for pitchers with over 1000 IP...doesnt that deserve better than nothing??? chad bradford positive???..bradford has developed into the A's set up man...a set up man on a perrenial playoff team....olivo hasnt proved a damn thing yet in the major...yet this is a positive for us???...the expectations for olivo are so high he will never live up to them...olivo has all of 4 hits in the majors and some are dusting off a bust in cooperstown for him durham nuetral???...he got a loser prospect that no other team wanted that in 5 years of pro ball or whatever still hasnt learned a change up..this guy wwill never be more than a cup of coffee...durham was a 2 time all star 2nd baseman..the best 2nd baseman the sox have had since nellie fox (cwsox..yes that includes bobby knoop:)) other negatives signing carlos lee to amulti year multi million dollar contract...4.2 million this year for a guy thats gone backwards every year..and probably is the worst fundemental ballplayer in the majors...he can hit pretty decent but thats it.. dont forget numerous PR blunders...its up to the fans to show up before i make a move to improve the team.....how can i spend a dollar if JR only gives me 50 cents...ragging on our players in the press...spies in the clubhouse...JR having to call a closed door meeting with the players w/o KW present to discuss KW's treatment of the players and why all the dissension. and the biggest negative of all ...95 wins..83 wins...81 wins.. kenny lofton...you have this a nuetral but id make it a positve..it only cost a million dollars to sign this guy..and KW actually got a decent prospect for him in diaz...this really shows how bad he blew the durham trade..made just a few days before this deal...durham is a much better ballplayer then lofton at this point in their careers.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 something I haven't had in my last few posts. why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkDJ Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 The David Wells trade should be considered neutral. Neither the Sox nor Blue Jays have any remains of the trade. Neither team gained anything in the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempers Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 something I haven't had in my last few posts. why? I can only guess because that was one of the dumbest posts ever. Care to explain just about all of those because if you think half of those you put neutral too are actually neutral than you are a moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 something I haven't had in my last few posts. why? I can only guess because that was one of the dumbest posts ever. Care to explain just about all of those because if you think half of those you put neutral too are actually neutral than you are a moron. Im gonna have to agree that this was a dupid (dumb+stupid) post. I think basing any of the guys we have acquired this offseason as a positive or negative is crazy. BTW.......what the f*** is an agent insider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 The David Wells trade should be considered neutral. Neither the Sox nor Blue Jays have any remains of the trade. Neither team gained anything in the trade. Wells helped Buehrle quite a bit in his development...I'm not sure Buehrle would be half the pitcher that he is without Wells. Not only that, but Wells won 5 games for us....I'd say we got the better end of that deal statistically, but came out on the bad end of it in the media....Shouldergate and what not and I believe Brian Simmons was sent back. We then picked up Simmons and then cut him in late ST, this past year. BTW, where the hell is Brian Simmons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 something I haven't had in my last few posts. why? I can only guess because that was one of the dumbest posts ever. Care to explain just about all of those because if you think half of those you put neutral too are actually neutral than you are a moron. this is not in ref to kemper or anyone but a statement. people really need to get a sense of humor. cmon, my rep i hope is one not to start trouble but to have humor. ok, my sense of humor is quirky and sometime my meaning is lost and for that, i say oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Billy Koch Trade-Positive David Wells Trade-Negative Julio Ramirez Trade-Neutral Amaury Garcia-Negative Frank Thomas Signing-Positive Todd Ritchie Trade-Negative Willie Harris Trade-Neutral Royce Clayton Trade-Neutral Kenny Lofton Trade-Neutral Bartolo Colon Trade-Positive Sandy Alomar, Jr. Trade-Neutral D'Angelo Jimenez Trade-Positive Herbert Perry Trade-Negative Bobby Howry Trade-Negative James Baldwin Trade-Neutral Ray Durham Trade-Neutral Chad Bradford Trade-Positive Let's see thats 4 Positive, 3 Negative, and 6 Neutral trades...Kenny Williams wanted level is down from 6 stars to 2 stars, lol (Vice City rating scale.) btw i really haven't had total access to the puter all day, but i will respond to you in more of a complete detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Billy Koch Trade-Positive David Wells Trade-Negative Julio Ramirez Trade-Neutral Amaury Garcia-Negative Frank Thomas Signing-Positive Todd Ritchie Trade-Negative Willie Harris Trade-Neutral Royce Clayton Trade-Neutral Kenny Lofton Trade-Neutral Bartolo Colon Trade-Positive Sandy Alomar, Jr. Trade-Neutral D'Angelo Jimenez Trade-Positive Herbert Perry Trade-Negative Bobby Howry Trade-Negative James Baldwin Trade-Neutral Ray Durham Trade-Neutral Chad Bradford Trade-Positive Let's see thats 4 Positive, 3 Negative, and 6 Neutral trades...Kenny Williams wanted level is down from 6 stars to 2 stars, lol (Vice City rating scale.) Well wsc I agree with you except for 3 trades. The Amaury Garcia trade has meant nothing. Could you explain why you think its negative? As far as I know not one of the players traded has made the bigs. Id call that one neutral. The Clayton trade was definitely a negative. His poor play and bad attitude has screwed us over the past two years. Im sure most people will agree with that. You may say we gave up nothing but still, Clayton hurt this team. Then the Durham trade. Maybe its just that I loved Ray but either way I hated this trade and I still hate it. We lost him for nothing. The As also lost him for nothing so maybe its not as bad as Im saying but I woulda loved to see Ray stay. Maybe Im changing my mind, that could remain a neutral... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wsc425 Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Billy Koch Trade-Positive David Wells Trade-Negative Julio Ramirez Trade-Neutral Amaury Garcia-Negative Frank Thomas Signing-Positive Todd Ritchie Trade-Negative Willie Harris Trade-Neutral Royce Clayton Trade-Neutral Kenny Lofton Trade-Neutral Bartolo Colon Trade-Positive Sandy Alomar, Jr. Trade-Neutral D'Angelo Jimenez Trade-Positive Herbert Perry Trade-Negative Bobby Howry Trade-Negative James Baldwin Trade-Neutral Ray Durham Trade-Neutral Chad Bradford Trade-Positive Let's see thats 4 Positive, 3 Negative, and 6 Neutral trades...Kenny Williams wanted level is down from 6 stars to 2 stars, lol (Vice City rating scale.) Billy Koch, it seems good...yes not a pitch yet, but like Wills says, Foulke only throws two pitches...on my OPINION that is a positive David Wells Trade-My mistake, neutral, I typed this up fast... Julio Ramirez and Amaury Garcia-Neither of the guys we got or the guys we traded are in the organization for both teams Frank Thomas signing-well it is positive because the guy COMING back, but yes, I thought KW made this deal...not JR...sorry on that one Todd Ritchie-Negative-no question here Willie Harris Trade-Neutral, nothing has been shown yet and the preacher a.k.a. singleton is out of baltimore Royce Clayton-I only said neutral because nothing was shown for either team, change to negative.. Kenny Lofton-Positive no doubt Bartolo Colon-get the picture, everyone Sandy Alomar-Neutral-we still got him back D'Angelo Jimenez-Positive-I talk to scouts from the Sun-Times, they like this guy, I like this guy, yet not alot has been proven. Herbert Perry-Negative-Milk Man is gone...bad trade...bad trade. Ray Durham-He was leaving anyway, Cheapster Williams wouldn't have signed him...I can't believe the trade happened either, but at least the sox got something in return... Chad Bradford-We got Olivo, and we have Gary Glover in the Bullpen, so thats a positive in MY OPINION. Murcielogo-Thats just my writing name...I just chose it, ok? I hope this helps guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Billy Koch Trade-Positive David Wells Trade-Negative Julio Ramirez Trade-Neutral Amaury Garcia-Negative Frank Thomas Signing-Positive Todd Ritchie Trade-Negative Willie Harris Trade-Neutral Royce Clayton Trade-Neutral Kenny Lofton Trade-Neutral Bartolo Colon Trade-Positive Sandy Alomar, Jr. Trade-Neutral D'Angelo Jimenez Trade-Positive Herbert Perry Trade-Negative Bobby Howry Trade-Negative James Baldwin Trade-Neutral Ray Durham Trade-Neutral Chad Bradford Trade-Positive Let's see thats 4 Positive, 3 Negative, and 6 Neutral trades...Kenny Williams wanted level is down from 6 stars to 2 stars, lol (Vice City rating scale.) Billy Koch, it seems good...yes not a pitch yet, but like Wills says, Foulke only throws two pitches...on my OPINION that is a positive David Wells Trade-My mistake, neutral, I typed this up fast... Julio Ramirez and Amaury Garcia-Neither of the guys we got or the guys we traded are in the organization for both teams Frank Thomas signing-well it is positive because the guy COMING back, but yes, I thought KW made this deal...not JR...sorry on that one Todd Ritchie-Negative-no question here Willie Harris Trade-Neutral, nothing has been shown yet and the preacher a.k.a. singleton is out of baltimore Royce Clayton-I only said neutral because nothing was shown for either team, change to negative.. Kenny Lofton-Positive no doubt Bartolo Colon-get the picture, everyone Sandy Alomar-Neutral-we still got him back D'Angelo Jimenez-Positive-I talk to scouts from the Sun-Times, they like this guy, I like this guy, yet not alot has been proven. Herbert Perry-Negative-Milk Man is gone...bad trade...bad trade. Ray Durham-He was leaving anyway, Cheapster Williams wouldn't have signed him...I can't believe the trade happened either, but at least the sox got something in return... Chad Bradford-We got Olivo, and we have Gary Glover in the Bullpen, so thats a positive in MY OPINION. Murcielogo-Thats just my writing name...I just chose it, ok? I hope this helps guys. David Wells was definitely a negative. He did the same thing Royce did, he ruined this teams chemistry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempers Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Well thats fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 The Royce Clayton trade was horrrrrrrrible, just on his salary alone. What did he get, something like $9-10 Million over two years? $5 Large a year, or something close? Why? Because the Rangers had just signed A-Rod the Great, and they still had Clayton on the roster. So, naturally, they wanted to get rid of him. Who do they turn to---You got it, Fast Kenny. We drastically overpaid, and the only reason I can think of is becasue the Rangers wanted us to. I don't even remember what player we gave up. Who cares? We were a team supposedly strapped for cash, and we volunteered to pay him $5 Large per year for 2 years? Someone please tell me what bargaining strength the Rangers had. This single trade was KW's second worst. I don't have a big problem with Clayton's performance. He lived up to his M.O. Good defense, a few base hits, decent speed. Remember, he did hit about .260 or so. No complaint. But to assume his full salary, just because the Rangers signed A-Rod the Great was ludicrous. It was embarrassing. No other GM would have even considered assuming that salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wsc425 Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Kempers, SHUT UP, LEAVE HIM ALONE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempers Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 lol, I think you are getting more fired up than he is. Whoa there fella! Dems fightin words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 lol, I think you are getting more fired up than he is. Whoa there fella! Dems fightin words. Im not fired up at all. I dont support any of this nonsense fighting. We are all Sox fans! Cant we all just get along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempers Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 I was talking to him...ok enough time wasted here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Billy Koch Trade-Positive>>>>> i am questioning the development of joe valentin and what happen if we have to pay more money to him if he wins the arbritation hearing. however, getting cotts might help sweeten the deal. like i said, valentin is the key in the trade. David Wells Trade-Negative>>>>>>>> i will say that this is neutral to a little positive. david wells, according to mark b help him develop as a pit. Julio Ramirez Trade-Neutra>>>>>>>>.. oh cmon now, he is not even playing ball or with the sox anymore. this is a negative trade if i ever seen. l Amaury Garcia-Negative>>>>.. same as above Frank Thomas Signing-Positive>>>>>>> i agree. IMHO Todd Ritchie Trade-Negative>>>>>>>> i agree, kipper, fogg and lowe would have help last yr. Willie Harris Trade-Neutral>>>>>>>.... i agree Royce Clayton Trade-Neutral>>>>>>>>>> are you kidding me, this is THE WORST TRADE that he has done or maybe the second worst trade. he was not traded for anything but a secondary trade that never materialize and we got stuck with his salary and presence on the team. Kenny Lofton Trade-Neutral>>>>>>>>> the only reason i would say that the signing him as a fa was a positive is b/c he got us diaz, which i will say is a positive. Bartolo Colon Trade-Positive>>>>>>>>>>>>> i agree Sandy Alomar, Jr. Trade-Neutral>>>>>>>. we got him back and got a prospect to boot. however signing him as a fa cost us a 1 rounder and that i can't say that was a positive. this should be a dual statement. D'Angelo Jimenez Trade-Positive>>>>>. until he really does something, i will say neutral leaning towards positive. Herbert Perry Trade-Negative >>>>>>>>. i agree Bobby Howry Trade-Negative >>>>>>>> i agree James Baldwin Trade-Neutral>>>>>>>>. what did we get for him and you call this a neutral???????????? the berry berry trade was beyond a doubt an embarrassment to the org. Ray Durham Trade-Neutral>>>>>>>>>. you really can't be serious here, a carreer minor leaguer for him including the sox picking up 90% of his salary? he wanted to sign for less, yet he was critical of kw. Chad Bradford Trade-Positive, >>>>>>>>>no way, a promise of success is not what to base it on. it needs to be based on the promise of olvio, which i am not a fan of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wsc425 Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Your post makes sense, LDF. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 Your post makes sense, LDF. Thanks no prob peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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