Rex Hudler Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 Rex, The range of a stove or the range of a refrigerator - is it really that big of a difference? I would like to see his range factor compared to other CF's - that would be a telling statistic. I can't find it anywhere. I think Rowand is more than adequate and don't see the lack of range you so describe. He is not a Gold Glover, but I have no problem trotting him out there everyday, if he is producing at the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Rex, The range of a stove or the range of a refrigerator - is it really that big of a difference? I would like to see his range factor compared to other CF's - that would be a telling statistic. I can't find it anywhere. Past, Rowand's range factor was 3.03 in 32 games in 2001(league average 2.67), 3.08 in 72 games in 2002(league average was 2.78), and was 2.54 in 65 games this past year(league average 2.78). However, that last stat is somewhat misleading. When Rowand had his 3.03 range factor in 2001, he played 237 innings in CF(which would average out to be about 7.3 innings per game. In 2002, he played about 602 innings, which averages out to be about 8.3 innings per game(or about a game in CF for each time he was out there). In both of those years he played nearly an entire game in CF. In 2003, it was quite the contrary. He played about 379 innings in CF, which is about 6 innings a game, meaning he had a lot of late inning replacements, and when that happens, you don't get the numbers you need to have a high range factor. I don't think his accident really caused this decrease in range factor, I just think it was that he didn't get regular playing time. I'm perfectly fine with Rowand in CF. He appears to have quite a bit of range out there. While he may not have Jim Edmonds-like range out there, you must consider that in 2002 Torii Hunter had a 2.70 range factor, and the league average range factor was 2.78. Torii Hunter won a gold glove in 2002. Something tells me that, even when playing regularly, range factor can sometimes be misleading. Did players just try not to hit it to Torii? I think not. Point blank, if he can put up decent batting numbers, he should be in the starting lineup because he's an above-average defensive CFer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggestsoxfansouthofchicago Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 what is range factor? could you please expalin the numbers for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 what is range factor? could you please expalin the numbers for me? Basically, it is a statistic that is used to determine how much range a player has(or how much ground a player can cover....the league average is what it is, and if a player has a range factor of more then the league average, then they are an above-average fielder, and vice versa). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Range Factor is supposed to be a more accurate measurement of fielding. The large debate by sabermatrics (Basically statiticians) is whether or not fielding percentage is truly accurate cause quite often a guy that has great range makes more errors because he gets to more balls, but more importantly he puts himself in position where he has to make a lot of tough plays. For example, the Range Factor shows that Jose is a better shortstop then his fielding percentage would indicate, how much better, I can't say, I'm not really huge on stats. I think you have to look at stats, tools, team needs and of course money. There are flaws to range factor too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 I'm a little late chiming in on the topic, but I have to say that before we all freak out about not having a CF and a 2B, we need to give both A-row and willie a real shot at showing us what they have. Neither of these two have really gotten any chance of playing a real MLB season. Let's wait until at least June to panic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Before we all freak out, lets remember last season we had Jimenez who everyone but me and a few others complained about and Aaron Rowand. So while everyone talks about these holes, lets remember last season the Sox had these same holes. The only difference is this year we are counting on Elo instead of Colon. And the Sox know that Koch had a rough year, so the pen is a little weaker for sure then last seasons, plus they don't have Gordon and White (Whom many expected big things out of, myself included). This year the Sox are going with sleepers: Grilli, Politte, Santiago and then the young guys. Just last season we were all excited because we had a rotation of Colon, Buehrle, Garland, Wright, Rauch (Not many thought Elo would break camp as a starter). On a grander scale...lets just compare this way. Who can you expect to play better: Konerko, Koch, Ordonez, Buehrle, Crede, Olivo, Danny Wright Rowand (compared with the Rowand at the start of last season) Who can you expect to play worse: Elo, Thomas (Although he could turn for the better), Marte (Although he could very easily hold his ground..although he had such an impressive season), Carlos Lee (He could also turn into the better). Who pretty much matched normal production: Harris (Not saying much), Garland (should get better) and pretty much everyone else. Now I'm probably over-estimating and not all those guys would do better, but the Sox didn't exactly have a lot of players coming off career years, minus Esteban Loiaza who the Sox will have a lot of faith in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Before we all freak out, lets remember last season we had Jimenez who everyone but me and a few others complained about and Aaron Rowand. So while everyone talks about these holes, lets remember last season the Sox had these same holes. The only difference is this year we are counting on Elo instead of Colon. And the Sox know that Koch had a rough year, so the pen is a little weaker for sure then last seasons, plus they don't have Gordon and White (Whom many expected big things out of, myself included). This year the Sox are going with sleepers: Grilli, Politte, Santiago and then the young guys. Just last season we were all excited because we had a rotation of Colon, Buehrle, Garland, Wright, Rauch (Not many thought Elo would break camp as a starter). i think all the panic is happening because the sox haven't made a big name signing. Last year Colon's signing really sparked our interest and showed us that the Sox wanted to win. This year, we're all really worried that because the Sox haven't signed anyone big, nothing big is gonna happen, and therefore Sox management isn't trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 i think all the panic is happening because the sox haven't made a big name signing. Last year Colon's signing really sparked our interest and showed us that the Sox wanted to win. This year, we're all really worried that because the Sox haven't signed anyone big, nothing big is gonna happen, and therefore Sox management isn't trying. The Sox definately won't be the favorites, but what exactly has being the favorites done the past few seasons. This team isn't as good as last years at the end of the season. I firmly believe if they kept those chips in place, sans Everett and Alomar, then they would of been the team to beat in the AL central and one of the few teams that has a very legit chance of winning the series. I don't think the Sox can compete for the series, but I do think they will compete for the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 The Sox definately won't be the favorites, but what exactly has being the favorites done the past few seasons. This team isn't as good as last years at the end of the season. I firmly believe if they kept those chips in place, sans Everett and Alomar, then they would of been the team to beat in the AL central and one of the few teams that has a very legit chance of winning the series. I don't think the Sox can compete for the series, but I do think they will compete for the playoffs. It's lucky that we're now in the weakest divison in the MLB. If we were in the AL East with the Yanks, Red Sox, O's and Blue Jays, we'd hav no chance whatsoeva in makin it. I think only 1 team in the AL Central will finish above .500 and they'll win da division. Sox hav an oppurtunity to be that team if they find at least 1 good starter and Loaiza and Buerhle can win AT LEAST 35 games b/w them. Plus Harris and Rowand hav to hav consistent years as well. We need a lot to go our way but it's definitely possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmookie Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 i think that he'll break out this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Am i the only one that is deathly afraid of Loaiza being a fluke? If he falls apart, this team is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Am i the only one that is deathly afraid of Loaiza being a fluke? If he falls apart, this team is done. I'm a bit afraid of that.....I'm sure he'll start out hot, but I just hope he keeps it up past the break. Loaiza started to slip a bit in the final month. I just hope he can have a good season. I'm not expecting the exact same thing out of him. He'll obviously lose a little bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Am i the only one that is deathly afraid of Loaiza being a fluke? If he falls apart, this team is done. I don't see him as being the ace, but a team can win without an ace. I figure him for 13-16 wins..... Buehrle for 15-18..... If the other three can win 10-12 then you will win enough games to be competitive.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 I don't see him as being the ace, but a team can win without an ace. I figure him for 13-16 wins..... Buehrle for 15-18..... If the other three can win 10-12 then you will win enough games to be competitive.... I think the chances are greater that Buerhle rebounds to hav a excellent season than Loaiza repeatin his 2003 form. I think with a new contract and a sense of security, Mark's gonna hav a big year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 I think the chances are greater that Buerhle rebounds to hav a excellent season than Loaiza repeatin his 2003 form. I think with a new contract and a sense of security, Mark's gonna hav a big year. Agreed...Buerhle will be like a Halladay this year.....Cy numbers on a non contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 First of all, if Buehrle has a Cy Young year, we will be contenders. I personally doubt he does. Second of all, people have brought up good points. Jas has basically said that we aren't as bad off as we think we are(which in all reality, we aren't), and soxnbears01 brought up the fact that we should not really panic until June(and that is at the earliest). If we have a decent shot at the division title, who says that KW won't go out and get us another starter or something else we need. KW has proved that he is willing to do it, so him actually going out and getting it done is not out of the question. And at that point, more people become available to us because we don't have to pay as much for them for the rest of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 I don't want to be the favorites to win anything. That way, there is a rallying cry of "no one respects us,""no one expects us to do anything," etc. I am not brimmng with confidence about this roster - as it sits today - but I will let the players on the field do what they're paid to do - play the games. Ozzie is supposedly a master motivator. If that is true, then let's see him motivate this team to overachieve. I would rather have an "okay" roster that overachieves than a "great" roster that underachieves (see the 2003 season). The perfect scenario would be to have a great roster that overachieves (can that be done - I mean, if they're a great roster, did they really overachieve or reach their proper level?). What really pisses me off is that we can never ever see what the 2003 roster would have done with Ozzie at the helm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 I would rather have an "okay" roster that overachieves than a "great" roster that underachieves That would be so Fun. A la 1990. Those type of seasons are fun when you ain't expected to do s*** and you really shut up the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Am i the only one that is deathly afraid of Loaiza being a fluke? If he falls apart, this team is done. it is a team game, we will never totally live or die by one player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Aaron will be good for .275, 15-20 homers and 70-80 rbi's if he gets at least 500 at bats, which hopefully will heappen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 However, that last stat is somewhat misleading. When Rowand had his 3.03 range factor in 2001, he played 237 innings in CF(which would average out to be about 7.3 innings per game. In 2002, he played about 602 innings, which averages out to be about 8.3 innings per game(or about a game in CF for each time he was out there). In both of those years he played nearly an entire game in CF. In 2003, it was quite the contrary. He played about 379 innings in CF, which is about 6 innings a game, meaning he had a lot of late inning replacements, and when that happens, you don't get the numbers you need to have a high range factor. I don't think his accident really caused this decrease in range factor, I just think it was that he didn't get regular playing time. Excellent analysis. Range factor basically compares the outs and assists a player makes per inning to everybody else at that position. A late inning replacement will play behind more closer types who thoretically throw more strike outs and grounders, he just won't get equivelent chances. Thank you for the education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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