letsgoarow Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 what is the dumbest thing KW has ever done? id say giving up Lowe,Wells, and Josh Fogg for the awful wonder Todd Ritchie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSFAN35 Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I really think that was his only awful move. Most other trades looked good, and the players he got in return didn't preform. He did give up way too much for Ritchie, Wells should've been enough on his own. I personally would love to see Wells and/or Fogg in a Sox Uniform still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I guess that's the worst trade and i say he's learned from it a bit. Another Bad thing about kenny is that he tends to overpay on contracts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I guess that's the worst trade and i say he's learned from it a bit. Another Bad thing about kenny is that he tends to overpay on contracts I'd just have to give him the thumbs down on the overpaying. He's done a great job w/ what he's got, but he does tend to overpay for some of these guys. Imagine what he could do if he left a little more money in the Sox's wallet. I liked everything he did in 2003, w/ the exception of the Foulke for Koch deal. However, if Cotts becomes something we may get the better deal in that. We knew we weren't going to afford Foulke after this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 he overpays in trades, too. No reason we had to give Pittsburgh Wells and Fogg and Lowe for Ritchie. Wells and Lowe should have been enough. And those dump deals he made in 2002 have yet to bear any fruit. All we have to show for Durham, S. Alomar, Lofton. Howry and anybody else we dumped are Adkins (very marginal), Pachecho (jury still out), Diaz (ditto), Meaux (longshot), Hak An (longer shot) and Fransico (?????). pretty annoying when you consider the Sox gave up Ring, Rupe, Webster and Bittner in their deadline deals last summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 he overpays in trades, too. No reason we had to give Pittsburgh Wells and Fogg and Lowe for Ritchie. Wells and Lowe should have been enough. And those dump deals he made in 2002 have yet to bear any fruit. All we have to show for Durham, S. Alomar, Lofton. Howry and anybody else we dumped are Adkins (very marginal), Pachecho (jury still out), Diaz (ditto), Meaux (longshot), Hak An (longer shot) and Fransico (?????). pretty annoying when you consider the Sox gave up Ring, Rupe, Webster and Bittner in their deadline deals last summer. Francisco is not with the Sox no more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 WU83, you can say the exact same thing about the players he gave up. Really the only "lock" to make the majors out of those you mentioned is Ring. Hummell also made the majors with the Reds(who was traded for Sullivan). Diaz and Pacheco both look good(and when you consider that Pacheco was obtained from the Rockies and that it really did not hurt us and that he has a shot at doing something in the majors....that's pretty incredible. Kudos to Kenny for getting Pacheco). As far as his worst moves....Sirotka for Wells was terrible. It made KW look like a dirtbag GM, trading an injured pitcher for a guy coming off of a 20-win season....what the hell, you know? And then Wells goes off and rips Thomas for not playing with a minor injury(whil in reality, it was a torn tricep). What people don't remember is that Thomas and Wells did make up and are fine with each other now and he gave Buehrle a wealth of information to become a successful major league pitcher, and what as he done since then but had a 16 win season and pitch very well(he had an incredible 2001 season), damn near had a 20-win 2002 campaign and won quite a few big games last year for us. I hope to hell we get to the playoffs before Mark changes uniforms....I really would love to see what he would do in the playoffs. His worst move by far has been the Wells, Lowe, and Fogg for Ritchie trade. That did nothing but kill us. Todd only went 5-16 with a 6.00 ERA for us, then left the next year to Milwaukee(where I don't believe he even threw a pitch). He damn near became the first 20-game loser, but went on the DL with a shoulder injury. You'd also have to consider Clayton, Koch, and the fact that he damn near got us Erstad(which would have been bad because he would have given up Garland and Singleton along with two prospects) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 WU83, you can say the exact same thing about the players he gave up. Really the only "lock" to make the majors out of those you mentioned is Ring. Hummell also made the majors with the Reds(who was traded for Sullivan). Diaz and Pacheco both look good(and when you consider that Pacheco was obtained from the Rockies and that it really did not hurt us and that he has a shot at doing something in the majors....that's pretty incredible. Kudos to Kenny for getting Pacheco). As far as his worst moves....Sirotka for Wells was terrible. It made KW look like a dirtbag GM, trading an injured pitcher for a guy coming off of a 20-win season....what the hell, you know? And then Wells goes off and rips Thomas for not playing with a minor injury(whil in reality, it was a torn tricep). What people don't remember is that Thomas and Wells did make up and are fine with each other now and he gave Buehrle a wealth of information to become a successful major league pitcher, and what as he done since then but had a 16 win season and pitch very well(he had an incredible 2001 season), damn near had a 20-win 2002 campaign and won quite a few big games last year for us. I hope to hell we get to the playoffs before Mark changes uniforms....I really would love to see what he would do in the playoffs. His worst move by far has been the Wells, Lowe, and Fogg for Ritchie trade. That did nothing but kill us. Todd only went 5-16 with a 6.00 ERA for us, then left the next year to Milwaukee(where I don't believe he even threw a pitch). He damn near became the first 20-game loser, but went on the DL with a shoulder injury. You'd also have to consider Clayton, Koch, and the fact that he damn near got us Erstad(which would have been bad because he would have given up Garland and Singleton along with two prospects) Yeah I totally agree on the Sirotka/Wells deal....I metioned that in the other thread! I was curious is Sirotka employed by any team at the moment or anything? What's come of him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Rector Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I was curious is Sirotka employed by any team at the moment or anything? What's come of him? I believe that he's signed a minor league contract with the Cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 what is the dumbest thing KW has ever done? id say giving up Lowe,Wells, and Josh Fogg for the awful wonder Todd Ritchie OMG!!! That is one of the dumbest moves in Sox history. Sean Lowe alone could have been an awesome starter for us and they gave him away just because the management didnt like him personally. :fyou KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I believe that he's signed a minor league contract with the Cubs. R.I.P. Sirotka..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I personally would love to see Wells and/or Fogg in a Sox Uniform still. I dont know about Fogg but Wells, that fat tub of s***, needs to just go away. He's a worthless, egotistical asswipe who folds when the going gets tough. We can certainly do without him and his back cant support is ever burgeoning weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I believe that he's signed a minor league contract with the Cubs. That was last year. He was supposed to pitch my Mid Season and he never Did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 what is the dumbest thing KW has ever done? id say giving up Lowe,Wells, and Josh Fogg for the awful wonder Todd Ritchie The Ritchie trade, hands down. We didn't scout Ritchie well, and even if he was what KW thought he was, we STILL overpaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I would say it was when he tried to do the Chicken Dance at last years Sox Christmas party, damn that was painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 The Ritchie trade, hands down. totally. Sirotka/Wells was not a bad trade - Wells at least pitched some games for us and some our pitchers said wells taught them a few things. My fav Siro has never pitched again. Clayton for Myette, not that bad we didn't give up much, we all thought we needed a quality shortstop and no one could have known that Royce would have an affair with Frank's ex to destroy clubhouse calm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 no one could have known that Royce would have an affair with Frank's ex to destroy clubhouse calm Really?? He did?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 no one could have known that Royce would have an affair with Frank's ex to destroy clubhouse calm Really?? He did?? News to me too...but Clayton was so damn worthless here......He did not swing the bat very well at all...and he seemed to be a cancer in the clubhouse from what I've seen/read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Kudos to Kenny for getting Pacheco Kudos to KW for being lucky as s***. And kudos to Juan Nieves for helping Pacheco realize his potential and learn the value of working hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Kudos to KW for being lucky as s***. And kudos to Juan Nieves for helping Pacheco realize his potential and learn the value of working hard. Hey, he likes to be lucky like that. Remember Marte? Traded Guerrier(who looked like a pretty good prospect at the time) for Marte, who was going to be placed on waiver, and then Edwin Yan(who at the time was just a throw in). Since that trade, Guerrier has done s*** with the Pirates while Marte has become one of the best, if not the best, left-handed reliever in the game today, and Edwin Yan and since changed his name to Ruddy Yan and has become a guy with a possible but not definite future in the big leagues. I'm trying to recall a small move like that where he made the move to get lucky and it backfired hugely on him. All I can really think of is Royce Clayton. He was lucky, but he was smart enough to actually get something for him and he got a raw talent for him(I believe he was a raw talent anyways). Trading Sandy did not hurt us that season because we then found out that the Paul-Johnson combo sucks ass and we ended up getting Sandy back anyways in the offseason. And I'll give kudos to Juan Nieves for what he's done as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Worst trade: Ritchie and Koch. Clayton. Both trades not only pretty much killed respective seasons (and failure to make playoffs in 2002 resulted in smaller revenue and payroll in 2003 and failure in 2003 in turn diminished....well you get the picture) very early but but also cost us cheap Kip Wells and burned us with untradeable 6.25 Mill in 2004. Best trade: Marte. Self-explanatory. Worst signing: Ramirez, Baines, Konerko (2002) and Valentin (2003). Best signing: Loaiza. Frank Thomas at 5 Mill before 2003. Gordon. Wunsht (2004). Dark horses: Pacheco, Uribe, Olivo, Harris and Grilli. If just two of them can realize their talent in 2004, we're in business. Gary Glover will be a very good reliever once they find him a nice arm slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I have to agree that the Ritchie trade was the worst of KW's deal. As for that comment that Lowe would have been an awesome starter for us, who's staff is he the ace of right now? At the time, I hated to lose Lowe, but he's bounced around since and hasn't really done much. Wells has been the best pitcher in that deal, and he hasn't been all that great. Fogg has also done just so-so. Ritchie was a collosal flop, but it's not like we gave up Lou Brock for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Ritchie was a collosal flop, but it's not like we gave up Lou Brock for him. Yes we only gave up a pitcher who throws mid-to-high 90's heat with a good curve and a solid slider, a pitcher who just entering his prime but can already be a #2 in most rotations......and one who would have cost our cash-strapped team next to nothing in 2002 and 2003, leading to at least 1 ALC pennant. Like you said, nothing major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Yes we only gave up a pitcher who throws mid-to-high 90's heat with a good curve and a solid slider, a pitcher who just entering his prime but can already be a #2 in most rotations......and one who would have cost our cash-strapped team next to nothing in 2002 and 2003, leading to at least 1 ALC pennant. Like you said, nothing major. I don't think Wells would have been a difference maker in 2002. And do you think KW would have pursued Colon so diligently if we had Wells in the staff at that time? That's impossible to say, but if he had Wells probably would have been in THAT deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 . And do you think KW would have pursued Colon so diligently if we had Wells in the staff at that time? Considering how relatively cheap Wells was, why the hell not? We could have done some damage with Loaiza-Wells-Colon-Burhle in the playoffs. And yes ERA drop from 6.60 to 3.60 IS a big deal, especially early on when Lofton (who quits on losing teams and thrives on winning ones) and Durham were on fire and we needed just that little something to go on win streaks. Who knows, if we were only a few games behind Twins at the ASB, we probably don't trade Lofton and Durham and maybe even get get Everett-type impact player instead to battle Twins down the stretch.....instead of packing it in by July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.