Texsox Posted January 7, 2004 Author Share Posted January 7, 2004 Don't kid yourself. The most underrepresented age group is 18-25, and that is because they vote less than anyother age group. If they voted with the percentages that the seniors do, laws would look very different. Still not that different. Until they run businesses which contribute $$, combine to lobby like AARP, be the editors and publishers of mass media outlets, have the networking that the 40 and up enjoy, voting still won't make that much of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Still not that different. Until they run businesses which contribute $$, combine to lobby like AARP, be the editors and publishers of mass media outlets, have the networking that the 40 and up enjoy, voting still won't make that much of a difference. It did in the 60's and 70's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 7, 2004 Author Share Posted January 7, 2004 It did in the 60's and 70's. campaigns have changed too much in the past 30 years. Polling technology, focus groups, etc. have made for a much different political landscape. Plus in the 60s and 70s the youth were able to convince the public some of the changes were a good thing. Demonstartions, sit ins, etc. did more than voting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 campaigns have changed too much in the past 30 years. Polling technology, focus groups, etc. have made for a much different political landscape. Plus in the 60s and 70s the youth were able to convince the public some of the changes were a good thing. Demonstartions, sit ins, etc. did more than voting. So why couldn't they do the samething today? Hell it would probably be easier what with the internet and wireless communications, to organize mass amounts of people and funds, if the youth of this country actually cared about anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I said no, mainly because I don't like to be forced to do something I don't want to do. It takes away my freedom of choice. Also I don't want to put my ass on the line, because I'm a f*** up and would probably die, and since I don't believe there is anything after this life, I want to live my life to the fullest now. Man I have a feeling this thread/poll is gonna turn into a 10 pager pretty soon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 7, 2004 Author Share Posted January 7, 2004 So why couldn't they do the samething today? Hell it would probably be easier what with the internet and wireless communications, to organize mass amounts of people and funds, if the youth of this country actually cared about anything. Now we agree. My comment was voting isn't enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Don't kid yourself. The most underrepresented age group is 18-25, and that is because they vote less than anyother age group. If they voted with the percentages that the seniors do, laws would look very different. That, theoretically, is why I would be in favor of reinstating the draft. I see too much apathy and rhetoric among my age cohorts (18-25). Something like the draft would make us look at our country and see how they view us as nothing more than an expendable resource...If we are the future--then what are we doing in Iraq? What were we doing in Vietnam? That was a wholesale murder of the future. If the draft was reintstated I really feel that we as a generation would never miss an election and the hottest fashion accessory would not be a pair of Docs or Abercrombie but an "I Voted" sticker. And to Fanof14--I know that being poor does not bar all education opportunities--but it does make them more difficult...I guess that after going to Europe and seeing the way socialized countries run their education systems I am sad we can't offer the same educational opportunies to everyone. So, I don't think you should have to risk paying for your education with your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Now we agree. My comment was voting isn't enough. It could be enough. If the pols who screw the youths get voted out of office, it doesn't matter how much money they raise from the old timers (like yourself ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 7, 2004 Author Share Posted January 7, 2004 It could be enough. If the pols who screw the youths get voted out of office, it doesn't matter how much money they raise from the old timers (like yourself ) I just do not think you will see things like younger drinking ages with MADD against it and issues like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 And to Fanof14--I know that being poor does not bar all education opportunities--but it does make them more difficult...I guess that after going to Europe and seeing the way socialized countries run their education systems I am sad we can't offer the same educational opportunies to everyone. So, I don't think you should have to risk paying for your education with your life. My dad is from Ireland and says the same thing about education. I often hear it said that people between the ages of 18-25 don't vote. Granted I am 27 now, but when I was in that age bracket and even the people that I now know that are in that age bracket all vote and never miss an election. Then again, this is one small portion of the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 7, 2004 Author Share Posted January 7, 2004 My dad is from Ireland and says the same thing about education. I often hear it said that people between the ages of 18-25 don't vote. Granted I am 27 now, but when I was in that age bracket and even the people that I now know that are in that age bracket all vote and never miss an election. Then again, this is one small portion of the country. Ireland made some great economic strides the past 15 years. The engine was, in many peoples opinion, the apprenticeship style of education that was in place. I worked on a multi million dollar apprenticeship program for the Rio Grande Valley. It's amazing how cost effective this education model is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniBob72 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 The draft should be reinstated for manpower purposes only. The idea of reinstating the draft for political purposes or to change thinking is a crock of bulls***. And that is the main reason the idea has even been resurrected. Dems hope that reinstituting the draft would make the war more unpopular. Making people consider the fact that they may be called to service before supporting their country's military actions? All you're doing then is trying to ferret out the people with no moral courage or strength. I guarantee you that those people don't give a s*** about much of anything, so it's a waste of time. Following that way of thinking, people should stop wanting firemen to extinguish their burning houses because they themselves don't want to be firemen? Soldiers are people who have volunteered their services to the country to fight its battles and wars and protect it. That is what they were hired for and they do it superbly. There are many jobs that are dangerous, yet they need to be done, and people expect them to be done. I don't want to be a policeman, yet I expect policemen to go after the bad guys. I don't think the fact that many people don't want to be policemen should lessen what is expected from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Ireland made some great economic strides the past 15 years. Yes they have. I came really close to moving to Ireland when I graduated college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Yes they have. I came really close to moving to Ireland when I graduated college. It's very beautiful--and joining the EU has really helped them... But their government was recently voted the 3rd most corrupt in all of Europe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 The idea of reinstating the draft for political purposes or to change thinking is a crock of bulls***. And that is the main reason the idea has even been resurrected. Dems hope that reinstituting the draft would make the war more unpopular. My motives are political in that I want people my age to realize decisions made in Washington affect them. But I also think that re-instating the draft would help us realize the value of life. Again, I don't think it will ever happen--young people don't vote, but mothers do. But if the draft were re-instated it would give us names and faces to put in with the wars. That would make it a lot harder for us to continue on with wars that have sketchy motives--I just think that the draft would make us realize the human cost of war. I'm not necessarily a pacifist, because I think that might come at too great of a price, and I think that if we as a nation were faced with the draft we might re-examine which wars we would enter into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Reinstate the draft. Do the German method. You have a choice. 10 months in the Army, or one year in civil service. If the reality of going to war hit more people, the people would be more hesitant to go to war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 His is that he doesn't think yours shouldn't count.. Steff, When I dealt with the draft it was no esoteric question - I had 22 in the lottery. I had to decide what to do. I had to make a choice I felt was moral and in love for my country. I made it and lived by it. For someone to say that my opinion should not count because I am not affected by it is very wrong. I am perhaps one of the few - ncorg comes to mind - around here who has actually dealt with the draft as a real life issue. I am sure YASNY and others are enough younger than me that they did not have to face the draft. I did. I am incredulous that such an uninformed and selfish statement was made to me. As I said, I have a son who is an active duty Marine. No one here can imagine what it is like when I hear over the radio or tv the announcement... "there were more American casualties in Iraq today..." I have two grandsons. In 9 years the older will be of draft age, if there is a draft. 9 years may seem like a long time to some, but it is not to me. In this question I have a lot at stake. The women posting in this thread are making some very intelligent points. As for the male under 30 crowd, there are only 3 whose political decisions I respect: nuke, with whom i disagree with 99% of the time but I respect him highly because he lives what he believes; apu, who would never ask another to do what he himself will not do; and wino, for the same reason. When Pearl Harbor happened, people signed up, they enlisted. When September 11th happened, people put a flag decal on their car, played flag waving country music, and said, call up the reserves, but don't ask me to be personally involved, I've got my own life to live. As someone from a generation that was drafted and with 58,000 who did not come back, one may surmise what I think. Moral authority does not come from being an armchair patriot who speculates. One has to live it, be it. IlliniBob is right that there are some of us who believe that a draft would be timely because it make issues politically real for a lot more people. Exactly. And I respect IlliniBob because he knows the lay of the land, even though he and I map it differently. And what did I do with the draft? I did not serve, no, because I was a conscientious objector. (And I am very proud of my son, the Marine - he is doing what his conscience says is right.) I did not go to Canada. So whatever I did - there were only a few other options. But I made my decision and lived it. Incredible that my opinion shouldn't count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 No offense Vince.. didn't read all that cause I don't care. As with Israel.. I'm not sharing my opinion on this either. And I didn't say his opinion, or yours, was right or wrong.. I just offered mine in that he was just not saying what your interpreted it to be. Although.. that's just my opinion as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 No. This is a free country and people don't need to be forced into the military. That should be someones right to chose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I would like to add to what has been said here with just a few things here. I know that women are ineligible for the draft, and as a woman, of age for the draft I think that's pretty wrong. I have women friends in the military, and I know they are just as brave as the men. We are strong and I do think, we should be given an opportunity to serve. I agree with Winodj. Either fight or civil service. Or I would offer a third opportunity: why not offer humanitarian aid as a third option? I think let the draftees chose to be able to join the Red Cross or something along those lines. Just food for thought--imagine how differently our country would be run today if G.W had spent time in the Red Cross instead of the Air Reserves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 The last thing I want is the government in control of my life. Some people want to do some things, others want to do something different. The government shouldn't have the power to control our lives. If a draft is needed because of a major major war/threat, then so be it, but to make young people more politically aware, thats freaking BS. I for one don't want to be forced to go to war or have to join the military because some other 20 year old doesn't vote. I have voted in every election and have always kept up with politics, if someone was to tell me that to be politically involved I have to join the army, I'd give them a big :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I feel we should have the choice if we should want to go into the army or not. I don't think we're at the state yet where a draft would be necessary. What are the details on this at the moment? I've heard it discussed a couple times; I'd really like to know where this stands at the moment, being at the prime age of any upcoming draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moochpuppy Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 mooch, welcome to the real world. the decision would be made by our elected representatives and last time I looked, most are not draft age. Same thing with voting age, drinking age, driver's license restrictions, etc. I meant the people here on Soxtalk that voted yes. I also faced the possiblity of a draft back in '91 during the Gulf war when speculation started. Believe me I was nervous as Hell but I would have done what I had to do if my nation called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 There should only be a draft if it is absolutely necessary. If there is a war that can be compared to WW2, then I'll agree with a draft, otherwise hell no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Vince, (I'm gonna pull a steff) had you explained yourself from the beginning, I would have understood you better. however... No one should be willing to send others off to war unless they themself go. I just think that's incorrect. We have a volunteer army and if we need better incentives for volunteers than great let's offer them. While I think a year of civil service would do wonders for my generation, it was our PARENTS generation that brought on this age of CHOICE. There is no choice with a draft, save the possibility of non-combative vs. combative. However, how many of the described do-nothing generation will actually choose the latter? I'm not interested in your respect, I just don't think you can force an individual to serve in the military, unless we face utter crisis, i.e. WWII. It's condescending to hear older generations talk about us as if they don't know where we got our general malaise about life. We've been handed everything and now that you see what a wonderful job you've done with us, you want to fix it by going against what most of your generation faught for....Choice. Truthfully, I think there are many among my generation that would answer the call willingly. Like I said before, I would. I have even told my friends that if they skipped the country in time of desperate need for men to serve, I'd make sure they never tried to come back. so in the end, vince, you are correct. We need a better sense of duty, country, and desire to do what's best for our country....Just don't be surprised with why we're not there right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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