YASNY Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Still stinging over deal that got away, Sox add a reliever By Scot Gregor Daily Herald Sports Writer Posted January 08, 2004 When asked Wednesday night how his holidays were, White Sox general manager Kenny Williams couldn't mask the disappointment. "I've had better,'' he said. Even though Williams is happy with the addition of relief pitcher Cliff Politte, who signed a one-year contract for $800,000 Wednesday with a club option for $1.3 million in 2005, the Sox GM obviously still is stung by a much bigger deal that disintegrated just before Christmas. While Williams never has publicly commented on being a player in one of the biggest proposed trades in major-league history, a source confirmed the White Sox indeed were prepared to send right fielder Magglio Ordonez to Boston in exchange for shortstop Nomar Garciaparra and reliever Scott Williamson. Contrary to numerous published reports, the Sox would have kept Garciaparra rather than move him to the Dodgers in exchange for a package of pitchers. Williams was then prepared to sign a replacement - rumored to be Juan Gonzalez - to fill the void left by Ordonez and also add a quality starting pitcher such as Sidney Ponson. Of course, the blockbuster deal never got off the ground because the Texas Rangers were unable to trade shortstop Alex Rodriguez to the Red Sox for outfielder Manny Ramirez because of financial constraints. "I don't know that there's anything to say about that,'' Williams said. Williams hasn't had much to say since the White Sox blew a 2-game lead late in the 2003 season and finished second to Minnesota in the AL Central. He basically shrugged after watching Bartolo Colon, Carl Everett, Tom Gordon, Roberto Alomar, Tony Graffanino and Scott Sullivan all depart via free agency in early December. Before signing Politte, Williams' only other addition was acquiring utility infielder Juan Uribe in a trade from Colorado the Rockies. No wonder White Sox fans have had trouble maintaining interest this winter. Even though he has made big trades the past three off-seasons and almost pulled off a whopper this year, Williams doesn't sound like any major moves are on the horizon. "I don't think you'll be able to term anything we do from here on as major,'' Williams said. That blanket statement apparently includes Politte, a 29-year-old right-hander who was 1-5 with 12 saves and a 5.66 ERA in 54 relief appearances with the Blue Jays last season. "He's going to help us in the back of the bullpen,'' Williams said. "He's a guy, although he's had a little success, we think he could be one of the better guys in the league with a little more consistency and if he learns to throw downhill a little more.'' While he served as Toronto's closer during the first two months of 2003, Politte is expected to set up games for the White Sox. Coming off his second straight solid season, left-hander Damaso Marte has earned the right to pitch in the ninth inning for the Sox. But Williams still is hoping Billy Koch bounces back after going 5-5 with a 5.77 ERA in '03 while losing nearly 10 mph off his once-vaunted fastball. "He's been doing a lot of exercises designed to strengthen his arm, and the reports have been very good,'' Williams said. "Ideally, you hope he gets back to where he was a year ago.'' Before saving 11 games last season, Koch averaged 36 from 1999-2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 While Williams never has publicly commented on being a player in one of the biggest proposed trades in major-league history, a source confirmed the White Sox indeed were prepared to send right fielder Magglio Ordonez to Boston in exchange for shortstop Nomar Garciaparra and reliever Scott Williamson. Contrary to numerous published reports, the Sox would have kept Garciaparra rather than move him to the Dodgers in exchange for a package of pitchers. Williams was then prepared to sign a replacement - rumored to be Juan Gonzalez - to fill the void left by Ordonez and also add a quality starting pitcher such as Sidney Ponson. If we could do this after trading Maggs for Nomar, why can't we add Ponson now? This doesn't jive, at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 If we could do this after trading Maggs for Nomar, why can't we add Ponson now? This doesn't jive, at all. No it doesn't because u would be addin bout 10 mill in payroll with the additions of Gonzalez and Ponson. My thinkin is that KW would hav guaranteed the Sox would hav won the division by addin these 4 guys and just losin Maggs if JR bumps up a payroll a little. That ain't gonna happen unless there are guys out there who fit our situation, but I've got no idea what Ponson's gonna get for his contract. I've heard from 4 to 7 mill ova 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 From the Sun-Times: The Sox still look to be in the market for a left-handed-hitting backup outfielder, a backup third baseman and another reliever. The remainder of the roster -- a reliever, a starter and another bench player -- is expected to be filled out by players in the system. So much for that quality starter we were going to sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick03 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 this is shaping up to be one of the worst off seasons in a very long time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Looks like our 5th starter's goin to be Cotts, Wright, Diaz or Jon Rauch with Shoe as our 4th. And I'd rather go afta a backup 2nd baseman not a 3rd baseman. Well a whole utility guy who can all positions like Denny Hocking would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 Harris or Uribe will be the backup 2B. Valentin can be a backup 3B but I can see why KW wants one. Hmmmmm. Too bad they didn't listen to us earlier and sign Ventura. There's the LH bat off the bench too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 If we could do this after trading Maggs for Nomar, why can't we add Ponson now? This doesn't jive, at all. Exactly!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 No it doesn't because u would be addin bout 10 mill in payroll with the additions of Gonzalez and Ponson. My thinkin is that KW would hav guaranteed the Sox would hav won the division by addin these 4 guys and just losin Maggs if JR bumps up a payroll a little. That ain't gonna happen unless there are guys out there who fit our situation, but I've got no idea what Ponson's gonna get for his contract. I've heard from 4 to 7 mill ova 3 years. We wouldn't need Juan if Maggs stays... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Bulls***, Bulls***, Bulls***. They can say this all now because they know the deal wont ever happen now, but the Sox MIGHT have kept Nomar, but I defenilty doubt they would have signed BOTH Ponson and Gonzelez to deals right after. There just trying to make things look better because of a s***ty offseason so far. Tony.. FWIW.. I heard all over the place that they were indeed going to keep him. As a matter of fact.. that was one of the reasons Sidney even listened to the initial offer they made him - which WAS bulls***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 this is shaping up to be one of the worst off seasons in a very long time Its about this time that someone says something along the lines of "There is still alot of time left until spring training," "Marlins didn't have their lineup set until the last minute," or my favorite "KW always makes a big trade before Soxfest." Lets clear those worn out beliefs and concentrate on reality. Most likely we're sticking with what we got, and with the risk of getting short-changed on a trade KW made a choice not to gut the team just to clear payroll. We all know we're in the Central and that the team we have now can still make a valiant run at the division title. If Kw does approve a trade involving Maggs or Konerko I can only hope we get equal talent in return. On the other hand, if nothing happens and Sox have to rely on young players to have a break out year then I guess we'll all have to DIG IT. Atleast next years off season will be interesting. In 05 there will be a decent amount of money freed up to pursue a team full of "grinders". Orlando Cabrera, for instance, would be a free agent and I'm sure the Sox would love him at SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 We wouldn't need Juan if Maggs stays... No we wouldn't, and I didn't like the idea of Juan signin much anyway. He's too injury prone, and I'd rather a guy who could get on base with a lil bit of speed like a Reggie Sanders. And Ponson's out there still waitin for the rite offa to come. I'm not too sure it's gonna come from Baltimore since they r most likely signin Vlad and Palmeiro. I always thought San Diego could be an option for him, especially now afta they traded Jarvis although they signed Boomer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 And Ponson's out there still waitin for the rite offa to come. I'm not too sure it's gonna come from Baltimore since they r most likely signin Vlad and Palmeiro. I always thought San Diego could be an option for him, especially now afta they traded Jarvis although they signed Boomer. It's not about the $$ to stay in Baltimore... He's got a life there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 It's not about the $$ to stay in Baltimore... He's got a life there. Good point I mean just look at Robbie Alomar. But I dunno whether or not the O's r now ova budget, but if they trade sum1 then yeah they should prob still get Ponson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Good point I mean just look at Robbie Alomar. But I dunno whether or not the O's r now ova budget, but if they trade sum1 then yeah they should prob still get Ponson. What am I supposed to be looking at in regards to Robbie..? Angelos has a TON of cash to spend.. and will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 What am I supposed to be looking at in regards to Robbie..? Angelos has a TON of cash to spend.. and will. Robbie wanted to go to a place where he could win hence he chose Arizona even though otha teams were offerin him far more. Ponson could get more $$$ from another team but he's likely to go back to Baltimore because he's been there for bout 5 or 6 years I think and he's happy there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Robbie wanted to go to a place where he could win hence he chose Arizona even though otha teams were offerin him far more. Ponson could get more $$$ from another team but he's likely to go back to Baltimore because he's been there for bout 5 or 6 years I think and he's happy there. Oh.. OK. Gotcha. Sidney going back to Baltimore would be a very good move. With the additions they've made and Angelos making an obvious commitment to spend $$.. they could be a force to contend with this year. Personally.. I hope he stays there. They have awesome friends & family tickets And one more thing... I honestly think Robbie wanted to stay here. He wanted to play with Sandy.. and there were rumors swirling about Sr coming over from the Cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Oh.. OK. Gotcha. Sidney going back to Baltimore would be a very good move. With the additions they've made and Angelos making an obvious commitment to spend $$.. they could be a force to contend with this year. Personally.. I hope he stays there. They have awesome friends & family tickets I actually hope he does too. He really seemed to be turnin it around at the start of the year, and I'd hate to see him sign a big fat contract and then not produce his first half of last season numbers. It also shows you that now money may not be the #1 factor for a player and how important family can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Harris or Uribe will be the backup 2B. Valentin can be a backup 3B but I can see why KW wants one. Hmmmmm. Too bad they didn't listen to us earlier and sign Ventura. There's the LH bat off the bench too. I think it's good that we have some versatility with our starters. Valentin is the SS and I am happy with Jose, but Jose can play 3B in a pinch also to relieve Crede. I would sure be happy if the "Milkman" was back with us helping at 3B and 1B. The article posted gave me some info that I hadn't seen before. I wondered what Koch was doing this off season and it appears that the news is encouraging. I also liked his take on Politte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Contrary to numerous published reports, the Sox would have kept Garciaparra rather than move him to the Dodgers in exchange for a package of pitchers. Williams was then prepared to sign a replacement - rumored to be Juan Gonzalez - to fill the void left by Ordonez and also add a quality starting pitcher such as Sidney Ponson. Its really hard to believe that the Sox would of done that. If that was there plan then s***, I think we'd all be singing different tunes today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 No it doesn't because u would be addin bout 10 mill in payroll with the additions of Gonzalez and Ponson. My thinkin is that KW would hav guaranteed the Sox would hav won the division by addin these 4 guys and just losin Maggs if JR bumps up a payroll a little. That ain't gonna happen unless there are guys out there who fit our situation, but I've got no idea what Ponson's gonna get for his contract. I've heard from 4 to 7 mill ova 3 years. What if the Red Sox were going to give us cash with the deal? They needed Ordonez and had to dump Nomar. Maggs/A-Rod =$35M Nomar/Willamson/Ramirez=$33M KW held the chips in this deal and may ahve been getting a good deal here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 What are we going to do about Mags now? Are we really just going to hold on to him all season and just accept the draft pick we get from him signing to another team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 What are we going to do about Mags now? Are we really just going to hold on to him all season and just accept the draft pick we get from him signing to another team? 50 Bucks says we offer offer arbitration, he accepts and we have him at $15M for 2005. Than again JR might decline arbitration and we don't get s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I think, and this is my humble opinion, Nomar was one of those guys that JR would be ready to pay for and not have it count against the reqd salary Just like Colon..... There are some people that KW can convince JR we need and JR will agree to it, and would not mind payroll increase for it, while others he would mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 My guess is that ARod and the MLBPA were a few million bucks away from us having potentially Williamson, Ponson, Garciaparra, and Gonzalez in our lineup, and only had to have traded Ordonez, and personally, I would not have minded trading Konerko if it would help get the numbers lined up right, and we could have traded him for peanuts too and let the media and everyone else criticize KW for making such a "terrible" move. And obviously we would have had to have traded Jose along with Konerko and Maggs. Maggs-Konerko-Jose = $26.5 mill(Maggs at $14 mill, Konerko at $7.5 mill, Jose at $5 mill) Garciaparra-Williamson-Gonzalez-Ponson = approx. $25.5 mill(the numbers I used are Garciaparra at $11.5 mill, Williamson at $3 mill, Gonzalez at $5 mill, and Ponson in the first year of a 3-year, $24 mill deal where he makes $6 mill the first year). So as you can see, the numbers work out. The problem is, KW put all his eggs in one basket, and unlike previous years, all his eggs broke. We went from one of the best teams in the AL to maybe the 3rd best team in quite possibly the weakest division in the majors. I like Kenny's ideas, and I've liked his trades and he is getting better overall as a GM. But if continually does this and does not make more plans than he does(I know in some article he said he has Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C, where A was keeping Colon, B was getting Garciaparra, and I assume C is getting s***). I find it hard to accept that our biggest moves this offseason are Juan Uribe and Cliff Politte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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