Maybe it's a good sign

[bigred3535]

It's probably a good sign for the Sox that the O's are close to signing Palmeiro and Guerrero. If both these guys are signed (or even one), that probably means that the O's have spent all the money they've allotted for free agents (or at least I would hope, considering they've spent 8 million on Tejada and 5 million on Lopez. Maybe they won't have any money left for Ponson, which would make the Sox the top suitor for his services. In addition, if the Halos don't sign Palmeiro they will probably be very interested in Konerko, which could net the Sox Washburn, as another thread is discussing. Theoretically the Sox could get both these guys for about the same price as Konerko, and would end up with possibly the best rotation in the AL. I know I'm being overly optimistic and very hasty, but if KW could pull that off I think I would literally piss my pants in joy. I can guarantee I wouldn't complain about him for a long, long, long, long while.

[Mr. Showtime]

Listen Peter Angelos has a ton of money to spend, he'll spend whatever it takes to get Ponson back. He can hear the turnstiles cranking now at Camden.

[YASNY]

The Sox are $4million over budget, by all accounts. So, if they trade Konerko and his $8million salary for Washburn and his $4million salary, that puts them back on budget. Hence, no money available for Ponson.

[Spiff]

The AL east is going to be so dominant. Hell the Devil Rays will even be competitive.

 

And look at that AL Central, doesn't it make you proud that it will probably be the worst division in baseball again.

[YASNY]

The AL east is going to be so dominant.  Hell the Devil Rays will even be competitive. 

 

And look at that AL Central, doesn't it make you proud that it will probably be the worst division in baseball again.

Proud? No.

 

Hopeful? Yes.

[DBAHO]

Proud? No.

 

Hopeful? Yes.

That's the only thing goin for us rite now. If we were in the AL East instead of Tampa Bay, I'd say we'd finish last. But in this division, 4 teams in my opinion can win it not including Detroit.

[Spiff]

The sad thing is the Sox can win the division, but seemingly refuse to try. This is a team that won 86 games last year against a slightly weaker AL Central than this coming year. Now, subtract Gordon, Sullivan, Colon, Daubach, Graffy, Everett and Alomar and add Juan Uribe and Cliff Politte. Guh.

 

Thankfully it is only January, which means opening day is still about three months away because right now this team is scary. A rotation of Buehrle, Loaiza, Garland and...kids? Willie Harris at second base, are you kidding me? Not to mention the bullpen, beyond Marte and Wunsch, is anyone's guess.

 

Maybe management is figuring since the team has underachieved with veterans for three years, if they play a bunch of kids it will overachieve.

[YASNY]

The sad thing is the Sox can win the division, but seemingly refuse to try.  This is a team that won 86 games last year against a slightly weaker AL Central than this coming year.  Now, subtract Gordon, Sullivan, Colon, Daubach, Graffy, Everett and Alomar and add Juan Uribe and Cliff Politte.  Guh.

 

Thankfully it is only January, which means opening day is still about three months away because right now this team is scary.  A rotation of Buehrle, Loaiza, Garland and...kids?  Willie Harris at second base, are you kidding me? Not to mention the bullpen, beyond Marte and Wunsch, is anyone's guess.

 

Maybe management is figuring since the team has underachieved with veterans for three years, if they play a bunch of kids it will overachieve.

Like in 2000? Like the 2003 Florida Marlins? Hmmmm ... not a bad idea.

[Spiff]

Like in 2000? Like the 2003 Florida Marlins? Hmmmm ... not a bad idea.

Yes well last off-season the Marlins at least signed somebody, Pudge, and traded for a centerfielder, Pierre. They also traded for Mark Redman, which set them up with a rotation of Burnett, Beckett, Penny, Redman, and Pavano. They went into the season with veterans at every starting position. It's not as though they just sat back and expected magic, they went out and got stuff done.

[YASNY]

Yes well last off-season the Marlins at least signed somebody, Pudge, and traded for a centerfielder, Pierre.  They also traded for Mark Redman, which set them up with a rotation of Burnett, Beckett, Penny, Redman, and Pavano.  They went into the season with veterans at every starting position.  It's not as though they just sat back and expected magic, they went out and got stuff done.

You've got to give your young players a chance to prove themselves. Nobody on this board wants to give anyone with 5 years of all-star seasons a shot.

[DBAHO]

You've got to give your young players a chance to prove themselves.  Nobody on this board wants to give anyone with 5 years of all-star seasons a shot.

At least the young players are goin to come in hungry and they will really want to prove themselves. I just hope our fans to start bashin em in they don't produce all star numbers in da 1st few months. U gotta giv em time to settle in 1st.

[YASNY]

At least the young players are goin to come in hungry and they will really want to prove themselves. I just hope our fans to start bashin em in they don't produce all star numbers in da 1st few months. U gotta giv em time to settle in 1st.

Hell. There were people calling for the Sox to dump Crede during the 1st half last year. It takes time to learn how to be a major league ballplayer for most guys. Especially pitchers. There are exceptions, but they are rare.

[Spiff]

You've got to give your young players a chance to prove themselves.  Nobody on this board wants to give anyone with 5 years of all-star seasons a shot.

I don't want them to depend on kids. Depend, as in, two starters, the starting second baseman, and possibly the starting centerfielder. Not if they are serious about winning. It seems like they're trying to rebuild while saying they want to contend, and falling somewhere inbetween every year which accomplishes nothing. I think they're afraid to completely rebuild, because rebuilding = losing for a few years, and this team gets no attention at all if it's not winning. At the same time, signing established good players costs money. If they can convince people that they are trying to win, while letting good players walk and replacing them with cheaper, unproven kids (albeit some of them with high upside), then I think they are right where they want to be.

[DBAHO]

I don't want them to depend on kids.  Depend, as in, two starters, the starting second baseman, and possibly the starting centerfielder.  Not if they are serious about winning.  It seems like they're trying to rebuild while saying they want to contend, and falling somewhere inbetween every year which accomplishes nothing.  I think they're afraid to completely rebuild, because rebuilding = losing for a few years, and this team gets no attention at all if it's not winning.  At the same time, signing established good players costs money.  If they can convince people that they are trying to win, while letting good players walk and replacing them with cheaper, unproven kids (albeit some of them with high upside), then I think they are right where they want to be.

That's why I giv Mark Shapiro the GM of the Indians heaps of credit. His team could hav been around the .500 mark for the last 2 years, but he's decided to take a chance and rebuild his team from the ground up so that the team can win a World Series. Not all GM's would hav had da balls to do that.

[YASNY]

I don't want them to depend on kids.  Depend, as in, two starters, the starting second baseman, and possibly the starting centerfielder.  Not if they are serious about winning.  It seems like they're trying to rebuild while saying they want to contend, and falling somewhere inbetween every year which accomplishes nothing.  I think they're afraid to completely rebuild, because rebuilding = losing for a few years, and this team gets no attention at all if it's not winning.  At the same time, signing established good players costs money.  If they can convince people that they are trying to win, while letting good players walk and replacing them with cheaper, unproven kids (albeit some of them with high upside), then I think they are right where they want to be.

You and 80% of the rest of this board. Let's see, you'd rather have Robbie Alomar, who hasn't done much of anything in two years. Carl Everett, who should never be allowed to visit centerfield, much less play there. Tom Gordon, who finally had his first healthy year in the last 4 or so, at age 35. Sully, who has been overworked by the Reds for the past four years that his arm could fall off at anytime. But, showing I have an open mind, I'll give you Colon, even though he only bears down and pitches hard when he's in the mood.

 

No thanks. I'll take my chances with Harris, Rowand, Wright, Cotts, Diaz, Ginter, Reed, Borchard and Crede before I go with Geritol gang mentioned above.

[DBAHO]

You and 80% of the rest of this board.  Let's see, you'd rather have Robbie Alomar, who hasn't done much of anything in two years.  Carl Everett, who should never be allowed to visit centerfield, much less play there.  Tom Gordon, who finally had his first healthy year in the last 4 or so, at age 35.  Sully, who has been overworked by the Reds for the past four years that his arm could fall off at anytime.  But, showing I have an open mind, I'll give you Colon, even though he only bears down and pitches hard when he's in the mood.

 

No thanks.  I'll take my chances with Harris, Rowand, Wright, Cotts, Diaz, Ginter, Reed, Borchard and Crede before I go with Geritol gang mentioned above.

Nice to see sum1 has faith in our young players. Well ur neva gonna find out if they r gonna be any good or not if u don't play em so why da hell not.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Like in 2000? Like the 2003 Florida Marlins? Hmmmm ... not a bad idea.

Like I keep saying. It's all about how they start. This team has the talent it needs to be competitive but if they come out shooting blanks and mailing in games against powerhouses like Detroit and Cleveland like they did last season then its going to be a long year. They come out smoking and I think we'll see a repeat of 2000. IMO.

[Spiff]

You and 80% of the rest of this board.  Let's see, you'd rather have Robbie Alomar, who hasn't done much of anything in two years.  Carl Everett, who should never be allowed to visit centerfield, much less play there.  Tom Gordon, who finally had his first healthy year in the last 4 or so, at age 35.  Sully, who has been overworked by the Reds for the past four years that his arm could fall off at anytime.  But, showing I have an open mind, I'll give you Colon, even though he only bears down and pitches hard when he's in the mood.

 

No thanks.  I'll take my chances with Harris, Rowand, Wright, Cotts, Diaz, Ginter, Reed, Borchard and Crede before I go with Geritol gang mentioned above.

What did I say, I said two starters, the second baseman, and possibly the centerfielder. Alright let's break it down.

 

Colon: 15-13, 3.87 ERA 1.20 WHIP, decent. Better major league stats than any of them (obviously). Especially decent considering like you said he only pitches when he's in the mood.

 

Wright: 1-7, 6.15 ERA 1.59 WHIP last year. Bad bad bad. Bad starting, bad relieving, bad all year.

Ginter: only 3 IP last year in the majors, 13.50 ERA, 3-5 14 saves 3.03 ERA in Charlotte last year, solid 52K's to only 22 BB is extremely good. 4.47 ERA in 2002 in Chicago in 54 IP, not good.

Cotts: 1-1, 8.10 ERA 2.40 WHIP last year in Chicago, we all know the story. 9-7, 2.16 ERA in Birmingham, extremely good but again there's a big difference between AA and the majors.

Diaz: 5-7, 3.97 ERA in Charlotte last year, not spectacular.

 

All possible starters, nothing that really excites me, except Cotts if he gets his control down but that is a big if.

 

Now, second base.

 

Alomar: .253-3-17 in 253 AB's. OBP of .330. Not great. Leadoff hitters should have better OBP's but his defense was great. 1 year for 1 million is a steal for Arizona even if they bat him ninth.

 

Harris: .204-0-5 in 137 AB's. OBP of .259. Not great, not even good. 12 stolen bases in 14 attempts is really good. .380-6-13 in 100 AB's in Charlotte. Very good, but hasn't translated as of yet.

 

Centerfield.

 

Everett: .301-10-41, OBP of .377 (third best on team, behind Thomas and Ordonez, 46 points ahead of Carlos). So his batting average was 10 points higher than Lee, and his OBP was 46 points higher, yet people are gushing about Carlos's career year and some are even agreeing with his salary jump to 8 million. The Expos got Carl for 2 years $7.5 million. Why not re-sign him, put him in left, and trade Carlos for pitching, as their defense is comparable.

 

Rowand: .287-6-24 in 157 AB's. OBP of .327 is prett good. I am actually a Rowand fan, so this one I have the least problem with.

 

Borchard: .184-1-5 in 49 AB's. OBP of .246. Terrible. .253-13-53, 27 BB and 103 SO in Charlotte. Average was still bad, he still strikes out way too much. There's no way I'd depend on him.

 

What is the bottom line? The pitching is a real crapshoot. None of them have had enough innings, save Wright, to show what they can really do. It could be a good thing, it could be a bad thing. So far what they've done is not great but that means nothing really when you compare other pitchers to their first cups of coffee. My problem lies with the fact that this team (a supposed contender) is relying on them to be the difference between winning and losing. If they succeed, it is a win-win for the team. Cheap, quality (as it turns out) players helping the club win. If they fail, well they can say they tried it, the Kids had to Play some time, and whoops another season down the drain.

 

Edit: I should add that this is just how I feel about this team as of now. Obviously, like I said before there is time for deals to be made. My point is more about breaking in prospects and calling it building a contender.