C.Rector Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Jerry Krause brought SIX world championships to Chicago, and people still hated him. I was amazed at his ovation when I was at the game when they retired his banner. Even though he dismantled the team, he built that team, he built a dynasty. It seems like every owner is hated in Chicago, even when they win. 2 things: 1st: You're quite right that the 6 NBA championship teams were built by Jerry Krause who has received virtually zero recognition or appreciation for his efforts. 2nd: However, the run of glory for the Bulls was ended primarily by the sheer egomania and gall of Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan. The only thing that was Krause's fault was that he was unable to re-build the Bulls into a championship outfit post-Jordan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Rector Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Especially because for everyone who fails to pay attention to things, when JR did the USCF deal he extended the Sox lease at the ball park to go into the 2020s - 2023 I think but I could be wrong by a year or so - so that after he dies or no longer has a role to play in the Sox, the team will remain in Chicago JR did not have to do that - that was a damned good move - he saved us from moving when he bought the team and he took action to keep the Sox in Chicago when he is gone and whatever his other failings have been, every Sox fan owes him thanks and respect for that. You forget that Reinsdorf grew up as a Brooklyn Dodgers fan, so he knows what it feels like to see your favorite team move away. Its time folks get off this JR as antichrist who's all hurtful and unfeeling. Not to mention the idea that he's "cheap" given the huge resources that he's invested into the Sox scouting/farm system apparatus that's brought the team a never ending stream of quality talent. Truly, JR & Eddie Einhorn have built the quality organization that Sox fans were promised back in 1981 wnen they took over from the grossly overrated Bill Veeck. As for those "top prospects" that KW has allegedly frittered away, most if not all of them were guys like Tim Hummel who the organization had pretty much decided did not fit in their plans. In other words, expendable minor leaguers for major league talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Jerry Krause brought SIX world championships to Chicago, and people still hated him. I was amazed at his ovation when I was at the game when they retired his banner. Even though he dismantled the team, he built that team, he built a dynasty. It seems like every owner is hated in Chicago, even when they win. Bulls***. Krause was Lucky. And Krause destroyed the Bulls with his awful drafts. Thank God he's gone. No one wanted to play for his fat arrogant ass. MJ??? The Bulls didn't wan't MJ, They wanted Sam Bowie and were pissed cause they had to settle with Jordan. Pippen??? Lucky too Krause Killed the Bulls He drafted Elton Brand (good) and traded him for a pussy high school kid named Eddy Curry. Another Draft he drafted some other Stiff when he told Steve Francis he was gonna draft him and Francis wanted to be a bull 2nd: However, the run of glory for the Bulls was ended primarily by the sheer egomania and gall of Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan. The only thing that was Krause's fault was that he was unable to re-build the Bulls into a championship outfit post-Jordan. Baloney, Krause f***ed us with his Oraganizations win rings not players.. Yeah right Krause go back to dunkin Donuts. After phil and MJ the bulls have been s***. Why didn't any other Free Agent wanna sign with the Bulls???? Yeah you got it.... KRAUSE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Bulls***. Krause was Lucky. And Krause destroyed the Bulls with his awful drafts. Thank God he's gone. No one wanted to play for his fat arrogant ass. MJ??? The Bulls didn't wan't MJ, They wanted Sam Bowie and were pissed cause they had to settle with Jordan. Pippen??? Lucky too Krause Killed the Bulls He drafted Elton Brand (good) and traded him for a pussy high school kid named Eddy Curry. Another Draft he drafted some other Stiff when he told Steve Francis he was gonna draft him and Francis wanted to be a bull 2nd: However, the run of glory for the Bulls was ended primarily by the sheer egomania and gall of Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan. The only thing that was Krause's fault was that he was unable to re-build the Bulls into a championship outfit post-Jordan. Baloney, Krause f***ed us with his Oraganizations win rings not players.. Yeah right Krause go back to dunkin Donuts. After phil and MJ the bulls have been s***. Why didn't any other Free Agent wanna sign with the Bulls???? Yeah you got it.... KRAUSE Umm some of points of fact. #1 Brand was traded was traded for Chandler #2 When you draft last 6 times in an 8 year span, do you really think you will be able to draft well? How many second rounders turn into superstars? Hey Krause did a pretty damn good job by beating most GM's to the punch and drafting Euro players. Heck if Tony Kukoc were to come out today he would have been a top 10 pick. Krause got him in the 2nd round and got him to come to the US for not a lot of money. #3 Pippen wasn't lucky. The Bulls didn't draft him. Portland did, and we suckered Portland into Olden Polynice for him. #4 no free agents wanted to sign with the Bulls because of Michael Jordan. It is well known that MJ's fued with Krause and his never lose attitude made him call many of the potential FA's that first year and tell them NOT to go to Chicago. Why do you think JR has refused to give MJ any job in the organIzation? Because MJ tried sabatoguing the Bulls! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 #2 When you draft last 6 times in an 8 year span, do you really think you will be able to draft well? How many second rounders turn into superstars? Hey Krause did a pretty damn good job by beating most GM's to the punch and drafting Euro players. Heck if Tony Kukoc were to come out today he would have been a top 10 pick. Krause got him in the 2nd round and got him to come to the US for not a lot of money. #3 Pippen wasn't lucky. The Bulls didn't draft him. Portland did, and we suckered Portland into Olden Polynice for him. #4 no free agents wanted to sign with the Bulls because of Michael Jordan. It is well known that MJ's fued with Krause and his never lose attitude made him call many of the potential FA's that first year and tell them NOT to go to Chicago. Why do you think JR has refused to give MJ any job in the organIzation? Because MJ tried sabatoguing the Bulls! #2.. Really??? I was talking after the Dynasty when the Bulls had the Lotery Picks and all Krause Went for was Power Forwards who were Stiffs. (Except Brand) #3 Pipppen was drafted by Seattle not Portland. And they were lucky when they suckered Seattle in to Polynice #4 MJ was long gone when the Bulls tried to Sign Eddie Jones and Tracy Mcgrady among others... Those are the Facts and if Pastime is around he tell ya the SAME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 It amazes me that people can get on Krause like you can. I dont f***ing care if he is the luckiest man in the world, he brought 6 champion ships to a lackluster sports town, in the matter of 8 years. 6 Championships! He was the Gm of a 6 time Champion, and all you can do is complain for dismaltaling them. You sure a greedy little bastered. Every team in Pro Sports that would DREAM of having 6 Championships in 8 years.#2 When you draft last 6 times in an 8 year span, do you really think you will be able to draft well? How many second rounders turn into superstars? Hey Krause did a pretty damn good job by beating most GM's to the punch and drafting Euro players. Heck if Tony Kukoc were to come out today he would have been a top 10 pick. Krause got him in the 2nd round and got him to come to the US for not a lot of money. #3 Pippen wasn't lucky. The Bulls didn't draft him. Portland did, and we suckered Portland into Olden Polynice for him. #4 no free agents wanted to sign with the Bulls because of Michael Jordan. It is well known that MJ's fued with Krause and his never lose attitude made him call many of the potential FA's that first year and tell them NOT to go to Chicago. Why do you think JR has refused to give MJ any job in the organIzation? Because MJ tried sabatoguing the Bulls! Who Brought 6 Rings to Chicago?? MJ, Pip and Company. Not Krause And blame Krause for the Crap he left for Paxson to fix which will take more years. Krause Sucked EOS. His Arrogance killed this team Ohh and those are the FACTS He was the GM of a dynasty, and those are the facts. So Cashman is the Best Gm in Baseball??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 And who brought them to Chicago???? Dont give me your luck bulls*** anymore,cause that only goes so far josh. Anyone who says you dont need luck in sports is kidding themselves. MJ was preKrause... Everyone else was brought to town by Krause. And yes MJ told McGrady and Jones not to come to Chicago either. As a matter of a fact that is why Eddie Jones cancelled his press confrence at the last minute and went back to Miami. Also it wasn't Krause's fault that they year we had 3 picks in the top 7 it was one of the worst drafts in NBA history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 And who brought them to Chicago???? Dont give me your luck bulls*** anymore,cause that only goes so far josh. Anyone who says you dont need luck in sports is kidding themselves. MJ wasn't drafted by Krause Either was Polynice who got traded to seattle for Pip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 The problem comparing Cashman and Krause is that they are operating in two TOTALLY different systems. Baseball has no salary cap and Cashman has no cap on what he can spend. Krause was operating under a salary cap and was in the same playing field as a lot of other teams. For this reason, what you're saying has no validity JoshPR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 The problem comparing Cashman and Krause is that they are operating in two TOTALLY different systems. Baseball has no salary cap and Cashman has no cap on what he can spend. Krause was operating under a salary cap and was in the same playing field as a lot of other teams. For this reason, what you're saying has no validity JoshPR. Really??? A LOT of Krause Lovers here. So tell me after MJ and company what did krause do?? Did he get back into the playoffs??? Did he have a winning record? After Brand what where his drafts like?? And i can compare cause Tony said he was the GM of a dynasty. So then the Cowboys Gm of the 90's was the best too then.. Football has a salary cap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Really??? A LOT of Krause Lovers here. So tell me after MJ and company what did krause do?? Did he get back into the playoffs??? Did he have a winning record? After Brand what where his drafts like?? And i can compare cause Tony said he was the GM of a dynasty. So then the Cowboys Gm of the 90's was the best too then.. Football has a salary cap I don't love Krause. In fact I am not even a Bulls fan nor was I ever a Bulls fan. I'm just telling you it's not a good comparison because it's two different systems. And I don't think much of Cashman either. He's given whatever he needs to win and hasn't done so the past three seasons. As far as the Cowboys thing being pulled into this, I don't follow football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 True about Cashman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 and I will state once again, was a Gm of a team than won 6 championships. In over 220 combined seasons, the Chicago baseball teams have won 2 world championships. Jerry Krause brought SIX! I don't care what he does with the team afterwards, because we are used to teams sucking in Chicago. If Chandler wasn't always getting hurt, he could be as good as Brand. If Eddy weren't so lazy, he could be the best center in the east. Jamal Crawford just needed a good coach to teach him, so the draft picks aren't terrible. I don't know why people like you can hate a guy for winning SIX WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 MJ circa 1996 and four YMCA white guys gets you to the eastern conference finals. And furthermore, Krause said he wanted to blow up the team and prove he could get a ring without MJ. He didn't even come close. So there you have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 After Brand what where his drafts like?? That's the thing I didn't like about Krause. He never keep his word on anything. I remember (and I know he regrets this) when he said he would never trade Elton Brand. He was supposedly had been the future of the bulls. He was going to build his team around him. He wound up dealing him anyway. The year after that, Brand is playing in the All-Star game. He is a very good player on the Clippers. If he would have kept brand, I think the bulls would have turned out better than they did. Now the fans have to wait a couple years until Chandler and Curry develop. Yes, he brought a Championship dynasty to the bulls. But he also brought stupidity and a bed rep. about himself as well. That's why the star players on that dynasty really didn't like him. And that's why FA's are not comming to the bulls because of him, and the bad reps. he has got from the players who played on his team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 I blame the team for being subpar last season and I blame Uncle Jerry Manuel. Manuel couldnt manage his way out of a wet paper bag and as a result the team mailed in the 1st half of the season. It wasnt till KW brought in Alomar and Everett that the team got off its ass and started playing some ball. Actually the team got hot before the Alomar and Everett acquisitions, with Harris and Rowand in the line up, then when they got those 2 the team went in the tank for a little bit. It was the infamous Tampa Bay, Cleveland, Detroit road trip. Your argument is a weak as the paper bag JM couldn't manage his way out of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Not true...if someone like Mark Cuban or just ran the team and made a big time committment to winning and the Sox won the series, they would be LOVED. Last time I checked, Jerry Reinsdorf -owned NBA teams have 6 more World Championships than Mark Cuban- owned teams.Reinsdorf, while not hated like he is with many Sox fans, was definetly not very appreciated by Bulls fans. When the Bears had their run, it was Ditka and the players overcoming the McCaskey family. I haven't heard 1 person say how wonderful it is of the Tribune company to open its wallet for the Cubs. Fans will never love owners, no matter how successful, especially in Chicago. When the team wins, its because of the players. When the team loses, management and ownership are to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Last time I checked, Jerry Reinsdorf -owned NBA teams have 6 more World Championships than Mark Cuban- owned teams.Reinsdorf, while not hated like he is with many Sox fans, was definetly not very appreciated by Bulls fans. When the Bears had their run, it was Ditka and the players overcoming the McCaskey family. I haven't heard 1 person say how wonderful it is of the Tribune company to open its wallet for the Cubs. Fans will never love owners, no matter how successful, especially in Chicago. When the team wins, its because of the players. When the team loses, management and ownership are to blame. Not true. I know around here that Patriots fans love Robert Kraft and Red Sox fans love John Henry for what they've done to re-energize their franchises. Kings fans have no problem with the Maloof brothers, same with the Glazers in Tampa. Bud Adams, Lamar Hunt, Art Modell, Wellington Mara, there's tons of examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 MJ wasn't drafted by Krause Either was Polynice who got traded to seattle for Pip. Polynice was drafted by Krause, and traded by Krause to Seattle for Pippen. Many also forget the 1994 team without Jordan was a horrible Hue Hollins call away from the NBA finals. A team entirely put together by Krause, screwed by Jordan, who retired right before training camp, leaving the Bulls unable to get a replacement. I know people will say Jordan quit because of the tragedy that happened with his father, but if you watch that ESPN century thing he says he knew he was quitting right after the game when they won the title. Krause didn't dismantle the team, Jordan and Jackson did. Jackson was offered the most lucrative coaching contract in history by JR, and he turned it down. Jordan said he would only play for Jackson, and he retired again. He also sliced some tendons in his right index finger that summer and would not have been able to play anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Not true. I know around here that Patriots fans love Robert Kraft and Red Sox fans love John Henry for what they've done to re-energize their franchises. Kings fans have no problem with the Maloof brothers, same with the Glazers in Tampa. Bud Adams, Lamar Hunt, Art Modell, Wellington Mara, there's tons of examples. Bud Adams isn't too popular in Houston. John Henry has been around 1 season in Boston, its still a honeymoon, he wasn't very popular in South Florida. I read a lot of NY papers and Wellington Mara gets criticized a lot. Art Modell would get hung if he were in Cleveland. Even George Steinbrenner is hated. The Maloof boys may try a power play for a new stadium and use Las Vegas as the other city, that should end any popularity they have in Sacramento. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Bud Adams isn't too popular in Houston. John Henry has been around 1 season in Boston, its still a honeymoon, he wasn't very popular in South Florida. I read a lot of NY papers and Wellington Mara gets criticized a lot. Art Modell would get hung if he were in Cleveland. Even George Steinbrenner is hated. The Maloof boys may try a power play for a new stadium and use Las Vegas as the other city, that should end any popularity they have in Sacramento. Yeah well Titans fans aren't in Houston and Ravens fans aren't in Cleveland. Mara gets criticized by who, sportswriters? That's shocking. Conjecture about what the Maloof brothers might do doesnt equal dislike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Yeah well Titans fans aren't in Houston and Ravens fans aren't in Cleveland. Mara gets criticized by who, sportswriters? That's shocking. Conjecture about what the Maloof brothers might do doesnt equal dislike. Bud Adams owned a team in Houston, Modell owned a team in Cleveland. Why did they move, because cities built them stadiums and guaranteed them huge profits.The Maloof's do the same, which came out in a Chicago paper this week, and they will be hated in Sacramento. It just goes to show how much more character Reinsdorf has than most. He could move the Sox and be a hero in another town. Instead he stays here and is hated to the point people on this and other boards actually wish him death. Talk about sick. If it wasn't for Jerry Reinsdorf, no one would be talking about the Chicago White Sox. They would be long gone. It sounds like you're in Boston. Wasn't Kraft not so highly thought of when the Parcells fiasco took place? He probably got points just from relieving Patriot fans of Victor Kiam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Bud Adams owned a team in Houston, Modell owned a team in Cleveland. Why did they do it, because cities built them stadiums and guaranteed them huge profits.The Maloof's do the same, which came out in a Chicago paper this week, and they will be hated in Sacramento. It just goes to show how much more character Reinsdorf has than most. He could move the Sox and be a hero in another town. Instead he stays here and is hated to the point people on this and other boards actually wish him death. Talk about sick. If it wasn't for Jerry Reinsdorf, no one would be talking about the Chicago White Sox. They would be long gone. It sounds like you're in Boston. Wasn't Kraft not so highly thought of when the Parcells fiasco took place? He probably got points just from relieving Patriot fans of Victor Kiam. Reinsdorf doesn't move the Sox because he built them a stadium. Houston and Cleveland wouldn't build new stadiums, and the owners did what they had to do. Kraft put up $250 million to build his own stadium, and Henry has already spent money to improve Fenway. Reinsdorf waits for money from naming rights to do anything. The bottom line is, you said fans will always hate owners. I said they won't always, and I still don't think they will unconditionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Reinsdorf doesn't move the Sox because he built them a stadium. Houston and Cleveland wouldn't build new stadiums, and the owners did what they had to do. Kraft put up $250 million to build his own stadium, and Henry has already spent money to improve Fenway. Reinsdorf waits for money from naming rights to do anything. The bottom line is, you said fans will always hate owners. I said they won't always, and I still don't think they will unconditionally. Henry has spent money to improve Fenway, much like Reinsdorf did on old Comiskey when he purchased the team in 1981. From what I can tell, the majority of Red Sox fans are more attached to Fenway than hard core White Sox fans were to Comiskey. Eventually, Henry is going to have to do a total renovation to Fenway or build a new one, and unless he does it with his own money, his popularity will wane. Even if he does it with his own money, many won't like it. Hopefully it will be a little smoother and closer to budget than the Big Dig. Most White Sox fans have no idea that the new park was built with taxes collected from City of Chicago hotel rooms, so chances are they didn't cough up one penny for it, and they still go on and on about the park they built for Reinsdorf, which was built for a lot less than the other parks for which its compared and critiqued against. I did say fans will always hate owners, and while you have examples of some who may be admired by maybe even the majority, there is a significant amount who hate them. I also said especially in Chicago for the reasons I described in my earlier post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 When Krause was named GM of the Bulls, they had MJ after his rookie season and 11 slugs. At that point in time, no one knew Jordon was going to become the greatest player ever. He was just another hot shot rookie, and one that got frozen out in the All-Star by his veteran teammates because he was so cocky. The Krause drafted Grant, traded for Pippen and started putting the pieces in place. From the status of the franchise when he started, to the end of the championship era, you have to give Krause his props. He was smart enough not tro trade that cocky rookie and also smart enough to build around MJ. Coming out of the draft with Pippen and Grant (draft day trade got Pip) was masterful. Then his other moves over the years, well you can't argue with the results. Trading Grant for Cartwright, aquiring guys like Pax, Kerr, Rodman, Harper. Whoever else you can add, they were all keys to the Bulls run. Krause may not have been the type of guy you want in the public eye, but he was a very good GM until MJ sabotaged him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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