baggio202 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 KW is the worst GM in baseball history KW the puppet pull your strings Jerry I don't think so....Gord Ash is worse than KW. didnt kenny williams get some of his training under old gordo??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 You know what's ironic about all this? As of right now, we have a black manager and a black GM....we have 1 black hitter in our lineup(Frank Thomas) and we have one black relief pitcher(newly signed Tom Gordon) We have as many black men(Manuel and Williams) at key managing positions in our organization as we do on our 25-man roster(Thomas and Gordon). Just a little tidbit. The percentage of black Americans in MLB has been dropping for quite some time now. Talented black kids are not playing baseball as much anymore and you can see it all the way down to the high school level. They play football and basketball, and those two pro leagues are predominately black. In the meantime the percentage of foreign players continues to rise in MLB, especially those from Latin America. Pretty soon MLB will be about 50/50 American players to foreign players. A similar situation has occurred in the NHL, now about half Canadian, half non Canadian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 I get really tired of reading the JM and KW were hired because they are African American. All those disadvantaged white men out there who have lost their automatic preferance, cry me a river. Race is obviously still an issue in our society. It is a factor in everything. And when it falls on one side of the equation a few times all the little klaners get so out of joint. KW ran a great farm system and had Schueler's endorsement. While I think he is an asshole given the MB situation, he is an asshole without reference to race. So the white boy Evans should have gotten the job? I can imagine how you all would feel with WS GM Danny Evans signed Todd Hundley, as did Dodger GM Danny Evans. JM won a division title. Oh I know anyone could have won the divison title with that team, so say the experts sitting on the asses who never won anything, but I didn't see Terry Bevington winning anything. And Terry Bevington is why JM was hired. JM didn't get hired because he was black, he got hired because the Sox needed a new manager because TB sucked so bad and the manager we got took us to a division title. Someday JM will be gone. Almost all managers get fired. And I trust that the Sox will hire their next manager on the grounds of who is out there that has what we need, just as JM was hired. Someday KW will be gone (we'll have a party) and I trust we will hire again based on need as we did when we hired KW. For years baseball has been recycling the same tired old white guys into job after job after job as part of the good old boys network. A handful of African Americans get jobs and you start screaming about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Grow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 I get really tired of reading the JM and KW were hired because they are African American. All those disadvantaged white men out there who have lost their automatic preferance, cry me a river. Race is obviously still an issue in our society. It is a factor in everything. And when it falls on one side of the equation a few times all the little klaners get so out of joint. KW ran a great farm system and had Schueler's endorsement. While I think he is an asshole given the MB situation, he is an asshole without reference to race. So the white boy Evans should have gotten the job? I can imagine how you all would feel with WS GM Danny Evans signed Todd Hundley, as did Dodger GM Danny Evans. JM won a division title. Oh I know anyone could have won the divison title with that team, so say the experts sitting on the asses who never won anything, but I didn't see Terry Bevington winning anything. And Terry Bevington is why JM was hired. JM didn't get hired because he was black, he got hired because the Sox needed a new manager because TB sucked so bad and the manager we got took us to a division title. Someday JM will be gone. Almost all managers get fired. And I trust that the Sox will hire their next manager on the grounds of who is out there that has what we need, just as JM was hired. Someday KW will be gone (we'll have a party) and I trust we will hire again based on need as we did when we hired KW. For years baseball has been recycling the same tired old white guys into job after job after job as part of the good old boys network. A handful of African Americans get jobs and you start screaming about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Grow up. what is it with you and the hundley deal????...a day doesnt go by w/o making reference to it...trading for hundley was a great move by evans because of the situation he found himself in due to the previous GM...hundley is going to the dodgers as a back up catcher...he will play about 40 games...making that trade with the morons on the north side meant he moved two players who were very "hundleyesque" in grudzielaniak and karros while saving 5 million dollars..karros was a starter..maybe the worst first baseman in baseball..grud was nothing...so he traded a starting worthless first baseman for a worthless back up catcher and saved 5 million dollars used to sign fred mcgriff...he strenghtened his team with that move.. he has made some questionable moves..paul shuey being one of them..but this move was a very creative way for him to get rid of 2 worthles pieces of trash for one worthless piece of trash and save 5 million dollars.. as for the rest of your post....there is a list of reasons why people bring race into this 1. riensdorf is on the minority hire committee - he was urging others to look past credentials to hire minorities for GM positions...kind of tied his own hands 2. it was widely accepted at the time that danny evans was going to be schueler's replacement..he was the assistant GM...that is the position that you give the guy you are grooming to be your next GM...so it was a surprise to most when KW got the job.. 3. KW's job performance...he has done things that no other GM has ever done to mke himself look incompetent...trading for the wrong player..i only got 50 cents in my pocket...the fans better show up if they want me to improve this ballclub... given these set of circumstances how could you blame anyone for thinking KW got the job for reasons other then his qualifications???...it doesnt make one a klansman for thinking maybe race did play a factor in KW getting the job.. its not like the people who are saying this cry foul when any african american gets a job in the sox org...has anyone ever said jerry manuel got his job because of his color???...if they have i havent heard it...thats because jerry manuel was qualified to do the job...KW is not..and we passed up a better candidate that was being groomed for the position to hire KW....so there are reasons , legit reason , to question why KW was hired....now if someone said jerry manuel was hired because of color i would be right with you disagreeing with them...but not with KW... im not 100% sure that race played a factor in the hiring of KW..but if i had to bet my life on it i would say yes..and i cant blame anyone for thinking that under these set of circumstances.... no one is crying poor white man..danny evans was not a victim here..he found the same position in a better run organization..probably for more money then he would have gotten here...but to question why KW was hired is not being racist...its being a realist...too many strange set of circumstances not to atleast bring up the question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 baggio, you know that I am not going to argue with you, my friend - how many GMs are there and how many African American GMs - KW ran a heck of a good farm system and was as qualified as anyone to get named GM - if it came down to two people, Evans or KW, there were undoubtedly many factors. I am damn tired of people talking about race all the time. The familiarity that KW had with the players because of his running the farm system and Schueler's recommendation probably carried a lot of weight. What gets me, baggio, is every time an African American gets hired it is supposedly because they are black. How many people got hired because they are white? (And I think I have mentioned Hundley twice... although you know that I will never let that one go! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 baggio, you know that I am not going to argue with you, my friend - how many GMs are there and how many African American GMs - KW ran a heck of a good farm system and was as qualified as anyone to get named GM - if it came down to two people, Evans or KW, there were undoubtedly many factors. I am damn tired of people talking about race all the time. The familiarity that KW had with the players because of his running the farm system and Schueler's recommendation probably carried a lot of weight. What gets me, baggio, is every time an African American gets hired it is supposedly because they are black. How many people got hired because they are white? (And I think I have mentioned Hundley twice... although you know that I will never let that one go! ) maybe youre right CW...i said in my post im not 100% sure about my position on this issue....i just wish the situation for hiring KW was different...because i really like danny evans and i think (i know you dont ) the job he has done in LA is much better than what KW has done here...maybe that clouds my judgement.. i just wish KW could do his job...we sox fans deserve a break Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 i just wish KW could do his job...we sox fans deserve a break I pray for that every night. How I wish KW could do his job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 i just wish KW could do his job...we sox fans deserve a break I pray for that every night. How I wish KW could do his job... i want to see us go deep in the playoff. until then i am still bashing kw. maybe not as bad as i was once. the colon deal looks sweet. but he still has f***ed up a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 KW is the worst GM in baseball history KW the puppet pull your strings Jerry I don't think so....Gord Ash is worse than KW. didnt kenny williams get some of his training under old gordo??? He may have....but when you get screwed like he did in the 2000-2001 offseason then you have got to be worse. Unless you trade 3 perfectly healthy pitchers who are all somewhat young for a bum named Todd Ritchie who would then go 5-15 the next year with a 6.06 ERA.....wait a second.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I get really tired of reading the JM and KW were hired because they are African American. All those disadvantaged white men out there who have lost their automatic preferance, cry me a river. Race is obviously still an issue in our society. It is a factor in everything. And when it falls on one side of the equation a few times all the little klaners get so out of joint. KW ran a great farm system and had Schueler's endorsement. While I think he is an asshole given the MB situation, he is an asshole without reference to race. So the white boy Evans should have gotten the job? I can imagine how you all would feel with WS GM Danny Evans signed Todd Hundley, as did Dodger GM Danny Evans. JM won a division title. Oh I know anyone could have won the divison title with that team, so say the experts sitting on the asses who never won anything, but I didn't see Terry Bevington winning anything. And Terry Bevington is why JM was hired. JM didn't get hired because he was black, he got hired because the Sox needed a new manager because TB sucked so bad and the manager we got took us to a division title. Someday JM will be gone. Almost all managers get fired. And I trust that the Sox will hire their next manager on the grounds of who is out there that has what we need, just as JM was hired. Someday KW will be gone (we'll have a party) and I trust we will hire again based on need as we did when we hired KW. For years baseball has been recycling the same tired old white guys into job after job after job as part of the good old boys network. A handful of African Americans get jobs and you start screaming about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Grow up. I only posted what I had heard from a number of people. I said I didn't buy it in my post and don't appreciate being called a "little klaner." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 You are right, that phrase was a bit harsh, but you are not right in thinking that I was referring to your post; I read what you wrote. I will withdraw the harsh phrase; I was writing fast at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFan Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Just because JR is on this hiring committee, maybe at the time KW had the qulifications to have the job. I'm not saying that I like KW, but I think that to look at race is silly and maybe he has/had the ability to Gm the Team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Evans?? Shuey for Cruceta and Rodriguez, anyone? He got hosed big time on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Weather or not he was hired because of race is irrelevent, he should be fired due to incompatence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Evans?? Shuey for Cruceta and Rodriguez, anyone? He got hosed big time on that. i never said evans was perfect...i questioned that trade already..read my post above...but the shuey trade in no way destroyed the dodgers like the ritchie trade did the sox...and atleast evans has a legit excuse..he traded for shuey to help the dodgers win last year...put kenny williams in the same position the dodgers were in and he would trade mark buehrle for 3 prospects in A ball saying that 3 games out was too much to make up and the fans wernt showing up anyways...then his supporters would say what a great move..we got three guys that will all surpass buehrle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Evans?? Shuey for Cruceta and Rodriguez, anyone? He got hosed big time on that. i never said evans was perfect...i questioned that trade already..read my post above...but the shuey trade in no way destroyed the dodgers like the ritchie trade did the sox...and atleast evans has a legit excuse..he traded for shuey to help the dodgers win last year...put kenny williams in the same position the dodgers were in and he would trade mark buehrle for 3 prospects in A ball saying that 3 games out was too much to make up and the fans wernt showing up anyways...then his supporters would say what a great move..we got three guys that will all surpass buehrle i was sold on evans, however seeing him and what he did in la, i am in no way a backer of his anymore. dave dumbrowski was available but not now. i would invade the oak management team and get that new guy, billy beane new asst. the one that BA named and the most promising gm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Evans?? Shuey for Cruceta and Rodriguez, anyone? He got hosed big time on that. i never said evans was perfect...i questioned that trade already..read my post above...but the shuey trade in no way destroyed the dodgers like the ritchie trade did the sox...and atleast evans has a legit excuse..he traded for shuey to help the dodgers win last year...put kenny williams in the same position the dodgers were in and he would trade mark buehrle for 3 prospects in A ball saying that 3 games out was too much to make up and the fans wernt showing up anyways...then his supporters would say what a great move..we got three guys that will all surpass buehrle i was sold on evans, however seeing him and what he did in la, i am in no way a backer of his anymore. dave dumbrowski was available but not now. i would invade the oak management team and get that new guy, billy beane new asst. the one that BA named and the most promising gm. what has evans done wrong that has everyone so down on him???...the dodgers havent been this good in over a decade.....he took over and with one move, sheffield for joran and perez, made them contenders...the 92 wins last year was the most for the dodgers since 91 when they won 93...they just got stuck in a real tough division..best baseball is on the west coast right now...it could have very well been the dodgers in the world series if they got in...how bad would evans look then??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Evans?? Shuey for Cruceta and Rodriguez, anyone? He got hosed big time on that. i never said evans was perfect...i questioned that trade already..read my post above...but the shuey trade in no way destroyed the dodgers like the ritchie trade did the sox...and atleast evans has a legit excuse..he traded for shuey to help the dodgers win last year...put kenny williams in the same position the dodgers were in and he would trade mark buehrle for 3 prospects in A ball saying that 3 games out was too much to make up and the fans wernt showing up anyways...then his supporters would say what a great move..we got three guys that will all surpass buehrle i was sold on evans, however seeing him and what he did in la, i am in no way a backer of his anymore. dave dumbrowski was available but not now. i would invade the oak management team and get that new guy, billy beane new asst. the one that BA named and the most promising gm. what has evans done wrong that has everyone so down on him???...the dodgers havent been this good in over a decade.....he took over and with one move, sheffield for joran and perez, made them contenders...the 92 wins last year was the most for the dodgers since 91 when they won 93...they just got stuck in a real tough division..best baseball is on the west coast right now...it could have very well been the dodgers in the world series if they got in...how bad would evans look then??? some of his other trades has me scratching my head. i was of the impression that evans should have been the gm. he did everything he was suppose to do to earn that job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Evans?? Shuey for Cruceta and Rodriguez, anyone? He got hosed big time on that. i never said evans was perfect...i questioned that trade already..read my post above...but the shuey trade in no way destroyed the dodgers like the ritchie trade did the sox...and atleast evans has a legit excuse..he traded for shuey to help the dodgers win last year...put kenny williams in the same position the dodgers were in and he would trade mark buehrle for 3 prospects in A ball saying that 3 games out was too much to make up and the fans wernt showing up anyways...then his supporters would say what a great move..we got three guys that will all surpass buehrle i was sold on evans, however seeing him and what he did in la, i am in no way a backer of his anymore. dave dumbrowski was available but not now. i would invade the oak management team and get that new guy, billy beane new asst. the one that BA named and the most promising gm. what has evans done wrong that has everyone so down on him???...the dodgers havent been this good in over a decade.....he took over and with one move, sheffield for joran and perez, made them contenders...the 92 wins last year was the most for the dodgers since 91 when they won 93...they just got stuck in a real tough division..best baseball is on the west coast right now...it could have very well been the dodgers in the world series if they got in...how bad would evans look then??? some of his other trades has me scratching my head. i was of the impression that evans should have been the gm. he did everything he was suppose to do to earn that job. the only trade that me shaking my head was the shuey trade..but i dont follow the dodgers religously...did i miss any??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Evans?? Shuey for Cruceta and Rodriguez, anyone? He got hosed big time on that. i never said evans was perfect...i questioned that trade already..read my post above...but the shuey trade in no way destroyed the dodgers like the ritchie trade did the sox...and atleast evans has a legit excuse..he traded for shuey to help the dodgers win last year...put kenny williams in the same position the dodgers were in and he would trade mark buehrle for 3 prospects in A ball saying that 3 games out was too much to make up and the fans wernt showing up anyways...then his supporters would say what a great move..we got three guys that will all surpass buehrle i was sold on evans, however seeing him and what he did in la, i am in no way a backer of his anymore. dave dumbrowski was available but not now. i would invade the oak management team and get that new guy, billy beane new asst. the one that BA named and the most promising gm. what has evans done wrong that has everyone so down on him???...the dodgers havent been this good in over a decade.....he took over and with one move, sheffield for joran and perez, made them contenders...the 92 wins last year was the most for the dodgers since 91 when they won 93...they just got stuck in a real tough division..best baseball is on the west coast right now...it could have very well been the dodgers in the world series if they got in...how bad would evans look then??? some of his other trades has me scratching my head. i was of the impression that evans should have been the gm. he did everything he was suppose to do to earn that job. the only trade that me shaking my head was the shuey trade..but i dont follow the dodgers religously...did i miss any??? i think so, but either way, ager rehashing my thought, some of his lastest move may have had an agenda of cutting payroll. to make the sale of the team look a little more attractive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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