Time to face facts...

[zach23]

Zach.. fabulous post. Been storing that one for some time, eh..? 

Slow at work today and I was bored.

[cwsox]

So if the cubs are now a lot closer and on the verge of greatness, then by your logic, the "I'll keep going to Wrigley even if they stink year after year" attitude has paid off for them. They had to sit through a lot of crap, but now according to you they have the only team in town.

So wouldn't that mean doing the opposite and not showing up would have kept them from increasing payroll and adding key players to plug holes? Is it possible that all those seasons of 2 million+ fans since the 80's have given the team the luxury of adding whomever they want?

So you are mad that the team across town is plugging holes and doing more than ours to make it to the World Series, but you are saying we should not be like them and support the team in good times and bad? Is there any guarantee the sox will even be supported when they win? The Sox were winning the division in 2000 and the place was empty in September. I was at most of the games and thought maybe I was watching a team that was out of the race. Last season, the series against the Twins in September barely broke 30,000 for two of the games, and the other two were less than 30,000. If it is true that people will show up when they win, why not a sellout during games when you are playing your rival for first place in September?

The team up north is kicking our team's ass at the gate year after year. And yeah, most of them might be people that don't know the score of the game, but they are spending money. They are packing the place without selling half-price tickets two days a week. Thus, the team has money to increase payroll. Sox fans can keep staying away in droves in hopes to exact revenge on ownership, and the media will be able to show more shots of empty seats and blame it all on the park, neighborhood, color of the sky above the Cell, etc. The casual fans will see that and continue to go elsewhere. Sorry, but there are not enough diehards to draw 2.5 to 3 million fans a season, you have to attract some of the people that are there just to be there. Face it, the Sox have a payroll like a small market team because they draw like a small market team. Yeah I know, if JR sells everyone will go flocking back to the park. What happens if a new owner does spend money and it is a situation like the Mets, high salaried players who wind up sucking? More b****ing and no-shows due to a sucky team and the cycle starts again. High payroll doesn't guarantee winning.

Just my opinion, and I am not saying the fans do not have a right to complain, stay home, boo, whatever. It just seems like a contradiction to say the fans up north are fools for showing up and then lament that our team does not have the same options when it comes to payroll.

Some day when the team is contracted we will all have something new to b**** about finally.

[Steff]

We will hopefully get the chance to ask these questions at SoxFest.

 

snip...

Jim.. are you attending Sox Fest..?

[Guest JimH]

1):  Just where do you get the idea that KW is a figurehead?  From Steff's name-dropping gossip-mongering?

 

 

2): Roberto Alomar went FA because he was/is a greedy mercenary type who thought that his agent could sucker a team into giving him a fat contract on a silver platter for his slacker self.  Things did not work out his way and he wound up with far less than what he could have gotten from the Sox.  Its really a win for the good guys since Willie Harris will almost certainly play his heart out at 2b. 

 

 

3): Why should KW provide agents with ammo to use against the team?  What's wrong with getting the most bang out of the buck especially when those bucks came from the wallets of the Sox fans in the first place?

 

 

4): What need is there for any such improvements?  Why do you think that not enough has been done to train players in bunting?  Do you have any evidence to back up your apparent belief  that Sox training/player development is deficient?

 

 

5):  The Tribune Co. owns both the Cubs and much of the local media.  Of course they are going to promote the Cubs to the nth degree.  The only way that the Sox can counteract the Tribune colossus is for someone in the ownership to buy either the Sun-Times or some other major media outlet and using it as a Sox propaganda tool.

 

 

And to quickman's 6th question:  On paper, the 2004 Sox have the potential to be just as good if not even better than last year's team.  However, the reliable JM was replaced by Ozzie who could either be the Ditka of baseball or the Hispanic Terry Bevington.  It is with Captain Guillen that the course of the USS White Sox is set and if if can capture the Great White World Series is anybody's guess at the moment.

Hey Rector, thanks for your thoughts.

 

Let me try to answer things one at a time.

 

1). On the KW "figurehead" thing, no I did not pick that up from any poster here. Not Steff or anyone else. I do, though, watch things carefully, listen carefully, go to season ticket holder events, talk to people, have met people in the Sox organization, go to spring training every year, and more. It is my own opinion, based on my own conversations and observations.

 

2). I see you've got your take on Robbie Alomar and why he went elsewhere. What makes you so certain your version is correct?

 

3). On the budget, it's just my opinion as a season ticket holder that we should have an awareness of what the budget is. The White Sox, though a private company, are in large measure public domain. I don't think knowing the budget figure is 100% owed to us, but I think if the Sox were a little more forthcoming to their fans with information, some of the public gossiping and rumor mongering would cease.

 

4). On the bunting/player development issues ... Are you serious, have you watched this team try to play situational baseball the last 4-5 years? Have you seen how many times this team has failed to move runners over, bunt, etc.?

I have. That's my evidence, along with no World Series appearances in my lifetime.

 

 

5). See my answer, #3, above. Maybe if the Sox would be more forthcoming with their plans and try an approach of above board honesty with the fans, there's be less bunker mentality and cloak and dagger approach to management and public relations. It wouldn't take buying the Sun Times and using it as a Sox propaganda tool, that's not necessary. Above board honesty would help though.

 

6). On paper, this team has the potential to be as good or better than last years team? Really? Take a look at the losses, look at the additions. My math works a little different than yours I guess. You are right when you say it could work out for the better, I hope it does. But there are more "if's" right now than there were in September, player-wise. Ozzie Guillen is one of the biggest "if's". Do you think Guillen was KW's first choice? I don't. I think it was Reinsdorf's first choice, or maybe Einhorn's, or Hemond's, or ... see response #1.

[Ozzietheairedale]

zach-

 

Your premise that the Cubs began investing in their team over the last couple of years because they filled up their ballpark over the last decade and saved their money is ludicrous. The Cubs are owned by the Tribune! The issue has never been whether the Cubs could afford to invest in high priced talent, it was simply whether they wanted to shift their Cub earnings to another division that may have been doing less well.

 

Cub fans have been filling that ballpark for years and the Cubs still sucked. Recently, they apparently have made a decision to win now, but that is independant of the attendance at the ballpark.

 

More importantly, the question arises: why do the Cubs fill that park and the Sox can't fill The Cell unless they are playing the Cubs? I believe it has to do with the decades of free TV that has created many more Cub fans than Sox fans. Also, let's face it. Most independant observers (not Sox or Cub fans) would rather go to Wrigley than the Cell largely because of the sterility of our park and its location. There simply is no way to get around the fact that Sox management made a colossal error in choosing the appearance and location of that park as well as its earlier decision to go to pay TV.

 

Now add a stumbling, bumbling goof of a GM who has alienated other GMs and players alike and an ownership group who apparently has done the same thing and can't keep up financially - you've got the current mess we're in.

[israel4ever]

USCF is not a lousy park in a lousy neighborhood.  I for one, love spending my summer there.

I agree completely!

 

Everything the original poster said might be true, but, the "Cell" is SOOOO much better than Wrigley; I don't have time to get into all the reasons why!

 

:fthecubs