Chisoxfn Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 The players this team will miss are Bartolo Colon and Tom Gordon. Essentially those are the two players the Sox lost that were with the team all season. I still don't believe that Roberto Alomar was anything special during his tenure with the Sox. Statistically he put up worse numbers then D'Angelo Jimenez. I do realize he added a so called spark to the team, but I don't really believe he was the reason the Sox improved. Now Carl Everett, was definately a big step up, while he will be a loss, the team can survive without him. Rowand/Reed may not put up as good of numbers as he did (Well not out of the gate at least) but remember, before the trades the Sox were still a team that was vastly under-achieving yet still right in the thick of the race. While Sully will be missed and Everett will definately be missed, they can live without that production. The big key will be getting Konerko back in gear and getting production from Willie Harris. Think of it this way, no one really had a career year on the Sox last season (offensively speaking) and Konerko has to get better while Crede and Olivo should improve. This offense is still good enough if they get the production from Willie Harris and Jeremy Reed/Rowand or whoever is in center won't be that bad. Heck, Graffy will be missed, but hopefully Uribe can step up. On the plus side to losing Gordon, Koch can't be any worse then he was last year and if he rejuvanates he is a big step up. If the Sox can get something from Politte (he had been solid up until last season) then chalk that up as another plus. Colon is the one piece that can't be replaced, but Elo stepped up as an ace and if he can keep that ace status they will have a very good one two in Elo and Buehrle, which is the same 1-2 type combo we were all raving about last year this time (Colon-Buehrle). Remember that Garland is the 3rd but the 4th and 5th are pretty weak right now. Last year the Sox had Dan Wright slotted as the 4th and most of us were excited. This year its Scott Scho and well, realistically he couldn't do worse then Wright did last year. They also have the big if with the 5th spot, but that was an if last year and thats where Elo came in. If the Sox get a few pitchers to step up, Buehrle and Garland to improve (I think both are more then capable of it) then I think this team could be in pretty damn good shape (considering they are playing in the AL Central). The hard thing is, we see all these pieces leaving and think wait, how could the team compete, but honestly, its still more then good enough to compete as long as it doesn't underachieve like it has the past couple years. Willie Harris Aaron Rowand/Jeremy Reed Frank Thomas Magglio Ordonez Carlos Lee Paul Konerko Jose Valentin Joe Crede Miguel Olivo OR Willie Harris Carlos Lee Frank Thomas Magglio Ordonez Paul Konerko Jose Valentin Joe Crede Aaron Rowand/Jeremy Reed Miguel Olivo The one thing I'd really like to see the Sox pickup is a nice left handed bat, because this order is way to right handed oriented, but thats the same problem the Sox had in 2000 and that didn't stop them. Ya, its not the best they have had, but still, you could count on an avg of 100 RBI between Lee, Thomas, Maggs, and Paulie which would be pretty damn good run support. And then Jose and Crede should have solid production (Jose's average will probably be crappy, but he does hit the homers and knock in runs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I agree whole-heartedly. This team still has a VERY good shot at being in the thick of things in september. While Colon will be missed, he will not make this team go from a playoff-caliber to a dud. If ozzie had make these guys play, we'll be alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 This is true....We have a great shot at getting to the playoffs in the division we play in. I know Ozzie won't take any of these games lightly against the Tigers, Indians, etc.....The question is, IF we get to the playoffs....What do we end up doing from there? I think we'll have a tough time competing w/ the teams outside of the division. But we're not out of it until Roseanne (the fat lady) sings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 This is true....We have a great shot at getting to the playoffs in the division we play in. I know Ozzie won't take any of these games lightly against the Tigers, Indians, etc.....The question is, IF we get to the playoffs....What do we end up doing from there? I think we'll have a tough time competing w/ the teams outside of the division. But we're not out of it until Roseanne (the fat lady) sings. exactly, who thought the marlins would do anything last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 19, 2004 Author Share Posted January 19, 2004 Plus, you have to remember, if this team is in competition come June, there is nothing to say that they won't go out and add a few million in payroll then. I know its not JR's style, but if he feels the team could go far and he smells playoff revenue, then I'm sure its a possibility. Afterall, the only player I really blame the Sox for losing is Bartolo Colon, but when you look at it they made a very very fair offer. Would it of been nice to get Ponson yes, but JR obviously wasn't comfortable adding his payroll unless he felt very confident that he was getting a stud pitcher. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I am thinking in some way shape or form that was his approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I've said this before, I'm not gonna judge the team on paper months before the season starts. On any given day etc. etc. etc. Nobody last year wanted to sing the praises of our great team on paper, but now we ALL pass judgement on our so-so team on paper. I don't get it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I guess I'll add to the positive note of this string... Nobody in this division is blowing anybody away on paper. I know one of the papers pointed out that Sox have the fewest pitcher wins on their roster, but it was only 17 behind KC 5 behind Minnesota, and this paper failed to mention that the Sox 1-2-3 starters are as good on paper as anyone else in the division. I know that "on paper" doesn't mean much once the first pitch is thrown, but since it's the off-season you kind of have to start from there. It's going to be a wildly competitive division, I think Sox, Twins, KC, and even the Indians are going to be with in 5-7 games of each other all year. If Ozzie can give 1/2 the boost that Pena gave the Royals than the Sox should be an exciting team this year. I thought it was interesting that Sox are the only team with 2 pitchers that had BA against under .200 from both sides of the plate (Wunsch and Marte). That's a real good base to build a bullpen around. I just think it's funny how Stark didn't single out that the Sox had this, if it was Boston or NY he would have written an article about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Who knows how the sox will do this year, I've thought the last three years on paper they've had the best team in the al central, this year I don't, so hopefully now they'll actually win the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Everyone says Scott Sullivan was a great reliever but I went to 10 games last summer and every time I saw him pitch he got lit up. Am I missing something here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Team sure is not better and that team could not get the job, this one will not either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I essentially agree. Crede, Olivo, Rowand and Harris are all capapble of doing much more. I can envision Crede and Rowand taking major steps forward. If Harris can hit .260, draw some walks and steal 35 bases, I'd be thrilled. PK should return to the productivity of 2000=01=02. Maggs can play better. CLee should be entering his prime. The only guys I fear slippage from are Frank and Jose. Both are at the age when a player can decline substantially. We'll see. As for the pitching, if we could get one more veteran starting pitcher, I'd feel better. But I'm willing to wait and see. And, no, Koch can't be any worse, but I'm not optimistic that he'll bounce back big. He was overused in Toronto and Oakland and had elbow surgery at Clemson. He's a major, major question mark. Marte is going to have to be the man in the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Lots of "Ifs" is what concerns me. If Willie Harris plays everyday at 2nd base, can he have an OBP around .400? If Rowand is the opening day CF, can he bat his weight? IF Garland decides to break out? Every team starts 0-0 on April 1st or March 31st. In 2000, nobody had high expectations. We will see. It just seems a lot has to go right for the Sox to compete right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loaiza21 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 But we lost Daubach! DAUBACH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I essentially agree. Crede, Olivo, Rowand and Harris are all capapble of doing much more. I can envision Crede and Rowand taking major steps forward. If Harris can hit .260, draw some walks and steal 35 bases, I'd be thrilled. PK should return to the productivity of 2000=01=02. Maggs can play better. CLee should be entering his prime. The only guys I fear slippage from are Frank and Jose. Both are at the age when a player can decline substantially. We'll see. As for the pitching, if we could get one more veteran starting pitcher, I'd feel better. But I'm willing to wait and see. And, no, Koch can't be any worse, but I'm not optimistic that he'll bounce back big. He was overused in Toronto and Oakland and had elbow surgery at Clemson. He's a major, major question mark. Marte is going to have to be the man in the pen. or this could happen: crede backslides and hits 235 with about 12 dingers olivo is the most undisciplined hitter ive seen..he's a henry blanco clone.. rowand is at best a 4th outfielder and playing full time all year will takes its tool...he reminds of graffy..he was a great fill in for a few days here and there..but hhen he played a string of games a s a starter he'd end up in 0-20 funks.. harris couldnt hit 260 in a wet dream pk has to get healthy with his hip problems..right now he could very well be on the bo jackson albert belle pathway towards retirement clee has shown in the past everytime he is ready to make the next step he backslides..why should now be any different?? whats really gonna happen..probably something in between what you and i posted...id like to believe that crede abd lee are gonna take that next step..i think they have the best chance out of that group of having positives outcomes..the rest im not so sure of..could go either way.. so if half of what you say happens will it be enough to win the division??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDsDirtySox Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Everyone says Scott Sullivan was a great reliever but I went to 10 games last summer and every time I saw him pitch he got lit up. Am I missing something here? I totally agree. Sullivan is not the same player he was 2-3 years ago in Cincy. I too am not that sad that he is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I'm dissapointed.. not even one... "no, they're worse" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 it's always a mixture of good and bad. That's why generally the team with the most overall talent wins. As for the 2000 Sox, they were blessed that Eldred and Baldwin pitched out of their asses for the first three months. The rest of the division sucked. And the Sox hit the s*** out of the ball -- until those three games against Seattle in October. Right now I still believe the Twins have the most overall talent -- as well as a strong belief that they can beat the Sox whenever they really need to beat them. Until the Sox prove them wrong, the Twinkies are the team to beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Until the Sox prove them wrong, the Twinkies are the team to beat. I only agree from the standpoint that they are the division winners from last year. I really think the team to beat in this division are the Royals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Plus, you have to remember, if this team is in competition come June, there is nothing to say that they won't go out and add a few million in payroll then. I know its not JR's style, but if he feels the team could go far and he smells playoff revenue, then I'm sure its a possibility. Afterall, the only player I really blame the Sox for losing is Bartolo Colon, but when you look at it they made a very very fair offer. Would it of been nice to get Ponson yes, but JR obviously wasn't comfortable adding his payroll unless he felt very confident that he was getting a stud pitcher. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I am thinking in some way shape or form that was his approach. I think that the fact that JR was unwilling to spend any more on the team now suggests that even he thinks it is unlikely to win anything this year. Basically, you could look at any team in baseball, come up with a series of "if this guy would only play up to his potential" remarks, and put them in the World Series. Anybody who says they are unwilling to evaluate the team now and wants to wait until April or May is just putting their head in the sand. Nobody in their right mind would look at our starting pitching and believe the team has any chance of being anything but .500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Too many question marks without reason tro believe they will be ! 4th and 5 th starter?? E-Lo?? Stays elite or back to normal? 2nd Base ?? CF?? Lead off ?? Closer?? Then you have these exciting questions Konerko?? All-Star or Gone? Frank? Declining or holding his own? I agree Lee, Crede, and others will continue to improve. I just think we have too many question marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I only agree from the standpoint that they are the division winners from last year. I really think the team to beat in this division are the Royals. I really think that the Royals are overrated and setting themselves up for a let down(the fans). When you look at the Royals from the outside you see a team that won 83 games and made some nice personal improvements, but what you don't see is that last years team DRASTICLY overachieved(with stats to support this) and most of the improvements were minor. Some people will say that the Royals should win around 90 games and win the division, but I see a team that will struggle to be over .500. Their offense, defense, and bullpen are no better then the Sox, and their starting staff has as many question marks(maybe more). I have to agree with the other fan that said the Twins are probably the team to beat at this point. They did lose 2 key bullpen members, a catcher, and a couple of veteran bottom of the rotation pitchers, but I think the Twins have the strongest upper minor league system in the AL Central with top prospects like Mauer, Bonser, Morneau, Cuddyer, Restovich, Balfour, Ryan, Crain, Ford, Nakamura, and company. I know that most of those guys will struggle or bust, but 1 or 2 of them should be able to put up respectible numbers at the least. They also resigned Stewart, who I think is a very good player and was the key to the Twins stretch run, and they got Nathan back in the Pierzynski, who should help soften the blow of Hawkins leaving. I really think they are still the team to beat(not to mention the fact that they always seem to overachieve and win more games then they talent would suggest), but I think any of the 3 teams could easily win the division. Staying healthy and the team that gets the most production out of the bottom of their rotation will probably be the keys to winning the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Too many question marks without reason tro believe they will be ! 4th and 5 th starter?? E-Lo?? Stays elite or back to normal? 2nd Base ?? CF?? Lead off ?? Closer?? Then you have these exciting questions Konerko?? All-Star or Gone? Frank? Declining or holding his own? I agree Lee, Crede, and others will continue to improve. I just think we have too many question marks. even if 1/2 of these "question marks" become a yes, the sox will be in contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! After reading all the crap on WSI, where everybody over there is negative about this season, it's good to read some Sox fans haven't given up on this season. Losing Colon will hurt, but I still believe that Gordon is one curveball away from another season-ending injury. We caught lightning in a bottle in the fact he was able to stay healthy, but I don't think the Yankees will be so lucky. And I also think Sullivan was vastly overrated. Who I'm really hoping steps up this year is Rauch. I think if he can stay healthy, he could really step in and take that 4th or 5th starter's job and get the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Damn I wish I could share the optimism that some of you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Great post again. I am feeling better about our Sox after reading recent posts. You said: "Crede, Olivo, Rowand and Harris are all capapble of doing much more. I can envision Crede and Rowand taking major steps forward. If Harris can hit .260, draw some walks and steal 35 bases, I'd be thrilled." For some reason, I am not worried about Crede and Rowand. And I sort of like Olivo's potential. I am worried about Harris though. If he comes out sucking; I mean hitless in our first four games, I hope we start platooning him or benching him. He and Uribe scare me. I feel KW will be in love with both and they will hit .051 in the first two months and again we'll be buried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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