striker Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 It's pretty funny how so many people will write off the Sox cause they don't have a $150million payroll with 4 gold glovers, 5 aces and a bunch of silver sluggers. It's not the most talents people that win, it's who wants it more. If the most talented team won every year then the Yankees would win hands down. But they don't. Who thought the Angels would have won it a couple years ago? Who thought the Marlins would have made the playoffs last year let alone win the World Series? No one. I think Guillen's style of play will add 10 wins to the Whitesox. Guillen was one of the least talented players the sox ever had but he did the little things that helped the team win. Bunt, move the runners over, field the ball, hit and run. Basically think more when they are playing. I also think the team we have today will be the team that is on the opening roster. KW is a smart man, though some of his deals are questionable, and is always looking to improve the team. F the Twins. F the Royals. and F you whining Sox fans. Now if you will excuse me, I have a pillow to hump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 How does a team win 86 games, lose half the team, sign nobody and have a better chance? I envy some people's ability to lie to themselves. Because of Ozzie Seriously, I've said it before, I think we win more against s***ty teams with Ozzie as manager, but we still only win about 80 games. Striker, we are all baseball smart here, and realize you don't need a roster like the Yankees have to win. We also realize that you still need to be pretty damn good in one area to win, and we, IMO, are not. Our offense is questionable, our rotation is mediocre, and our bullpen is mediocre(at best), and no one knows what the hell Ozzie is going to do as manager. We could be f***ed, or we could be awesome. I hope it is the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Alright so many people are banking on the idea that "anything can happen". Yes anything can happen, anything good or bad. Taking into account the talent on this roster and the talent on other rosters I would lean toward the bad. But it is true that it is impossible to argue with the dream scenarios, they are definitely possible. Hooray for dream scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Let's look at who we lost ... and just exactly WHAT we lost. 1. Colon. No brainer, losing Colon hurts. His innings pitched will be hard to account for this year. However, we lost a slightly better than .500 pitcher that COULD pitch great when he wanted to. Otherwise, he was mediocre at best. 2. Gordon. Ok ... Gordon was effective for us. Great. However, Flash Gordon will always be a question mark, heading into a season. Did anyone really expect him to such a good year for us when the season started? Who's to say someone else won't step up and fill Gordon's role, just as he unexpectedly did last year? 3. Graffinino. A utility infielder. Not gonna make a huge difference, unless he forget's that he needs to tag out a runner instead of a force out situation. 4. Alomar. Solidified our infield defense somehwat. Jiminez was already gone, so THAT went a long way toward solidifying that defense too. Offensively, he sucked just as he did with the Mets. 5.Everett. He did reasonably well at the plate and gave us another LH threat. But, the dude did not "fit" with this team. We had to play in CF and he was not, not ever should be, a CF'er. 6. Daubach .... Yawn 7. Sullivan. Didn't really live up to expectations. getting old and my or may not be starting to slide. Did we lose anyone that was lights out awesome for us last year? Not that I can see. Can we replace the production we got from these guys? It shouldn't be all that difficult. Colon was our "20 game wqinner" heading into last season, and we hoped Loaiza would be over .500. Well, Loaiza won 21 and Colon was what we expected Loaiza to be. We're still heading into this season with a pitcher coming of a 20 win year and still have Buehrle and Garland backing him up. Same situation as last year. We have ??? at 4 and 5 starter. Same as last year. Can Harris and Rowand match the production that Everett and Alomar gave us last year? I think it's very likely. Defensively, I call Harris vs. and old Alomar a wash. Harris will make more errors, but has greater range. Rowand vs. Everett, defensively, is no contest. Rowand is MUCH better. Now, the bullpen. Losing Gordon hurt, but if he was still here would we be confident that we'd get the same from him in 2004? Not me. Sullivan didn't do much, so that's no great loss. We've got enough good young pitchers to fill this bullpen up and it be solid. So what improvements can we look for? I, for one, don't expect Konerko to have another poor year. He's been a consistant hitter throughout his career. Just look at the season totals for each year. I think we can expect an average Paul Konerko year. That would be a tremendous improvement. I also expect Crede to keep getting better, and see potential for more production out of him. Magglio had a decent, but un-Magglio like year. If he can step up his production just a notch, that's more offense. I've already addressed Harris and Rowand. Olivo? Who knows. But We don't expect much there. Anything we get from him is a bonus. Defensively, I think we are in pretty good shape. Everyone says Valentin sucks at short. I don't see it. In fact, one major baseball publication... was it Baseball America? ... said he should have one the Gold Glove last season. That may be stretching it, but he has above average range and didn't make all that many errors last year. So, with Olivo, Harris, Valentin and Rowand ... we are fairly strong up the middle, defensively. Crede is solid at 3b. Lee is average in left and Maggs is average in right. Konerko at first doesn't have much range but he is fairly sure handed. So, can the Sox win this division? I don't see any reasons why they can't. Just my opinion and reason's I hold that opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 No way Rowand matches Carl's offense. No way, no how. Also, Garland is a question at the 3. 12-13, 4.51 era, 1.37 WHIP, that is nothing special. There are four good pitchers left on this team; Marte, Wunsch, Loaiza, and Buehrle. Politte COULD be good if he is more like 2002 (3.67 ERA) than 2003 (5.66 ERA). Same with Koch (3.27 vs 5.77). And how can anyone expect another career year from Carlos, now that he got his contract? There are so many ifs that people are banking on just to make the playoffs, it's amazing. Don't get me wrong, I want this team to win. I hope all these dream scenarios come true, but how anyone can look at this team can look at the roster 1-25 and tell me with a straight face that the Sox can beat the Yankees or Red Sox in a seven game series is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I was not saying that Rowand would match Everett head to head, though I think he's capable. I said that the combination of Rowand and Harris could match the combo of Everett and Alomar. When I'm talking "offensively", I'm also talking speed, situational hitting, etc. Not just the raw numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Alright so many people are banking on the idea that "anything can happen". Yes anything can happen, anything good or bad. Taking into account the talent on this roster and the talent on other rosters I would lean toward the bad. But it is true that it is impossible to argue with the dream scenarios, they are definitely possible. Hooray for dream scenarios. Isn't that what sports are about. Unless were the lousiest team in the majors or in the AL East, we technically got a shot Without hope, what is there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I was not saying that Rowand would match Everett head to head, though I think he's capable. I said that the combination of Rowand and Harris could match the combo of Everett and Alomar. When I'm talking "offensively", I'm also talking speed, situational hitting, etc. Not just the raw numbers. While Rowand probably won't match Everett's numbers, lets think of it this way. If Everett plays steady all season, then while his 2nd half won't match what we got out of Carl in the 2nd half, his 1st half would definately outmach the crappy production we got from him and anyone else that played center until we acquired Everett. So you could almost make a case for them evening out. Now in the playoffs, your better off with Everett, but I think Rowand has enough ability to play well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 While Rowand probably won't match Everett's numbers, lets think of it this way. If Everett plays steady all season, then while his 2nd half won't match what we got out of Carl in the 2nd half, his 1st half would definately outmach the crappy production we got from him and anyone else that played center until we acquired Everett. So you could almost make a case for them evening out. Now in the playoffs, your better off with Everett, but I think Rowand has enough ability to play well. Based on Everett's past, I'm not sure we could count on Everett to match Everett's hitting production from last year. I will say this much, I'd rather have Aaron Rowand as our regular Cf'er than Carl Everett, taking into consideration all aspects of the game. As CF'ers, Rowand is a better all around player. Now, if LF was available and we had to choose between the two, I'd probably lean toward Everett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Rowand can't hit RHP and is only average defensively (plus arm, mediocre closing speed, average jumps) and on the pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Rowand can't hit RHP and is only average defensively (plus arm, mediocre closing speed, average jumps) and on the pads. And Everett was clueless in CF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 If opening day was today then I admit we would have alot of question marks. Kornerko, Koch, Garland, Rowand, Harris, Politte, etc. But I still think the talent on our team is much better than KC's and Minnesota's. I also think the players we have will perform alot better under Guillen then Manuel. I couldn't stand Manuel. Wunsch was one of the best relievers in baseball vs. Righties and Lefties and Manuel would take him out against a righty? Plus, I still think KW is gonna make some move before Opening Day. Put yourself in his shoes. What fun would being a GM be if you didn't make moves? No one wants to field the same team day in and day out. It would be like playing Monopoly and staying in one place not rolling the dice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 And Everett was clueless in CF. Oh, no doubt. It's just that people underrate Rowand's offense (hits lefties, bunts, solid speed, hustles) and overrate his defense. I see it breaking down defensively as follows: Good CF: Hunter, Jones, Cameron, Beltran, Edmonds, Griffey Average CF: Rowand, Damon, Kotsay, Singelton, Harris, Patterson, Wells, etc Bad CF: Berkman, Kearns, Everett, Giles, Magglio, Valentin....well, you get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Oh, no doubt. It's just that people underrate Rowand's offense (hits lefties, bunts, solid speed, hustles) and overrate his defense. I see it breaking down defensively as follows: Good CF: Hunter, Jones, Cameron, Beltran, Edmonds, Griffey Average CF: Rowand, Damon, Kotsay, Singelton, Harris, Patterson, Wells, etc Bad CF: Berkman, Kearns, Everett, Giles, Magglio, Valentin....well, you get it Ugly: Cedeno, Long, Valentin, Berkman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I don't think the Sox can really be considered sleepers considering what division they play in. Right now, we're sitting prettier than probably all but 2 or 3 AL teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I think today's move has really given a lot of hope to our supporters, and shows that anythin can happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Ugly: Cedeno, Long, Valentin, Berkman. I wouldn't say Valentin was a terrible CF'er even condering his hamstrings were f***e dup coming out of ST.......If you look at his limited starts as a CF in 2001, he actually rated EXCEPTIONALLY high in Zone Rating, assists, DP and commited no errors. I still would say he is bewlo average for all intents and purposes but let's not get carried away here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Ugly: Cedeno, Long, Valentin, Berkman. word to the wise: any criticism of StJosE6 will get you a BrandoFan response... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 word to the wise: any criticism of StJosE6 will get you a BrandoFan response... I am heartbroken, I don't know if I can keep the tears down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 word to the wise: any criticism of StJosE6 will get you a BrandoFan response... Especially if such criticism is UNFOUNDED. Meh. And I was quicker to reply than you, so there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Especially if such criticism is UNFOUNDED. Meh. please give an example of a FOUNDED criticism of StJosE6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 please give an example of a FOUNDED criticism of StJosE6 Alright, buddy-boy, you asked: --He can't hit right-handed and should have given it up 10 years ago instead of having to go through learning curve pains hitting LH exclusively now. Stupid. --Makes too many routine, very avoidable errors because (up until Santana showed up) apparently proper footwork and positioning is for suckas. His errors may not lead to many runs and he may make up for some of them with good range, arm and DP.... but still he needs to cut down on them and knock that s*** off. --Ever since his break-through season in 2000, he decided that hitting to opposite field is something he just doesn't need. I reckon swinging for the fences cost the team quite a few RBIs in the last 3 season, some of which we could have used last year ina tight race. --After bery good clutch numbers in 2000-2002, Jose had a truly s***ty time getting it done with RISP in 2003. Again, a little less selfishness can go a long way. --Needs to run more while he still has some speed. There are more......but being a terrible CF'er isn't one of them, not when one doesn't even bother to look down some stats. SuperSteve, I always knew you were a jagoff. x-lob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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