State of the Union....

[YASNY]

I am generally consevative. Not a staunch conservative, but most of my views lean that way. That being said, the Patriot Act scares the hell out of me. It is getting too easy for the government to know what you think (internet tracking), where you are at any given time (GPS technology), what you buy (credit card records), etc.

 

The information age is setting us up to where we will have nothing about us unknown and the Patriot Act gives the Government (aka Big Brother) the legal means to use the information gathered,against us in court. As for your constitutional rights to fair and speedy trial, all they have to do is say you are a terrorist and that's gone.

 

Dark days are ahead people. I believe it with every ounce of my being.

[cwsox]

this State of the Union is making me sick.

 

He has not said one thing that is true.  Everything he says is just total bulls***.

 

[Queen Prawn]

Glad I ended up missing it. My sister showed up with my nephew so we talked for a while and I helped her search for an apartment - definitely more productive than listening to that drivel.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I found the speech to be a very compelling and upbeat message that truly reflects an America on the rise again after 2 years of war and terrorism. I also found the democratic response highly amusing with Daschle and Pelosi babbling and tripping over their own words. I wonder if they even believed what they were saying half the time.

[cwsox]

Anyone who thinks the Democratic party, in its current state, can beat Bush in November is seriously deluded.  The anti-war and pro-war democrats are currently far too divided over this pressing issue to really put anything together in terms of party solidarity in an election.  I'm not the biggest Bush fan but he's currently got the wind of a strengthening economy in his sails.

I disagree.

 

The American public is deeply, deeply polarized.

 

the economy - what is a jobless recovery?

 

Where a lot of people sit, there is no recovery. Ohio has lost 90,000 manufacturing jobs since 20 January 2001. Michigan 120,000.

 

The deficits ever grow.

 

In all the planning for what happens in November, do not overlook the incredible anger out there.

 

And some will say - "not with the people I hang out with" - but that is making the personal into the universal.

 

I am making no bets one way or another on what happens in November but I will think that those most smug now will have their smirks wiped away.

[cwsox]

I found the speech to be a very compelling and upbeat message that truly reflects an America on the rise again after 2 years of war and terrorism.  I also found the democratic response highly amusing with Daschle and Pelosi babbling and tripping over their own words.  I wonder if they even believed what they were saying half the time.

They do.

 

The pity is you have no comprehension of nor respect for any viewpoint outside of your own.

 

I don't mean that to attack you nuke. I say that because unless one can articulate the different opinions out there and understand why people have those opinions, nothing is understood. That you think that Daschle and Pelosi do not believe half of what they say, let alone all of what they say, means that you do not understand what is really felt and believed out there and that there legitimate reasons to disagree with your opinion, legitimate reasons to see things differently, that people of good inteliigence and good intent can look at things differently than you.

[southsider2k5]

They do.

 

The pity is you have no comprehension of nor respect for any viewpoint outside of your own.

 

I don't mean that to attack you nuke.  I say that because unless one can articulate the different opinions out there and understand why people have those opinions, nothing is understood.  That you think that Daschle and Pelosi do not believe half of what they say, let alone all of what they say, means that you do not understand what is really felt and believed out there and that there legitimate reasons to disagree with your opinion, legitimate reasons to see things differently, that people of good inteliigence and good intent can look at things differently than you.

Good statement cw, and appicable to a lot of people.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

For those that did not see the SotU speech here's a quick recap:

 

 

Did anybody else notice that WMD changed to like "WMD related programs" or some other Orwellian bulls*** because they still can't find any WMD and therefore still lied to America and the world as a reason to kill off over 10,000 Iraqis and over 500 American troops?

[Steff]

Can't we all just get along..???

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Anyone who thinks the Democratic party, in its current state, can beat Bush in November is seriously deluded.  The anti-war and pro-war democrats are currently far too divided over this pressing issue to really put anything together in terms of party solidarity in an election.  I'm not the biggest Bush fan but he's currently got the wind of a strengthening economy in his sails.

It's a jobless recovery, so companies are making more money and being more productive but that does not necessarily mean, more jobs are being created. With all the jobs he's lost, he has not created 1 new net job in his 4 years as President. [And I use that term loosely because he never really won and his daddy's golfing buddies helped cover up the mass voter fraud that delivered him Florida]

 

The Democratic candidates running are going to thin out fairly soon and when that happens, there is going to be a LOT of support. Most Dems have adopted the hyperbolic idea of "Anybody but Bush 2004" to show their displeasure w/ the current administration. After the Dem candidate is picked there is going to be a lot of money that will be coming his way [soros is donating $10 million via himself, PACs etc.] Remember, the Iowa caucuses pretty much mean nothing. Clinton lost in his and still won the nod. McCain trounced Bush there and lost the Republican nomination. Gephardt beat Dukakis but lost the nod. When the s*** hits the fan, the anti-war majority [Yes, Nuke and others...remember the polls that a majority of this country was against a unilateral military operation without a UN resolution. ] will mobilize against the illegal squatter in Chief.

[Be Good]

I am watching.  And the whole "applause" thing annoys the s*** out of me.  Didn't they learn in school to hold your applause to the end???

I know it's like no matter what he says, he'll get a standing ovation every minute.

[southsider2k5]

One of the interesting things I haven't heard anyone mention yet is that Bush appealed to professional athletes for ending steroid usage. It was kind of out of place if you ask me, but interesting none the less.

[cwsox]

One of the interesting things I haven't heard anyone mention yet is that Bush appealed to professional athletes for ending steroid usage.  It was kind of out of place if you ask me, but interesting none the less.

it was discussed a lot on NPR this morning

 

will be interesting next time W visits with the self proclaimed steroid user governor of California

[The Critic]

I was most bothered by GW's continued use of the word "nucular".

I heard "nucular" at least 7 times.

[mreye]

They do.

 

The pity is you have no comprehension of nor respect for any viewpoint outside of your own.

 

I don't mean that to attack you nuke.  I say that because unless one can articulate the different opinions out there and understand why people have those opinions, nothing is understood.  That you think that Daschle and Pelosi do not believe half of what they say, let alone all of what they say, means that you do not understand what is really felt and believed out there and that there legitimate reasons to disagree with your opinion, legitimate reasons to see things differently, that people of good inteliigence and good intent can look at things differently than you.

You mean like this? :

 

 

QUOTE (Molto @ Jan 20 2004, 09:51 PM)

this State of the Union is making me sick.

 

He has not said one thing that is true. Everything he says is just total bulls***

.

 

 

Very well thought out arguement there.

[mreye]

I think this was the best quote:

 

Some critics have said our duties in Iraq must be internationalized. This particular criticism is hard to explain to our partners in Britain, Australia, Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Thailand, Italy, Spain, Poland, Denmark, Hungary, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Romania, the Netherlands -- (applause) -- Norway, El Salvador, and the 17 other countries that have committed troops to Iraq. (Applause.) As we debate at home, we must never ignore the vital contributions of our international partners, or dismiss their sacrifices.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

MrEye, here is a much bigger list of countries:

 

Algeria, Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Egypt, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, India, Indonesia, Iran, Ireland, Israel, Jordan, Mexico, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Pakistan, Russia, South Africa, Sweden Switzerland, Syria, Thailand, United Arab Emerites, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe - and 103 other countries.

 

That's the Coalition of the Unwilling.

 

And MrEye, you might be interested to read about how many actual troops were sent and the economic trade agreements that Bush essentially used to bribe countries like Australia into getting behind the issue of Iraq. But hey, who can forget about the 2000 Moroccan helper monkeys they sent to Iraq?

[israel4ever]

MrEye, here is a much bigger list of countries:

 

Algeria, Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Egypt, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, India, Indonesia, Iran, Ireland, Israel, Jordan, Mexico, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Pakistan, Russia, South Africa, Sweden Switzerland, Syria, Thailand, United Arab Emerites, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe - and 103 other countries.

 

That's the Coalition of the Unwilling.

 

And MrEye, you might be interested to read about how many actual troops were sent and the economic trade agreements that Bush essentially used to bribe countries like Australia into getting behind the issue of Iraq. But hey, who can forget about the 2000 Moroccan helper monkeys they sent to Iraq?

Israel does NOT belong in that group. Unfortunately, it's troops are busy protecting Israel from terrorism. Israel has been at war with terrorism ever since there was as Israel!

[mreye]

MrEye, here is a much bigger list of countries:

 

Algeria, Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Egypt, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, India, Indonesia, Iran, Ireland, Israel, Jordan, Mexico, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Pakistan, Russia, South Africa, Sweden Switzerland, Syria, Thailand, United Arab Emerites, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe - and 103 other countries.

 

That's the Coalition of the Unwilling.

 

And MrEye, you might be interested to read about how many actual troops were sent and the economic trade agreements that Bush essentially used to bribe countries like Australia into getting behind the issue of Iraq. But hey, who can forget about the 2000 Moroccan helper monkeys they sent to Iraq?

So, "Bilateral" now has to be a majority?

 

They keep changing the definitions, I can't keep up.

[YASNY]

There's a lot of people in here that are oblivious to views outside the scope of their own. Just saying .....

[CrimsonWeltall]

Algeria, Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Egypt, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, India, Indonesia, Iran, Ireland, Israel, Jordan, Mexico, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Pakistan, Russia, South Africa, Sweden Switzerland, Syria, Thailand, United Arab Emerites, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe - and 103 other countries.

 

Without Yemen, we cannot succeed

[LowerCaseRepublican]

So, "Bilateral" now has to be a majority?

 

They keep changing the definitions, I can't keep up.

I'm just saying, if they are going to tout how many countries they have then they need to be reminded that damn near the entire world didn't want the war.

 

Bilateralism is changing definitions just like WMD is in the Bush camp...papers, old bombs buried since the 1980s...wow, what weapons!

 

And hey, with all the WMD threats that Bush KNEW were in Iraq...where are they at? Oh yeah, we pulled out our WMD finding crew. http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1119380,00.html

 

First Bushie says that "Iraq and Al-Qaeda have ties" then after that falls apart it's WMD.

Then after they can't find WMD, they say "he was a brutal dictator".

Then they refuse to acknowledge that they gave him the weapons to unleash his brutality or the fact that we gassed our own people in the 1950s.

 

In 1951, San Francisco was the target of a top secret US Army project where they sprayed a chemical called syrussia markacide [sp?] 11 patients in a San Fran hospital developed ailments related and one man, Edward Mevin, died as a result. In 1956, the US Army released Operation Big City on Manhattan using specially equipped cars with 2ndary exhaust pipes and fan propelled release cases held by operatives spread a bacteria called bacillus globuli on an unaware New York population. 10 years later, they returned with bacteria filled light bulbs throwing them in front of oncoming trains to see how far the bacteria would travel outside the subway ventilation system. In 1953, CIA operative Frank Olson was given by another CIA scientist but Olson didn't know it was spiked with LSD. 9 days later, Olson threw himself out of a window. It took the government 22 years to acknowledge it's role in Olson's death. In January 1953, doctors secretly working with the US Army injected 450 mg of a hallucinagen called EA 1298 to civilian Harold Blowers who was in the hospital suffering bouts of depression. He immediately launched into spasms with his body going rigid, teeth clenched and foaming at the mouth after the injection. He died soon after. It took the family 15 years of court battles with the US government to get an admission of the US government's guilt in the matter. So, next time you think that we won't get gassed by our own government and think it can't happen here, it did.

 

The Bush administration has not yet shown one legal reason for us to go to war and why his chimp ass shouldn't be in the ICC facing war crimes charges.

[kapkomet]

I can debate all day about GWB's vernacular about a lot of stuff. He has used words that walk right up to the "lie" stage but taken with everything, he's never "lied". ALL, REPEAT, ALL politicians walk this line every day of their lives. I honestly believe that 100% of these people do what they believe to be right and to the "Good of their country". I think Tom Daschle, whom I absolutely cannot stand (but that's more of a different issue then what I'm trying to say here) truly believes every word he says, including when he said that the "tax cuts are driving up the cost of health care". It's BS, most folks know it, but they will use these analogies to drive their message home that they beleive the tax cuts are "wrong for America".

 

The point is Tom Daschle and George W. Bush are the same mold: above all else, they are politicians. Politicians are basically folks that have no power outside of their political lives and will say whatever the highest paying contributer to their campaign wants them to say. PERIOD.

 

I think that GWB has done some pretty f*ed up stuff over the last three years. But I also think that they all have. It comes down to who do you think will best balance out to represent America? Unfortunately, today's day and age, we are spilt right down the middle. And I can think of no other time the sides are polarized as much as they are now in American history except the years precedeing the civil war.

[kapkomet]

I guess I should add I know that we were pretty polarized over Vietnam, but to me today this is more of a fundamental issue then just war.

[Rex Kickass]

I love how Liberal democrats are so interested in National Security now when they spent all their years in power cutting the Military and de-funding federal law enforcement and intelligence services.

Before Sept 11, 2001, it was a well circulated rumor that Rumsfeld was indeed on the way out, because he favored further cutbacks in the size and scope of the US Military, putting a huge wedge between him and the armed forces. The QDR was to recommend a further cutback of 50- 100 thousand troops before September 11th. In fact, it only didn't happen because of the terrorist act.

 

The army that took action in Afghanistan was Clinton's army. Bush did not have the time in 12 months to shape an army. You can even say that the bulk of forces in Iraq bear more of a liking from "Clinton's" army than the current president.

 

If you recall, the 2000 campaign featured Al Gore, who wanted to add a specific number of dollars and soldiers to "an already strong" national defense and to George Bush who knew little about specifics and the bulk of whose military service involving not reporting for duty for the National Guard in Texas.

 

You could make the argument that with thousands upon thousands of reservists activated and serving near indefinite lengths of time, and half the US Army committed overseas that the Bush administration has put us in a VERY difficult position militarily. With 150,000 soldiers committed and not easily moveable in Iraq and Afghanistan, and 35,000 more in South Korea - unable to move because of the policy mess there - that America is less able to defend itself now than it was on September 10, 2001.

 

Reservists activated are waiting months for their paychecks, veterans benefits are being cut, the Bush administration even proposed reducing the not-enough hazardous duty pay that you receive for being stationed in Korea, or Afghanistan, or Iraq.

 

So before you say the Republicans are all about defense, think about whether or not they really have the soldier's best interest at heart. I'd say no.