cwsox Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 And Jason, will you PLEASE get off the Mondesi bandwagon. The LAST thing the Sox clubhouse needs is to bring in another malcontent who is not known for working hard and is known for not playing hard. give Jas a magazine with full glossy pictures of Jessica Simpson or whatever her name is and he will forget all about Mondesi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I don't want Erstad, the rest would be fine though. Oh thank heavens... I thought I was the only one who didn't like this idea. I don't trust his health. Just a hunch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Any specific reason as to why the Angels want to get rid of Washburn so badly? He's basically a Buerhle clone. Same number even. I don't know about this, I liked the original deal, where we dumped Valentin too. That lineup witesoxfan posted, I don't like it too much. On the other hand, we get starting pitchers. With the signing of Mr. Zero, what's the need for Williamson anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Supposedly the Angels are happy with their rotation and are willing to move Washburn to cut salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Any specific reason as to why the Angels want to get rid of Washburn so badly? He's basically a Buerhle clone. Same number even. I don't know about this, I liked the original deal, where we dumped Valentin too. That lineup witesoxfan posted, I don't like it too much. On the other hand, we get starting pitchers. With the signing of Mr. Zero, what's the need for Williamson anymore? Why is Williamson needed? Williamson = proven ML pitcher not to mention closer Zero = BIG '?' when it comes to what he can bring to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Can we please stop with this BS? This guy is throwing out far fetched rumors and supporting them with this Nomar-Maggs trade that he supposely predicted(which still hasn't happened). I don't buy it. Why would the Sox add 2 relievers(minus Koch) when they just signed Mr. Zero and a couple of veterans to minor league contracts(Jackson, Santiago, Person). The bullpen has turned into a strength(as it stands right now), and would still be solid even if Koch was traded. I also hate the idea of getting Erstad. The guy is one of hte most overrated players in the game. I also don't like the fact that the Sox's would add 2 big long-term contracts as well(Damon and Erstad). This trade doesn't free up much money either. There are also too many variables/teams involved. The lists of problems and inconsistances in this trade go on and on. You can debate this trade all you want, but it isn't going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loaiza21 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 If we give Mags, I want Nomar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 You can debate this trade all you want, but it isn't going to happen. OK.. we choose to debate it. C'mon.. lighten up. Damn it's tense around here these days.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Can we please stop with this BS? This guy is throwing out far fetched rumors and supporting them with this Nomar-Maggs trade that he supposely predicted(which still hasn't happened). I don't buy it. Why would the Sox add 2 relievers(minus Koch) when they just signed Mr. Zero and a couple of veterans to minor league contracts(Jackson, Santiago, Person). The bullpen has turned into a strength(as it stands right now), and would still be solid even if Koch was traded. I also hate the idea of getting Erstad. The guy is one of hte most overrated players in the game. I also don't like the fact that the Sox's would add 2 big long-term contracts as well(Damon and Erstad). This trade doesn't free up much money either. There are also too many variables/teams involved. The lists of problems and inconsistances in this trade go on and on. You can debate this trade all you want, but it isn't going to happen. How is our Bullpen a strength? We don't know that Mr. Zero is going to be great, Politte is a question mark, our only two solid relievers are Marte and Wunsch. Wright, Zero, Politte, Jackson, Santiago, and Person are all question marks coming into this year. This is great if it goes down. Washburn puts us over the top for the AL Central's Best Starting Pitching (World's tallest midget, I know), and gives us much needed bullpen help. It gives us a solid leadoff hitter/centerfielder. The only part I dislike is that we lose some of our power in Magglio, but if we aren't going to resign him anyways, we should get as much as possible for him. This isn't the greatest, but this is a rotation that can win us some games: Buerhle Loaiza Garland Washburn Shoen/Diaz And, a bullpen that I can live with!: Wunsch Wright Williamson Weber Politte Marte Mr. Zero Our lineup would look a little less powerful, but: 1.) CF Damon 2.) LF Lee 3.) DH Thomas 4.) 1B Erstad 5.) 3B Crede 6.) SS Valentin 7.) RF Reed/Borchard 8.) 2B Kennedy/Harris 9.) C Olivo That lineup and pitching staff could be real, real competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 This isn't the greatest, but this is a rotation that can win us some games: Buerhle Loaiza Garland Washburn Shoen/Diaz And, a bullpen that I can live with!: Wunsch Wright Williamson Weber Politte Marte Mr. Zero Our lineup would look a little less powerful, but: 1.) CF Damon 2.) LF Lee 3.) DH Thomas 4.) 1B Erstad 5.) 3B Crede 6.) SS Valentin 7.) RF Reed/Borchard 8.) 2B Kennedy/Harris 9.) C Olivo That lineup and pitching staff could be real, real competitive. Loaiza Buerhle Washburn Garland Shoe/Cotts/Diaz/Rauch Looks like the better rotation and it ain't too bad.. or..Buerhle Loaiza Washburn Garland 5th starter. whatever floats your boat (if you like l/r/l/r rotation) The lineup i'll switch to but I'm too lazy to make the changes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 How is our Bullpen a strength? We don't know that Mr. Zero is going to be great, Politte is a question mark, our only two solid relievers are Marte and Wunsch. Wright, Zero, Politte, Jackson, Santiago, and Person are all question marks coming into this year. This is great if it goes down. Washburn puts us over the top for the AL Central's Best Starting Pitching (World's tallest midget, I know), and gives us much needed bullpen help. It gives us a solid leadoff hitter/centerfielder. The only part I dislike is that we lose some of our power in Magglio, but if we aren't going to resign him anyways, we should get as much as possible for him. This isn't the greatest, but this is a rotation that can win us some games: Buerhle Loaiza Garland Washburn Shoen/Diaz And, a bullpen that I can live with!: Wunsch Wright Williamson Weber Politte Marte Mr. Zero Our lineup would look a little less powerful, but: 1.) CF Damon 2.) LF Lee 3.) DH Thomas 4.) 1B Erstad 5.) 3B Crede 6.) SS Valentin 7.) RF Reed/Borchard 8.) 2B Kennedy/Harris 9.) C Olivo That lineup and pitching staff could be real, real competitive. Yes, as it stands right now, the bullpen is a strength. Marte - Might be the 2nd best lefty reliever in the game(behind Wagner). Wunsch - One of the top lefty specialist in the game. Koch - I have little doubt that he will be better next year. Before last year, he was a very good closer. Mr. Zero - It will be interesting to see how he adjusts, but I think he will be pretty good, especially if he is used correctly(against mostly righties). Politte - Struggled last year, but the previous 3 years he was a very solid reliever. Wright - Pitched well after being moved to the pen. Most scouts felt that Wright's best role would be as a set up guy or possible a closer. I really think he will excel in this role. The rest: Jackson - A solid middle reliever who has closer before. I don't expect much from him, but if he is healthy he could be this years Gordon. Santiago - I am not a huge fan of his, but he did put up a respectible ERA last year. Person - If he isn't in the rotation, than he could be a very good long reliever. Ginter - I have always been a big fan of him, and think that he deserves a shot this year. Rauch - If he isn't in the rotation, than he could be used a long reliever. Diaz - See Rauch You have to understand that over the course of a season very few teams have a productive 5th and 6th reliever. The Sox have a decent pen right now, but what turns the Sox pen into a strength is the added depth. This will allow them to have a short lease on any reliever that struggles(no Rick White pitching like s*** for 2 months before he is replaced). Sure some of the guys from "the rest" list won't make the team and could struggle, but it adds unbelievable depth and a good mix of seasoned veteran and upcoming youngsters to choose from. This should give the Sox decent production from the 5th and 6th relievers. This makes the bullpen a strength at this point in the season. I do like the trades from a talent standpoint, however, I am just pointing out that these purposals are so far fetched that it is nothing more then wishful thinking. At this point I think the Sox are pretty set. You might see a few more minor moves, maybe even a trade that involves Koch, but I doubt you will see any big moves. I think the Sox are content with Schoeneweis, Person, Rauch, and Diaz fighting for the final 2 spots and hope that 1 or 2 of them can put together a solid year. A suggestion to your lineup(if the trade happened). I think the Sox would put either Kennedy or Erstad in the #2 hole and move Lee to the 4 hole. The Sox need Lee's run production in the middle of the order, and I think Kennedy and Erstad would be better top of the order hitters anyways. The lineup does look much weaker though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 otis update, WSI's Informant Otis couldn't "informanate" his way out of a wet paper bag. My god! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Otis couldn't "informanate" his way out of a wet paper bag. My god! Well, he "informanated" us about the first hearing of the A-Rod/Manny/Maggs deal, a month or two before it happened... You don't even know the guy.... Tisk tisk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Yep. Almost 2 months early.... QUOTE (WSFAN35 @ Jan 22 2004, 04:55 PM) Didn't Otis report about the Nomar-Maggs trade before anyone knew about it? Steff Said: Yep. Almost 2 months early So what you are saying is this guy might actually be a living person with connections? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Any specific reason as to why the Angels want to get rid of Washburn so badly? He's basically a Buerhle clone. Same number even. I don't know about this, I liked the original deal, where we dumped Valentin too. That lineup witesoxfan posted, I don't like it too much. On the other hand, we get starting pitchers. With the signing of Mr. Zero, what's the need for Williamson anymore? Just to make a point, I don't like the lineup either, however, the Twins and Royals have proved that getting base hits and not trying to hit homers all the time is what wins games. It brings a little more small ball into the picture, which is how Ozzie will probably manage. I like it in that sense, though I still would rather have a big LH power hitter in the middle of the lineup. Also, we wouldn't necessarily need Williamson in the bullpen, but it would be another good pitcher to have in the pen, mainly because the Sox may move Koch while taking on some of his salary. Without Koch, the bullpen is Marte, Wunsch, Politte, Zero, and then 2 others(Wright, Diaz, Ginter, Yofu, etc). With Williamson, it adds much more depth, allowing us to not only trade a reliever if needed, but also allows us to to bring up some people in some pitchers in the pen get injured. I guess you could say that in this Williamson = Koch, with Williamson making less then Koch. Though if we get Ben Weber in the deal as well, I don't see the need for Williamson much either, and that could maybe help the deal get made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 1.) CF Damon 2.) LF Lee 3.) DH Thomas 4.) 1B Erstad 5.) 3B Crede 6.) SS Valentin 7.) RF Reed/Borchard 8.) 2B Kennedy/Harris 9.) C Olivo I'd stack 'em up like this: CF Damon 2B Kennedy DH Thomas LF Lee 1B Erstad 3b Crede RF Borchard SS Valentin C Olivo Or: CF Damon RF Reed DH Thomas LF Lee 1B Erstad 3B Crede SS Valentin 2B Kennedy C Olivo Actually, I'd swap Lee and Thomas in both lineups, but I don't see that happening in a real time environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Is there a website somewhere where you can enter players names randomly and it cranks out a trade rumor? I'll bet you my bottom dollar thats where a lot of these "informants" get their info from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 OK.. we choose to debate it. C'mon.. lighten up. Damn it's tense around here these days.. It's always stressful around the SoxFest holidays.... Wrapping the SoxFest presents, decorating the charred remains of the burning bush which symbolizes the annual arrival of SoxFest, cooking the SoxFest Goose ( cuz the Sox' goose is cooked every year ), and so on - that'll stress ANYONE out!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 It's always stressful around the SoxFest holidays.... Wrapping the SoxFest presents, decorating the charred remains of the burning bush which symbolizes the annual arrival of SoxFest, cooking the SoxFest Goose ( cuz the Sox' goose is cooked every year ), and so on - that'll stress ANYONE out!!! Coffee... all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Is there a website somewhere where you can enter players names randomly and it cranks out a trade rumor? I'll bet you my bottom dollar thats where a lot of these "informants" get their info from. I don't know, but that's one helluva idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 I don't know, but that's one helluva idea! Its called the ESPN.com message boards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Its called the ESPN.com message boards You like to use that a lot mr. moderator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 You like to use that a lot mr. moderator. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Am I wrong? I wouldn't know. I have never been on one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Rector Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 This Otis guy is a fraud. He just makes up all sorts of patently hogwash tales and then gets a kick out of seeing the Sox fans go ga-ga over his pronouncements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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