Texsox Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Some of us older Americans can remember how the FBI and other government agencies were spying on anti-war protesters during the Vietnam War and how Nixon kept an enemies list. Further back we have everyone's favorit politician from Wisconsin who was looking for communists under every bed and on every stage. I am wondering with all the money that we are shoveling into the Department of Homeland Security when they will turn on us. All it takes are a few employees with extreemist political views and soon they are spending our tax dollars looking at innocents. Department of Homeland Security FY '03 Supplemental Funding Fact Sheet Today, the President has signed the FY '03 Supplemental Bill authorizing an additional $6.71 billion for the Department of Homeland Security to support Departmental functions and domestic counterterrorism operations that have been activated as a part of Operation Liberty Shield at the start of the war in Iraq. Read More DHS Budget in Brief - Fiscal Year 2004 "The President's 2004 Budget provides the necessary resources for the Department to succeed. The budget includes a total of $36.2 billion, 7.4 percent more than the 2003 level and over 64 percent more than the FY 2002 level for these activities." -From Department of Homeland Security Budget in Brief Anyone else concerned we have created this new massive government agency? You can imagine trying to hire so many new people that the screening wasn't all that great, hell it's our government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Anyone else concerned we have created this new massive government agency? You can imagine trying to hire so many new people that the screening wasn't all that great, hell it's our government. Sort of like the screeners that were hired for the airports? IIRC, 77 were dismissed recently because of faulty background checks or because the background checks were finally completed...can't remember which way the cookie crumbled on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Some of us older Americans can remember how the FBI and other government agencies were spying on anti-war protesters during the Vietnam War and how Nixon kept an enemies list. Further back we have everyone's favorit politician from Wisconsin who was looking for communists under every bed and on every stage. I am wondering with all the money that we are shoveling into the Department of Homeland Security when they will turn on us. All it takes are a few employees with extreemist political views and soon they are spending our tax dollars looking at innocents. Anyone else concerned we have created this new massive government agency? You can imagine trying to hire so many new people that the screening wasn't all that great, hell it's our government. They already have. How many people have been locked up without charges and lawyers already, contra to everything in our constitution? The Patriot Act is also a part of this. We have these 1984 type agencies going through all of our private info, without a search warrant, on a witch hunt. It reeks of McCarthyism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 The problem with a lot of government agencies is they have to justify their existance. If they can't find a threat they may just start making one up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 The problem with a lot of government agencies is they have to justify their existance. If they can't find a threat they may just start making one up. I just think its funny that the same people, Democrats, who cry and complain about things like the patriot act and Dept of Homeland Security and the like are the same hypocrites who say Bush isint doing enough to protect America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 The problem with a lot of government agencies is they have to justify their existance. If they can't find a threat they may just start making one up. Witch! Witch! Witch! Burn him! Burn him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 I just think its funny that the same people, Democrats, who cry and complain about things like the patriot act and Dept of Homeland Security and the like are the same hypocrites who say Bush isint doing enough to protect America. The problem as I see it is more along the lines of government programs never seem to die. Each party loves to spend money. As I listened to W's speech I kept hearing more money for this and more money for that. We spent record amounts of money during the Reagan years and he's probably the most popular president in the past 40 years. We put in sunset provisions in the beginning and then quietly remove them later. How many overlapping agencies do we need? Republicans are not without their contradictions. We can trust the government to execute citizens but not to cure their colds. I would think small Government Republicans would also be concerned about creating these giant oversight agencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxy Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 I just think its funny that the same people, Democrats, who cry and complain about things like the patriot act and Dept of Homeland Security and the like are the same hypocrites who say Bush isint doing enough to protect America. I'm one of those people who is complaining about Bush not protecting us--and that's because I feel that he is NOT protecting Americans from things that kill Americans most. So, in THAT regard I do feel that this agency along with many of his spending ventures are wasting my tax dollars and invading MY privacy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 I'm one of those people who is complaining about Bush not protecting us--and that's because I feel that he is NOT protecting Americans from things that kill Americans most. So, in THAT regard I do feel that this agency along with many of his spending ventures are wasting my tax dollars and invading MY privacy.... Oh yeah, thats right. You're the one that wants the federal government to arrest shoplifters and pickpockets but you dont want them going after terrorists. Got it. Invading YOUR privacy? Did you notice a transmitter in your light fixtures? Maybe a sedan with 2 guys in dark suits and sunglasses parked across the street? You catch someone snapping photos of you while you were changing clothes? The only people who have anything to fear from law enforcement are criminals and I fail to see how an agencies that fight domestic terrorism like DHS, the FBI, CIA & NSA are a waste of money. I dont see how you can blame the federal government for street crime and not say anything about local agencies WHOSE JOB IT IS to stop that kind of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 Oh yeah, thats right. You're the one that wants the federal government to arrest shoplifters and pickpockets but you dont want them going after terrorists. Got it. Invading YOUR privacy? Did you notice a transmitter in your light fixtures? Maybe a sedan with 2 guys in dark suits and sunglasses parked across the street? You catch someone snapping photos of you while you were changing clothes? The only people who have anything to fear from law enforcement are criminals and I fail to see how an agencies that fight domestic terrorism like DHS, the FBI, CIA & NSA are a waste of money. I dont see how you can blame the federal government for street crime and not say anything about local agencies WHOSE JOB IT IS to stop that kind of thing. Nuke, You are correct but when do we have too much? It's all a balancing act. Shall we cut off all government spending except military and domestic security? Let people starve, cut off funding for education, etc.? Of course not. Just because something is worthwhile doesn't mean it can have an unlimited budget. We need to maximize our effectiveness with every dollar that goes to Washington. When I hear we need an agency to facilitate communications between agencies, because the CIA wasn't sharing with the FBI, who wasn't sharing with INB, who wasn't . . . I think we have a problem. Each agency was justifying their existance and wanting the glory so they withheld what they were working on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 When I hear we need an agency to facilitate communications between agencies, because the CIA wasn't sharing with the FBI, who wasn't sharing with INB, who wasn't . . . I think we have a problem. Isint that why we passed the Patriot Act? Oh, wait, that was just an evil plot by John Ashcroft to snap pictures of ChiSoxyGirl whle she's changing into her PJ's. How silly of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Isint that why we passed the Patriot Act? Oh, wait, that was just an evil plot by John Ashcroft to snap pictures of ChiSoxyGirl whle she's changing into her PJ's. How silly of me. The main thrust of the Patriot Act for the federal government to be able to monitor private people's communications without a search warrant. It isn't about whether I am a criminal or not. The government HAS to have a REASON to read my emails and listen to my phone calls. Otherwise we are no better than any other dictatorships who control their citizens every movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 Isint that why we passed the Patriot Act? Oh, wait, that was just an evil plot by John Ashcroft to snap pictures of ChiSoxyGirl whle she's changing into her PJ's. How silly of me. The problem is we need another government agency to get agencies to communicate. Imagine if that was your unit who wasn't communicating with another unit. Would your CO assign a new unit to facilitate communication? Why not get the agencies to talk to each other and save my tax dollars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 The main thrust of the Patriot Act for the federal government to be able to monitor private people's communications without a search warrant. It isn't about whether I am a criminal or not. The government HAS to have a REASON to read my emails and listen to my phone calls. Otherwise we are no better than any other dictatorships who control their citizens every movement. I think the government has bigger fish to fry than to find out whether John Doe's farst stink or not. They are going to use these new tools they have been given to target people who pose a threat to our saftey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 The problem is we need another government agency to get agencies to communicate. Imagine if that was your unit who wasn't communicating with another unit. Would your CO assign a new unit to facilitate communication? Yes. They are called Signal Battalions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 They are going to use these new tools they have been given to target people who pose a threat to our saftey. Which is exactly why Nixon started an enemies list, McCarthy started his hunt for commies, NY's Red Squad photgraphed anti-war protesters. This stuff gets out of hand if we just trust our government to do whatever we think they should do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Which is exactly why Nixon started an enemies list, McCarthy started his hunt for commies, NY's Red Squad photgraphed anti-war protesters. This stuff gets out of hand if we just trust our government to do whatever we think they should do. Do you have a better idea then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 Do you have a better idea then? For starters get the different agencies to realize they are all on the same side. That was the root of the intelligence problems. I find it embarrasing when I hear that agencies didn't share info because they wanted to look good in budget reviews. W had to create an agency to make all the kids in the sand box play nice. Wouldn't it have been better if that money could have been spent on processing all the intelligence we already have? Right now we have several over lapping agencies all investigating the same thing. Three years ago in New Mexico we had one agency "bust" another. One agency set up a sting operation and they busted an FBI agent who was setting up his own sting. We wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars and someone almost got killed. I was trying to find the link but couldn't. It's an extreme case and may never happen again. Number two there has to be probably cause before wiretapping, eavesdropping etc. NO way a US citizen should be giving up their rights like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 For starters get the different agencies to realize they are all on the same side. That was the root of the intelligence problems. I find it embarrasing when I hear that agencies didn't share info because they wanted to look good in budget reviews. W had to create an agency to make all the kids in the sand box play nice. Wouldn't it have been better if that money could have been spent on processing all the intelligence we already have? Right now we have several over lapping agencies all investigating the same thing. Three years ago in New Mexico we had one agency "bust" another. One agency set up a sting operation and they busted an FBI agent who was setting up his own sting. We wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars and someone almost got killed. I was trying to find the link but couldn't. It's an extreme case and may never happen again. Number two there has to be probably cause before wiretapping, eavesdropping etc. NO way a US citizen should be giving up their rights like that. As long as you have well entrenched agencies like that there are going to be turf wars. Between Patriot Act and DHS (whose role is not just to "make the kids in the sand box play nice) that has been, for the most part, done away with. Also, its not like there are several agencies doing the exact same thing. FBI deals mainly with crimes that cross interstate lines and other federal crimes. CIA gathers intelligence, mainly humint, from remote locations around the world and NSA is our proverbial glass against the door listening in on people all over the world electronically. Sometimes their functions overlap a little and there's a turf battle but by and large they are apples and oranges. The only way to stop all redundancy would be to merge all these agencies into one super-agency. The problem with that is that bueraucracy would strangle such an organization and nothing would get done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 As long as you have well entrenched agencies like that there are going to be turf wars. Between Patriot Act and DHS (whose role is not just to "make the kids in the sand box play nice) that has been, for the most part, done away with. Also, its not like there are several agencies doing the exact same thing. FBI deals mainly with crimes that cross interstate lines and other federal crimes. CIA gathers intelligence, mainly humint, from remote locations around the world and NSA is our proverbial glass against the door listening in on people all over the world electronically. Sometimes their functions overlap a little and there's a turf battle but by and large they are apples and oranges. The only way to stop all redundancy would be to merge all these agencies into one super-agency. The problem with that is that bueraucracy would strangle such an organization and nothing would get done. But they all cross paths. The same threats are worldwide and they cross state lines. I believe we can do great things through our government. I just want them to use my money wisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Oh yeah, thats right. You're the one that wants the federal government to arrest shoplifters and pickpockets but you dont want them going after terrorists. Got it. Invading YOUR privacy? Did you notice a transmitter in your light fixtures? Maybe a sedan with 2 guys in dark suits and sunglasses parked across the street? You catch someone snapping photos of you while you were changing clothes? The only people who have anything to fear from law enforcement are criminals and I fail to see how an agencies that fight domestic terrorism like DHS, the FBI, CIA & NSA are a waste of money. I dont see how you can blame the federal government for street crime and not say anything about local agencies WHOSE JOB IT IS to stop that kind of thing. They'll look after us just like they did with COINTELPRO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 They'll look after us just like they did with COINTELPRO. This is from a guy that wants to take money away from the military and pay off terrorists and ask them really nice not to hurt us anymore. Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 BTW Nuke, sorry if it seemed like I was attacking all government programs. I'm just getting very leery of the DoJ and Homeland Security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 BTW Nuke, sorry if it seemed like I was attacking all government programs. I'm just getting very leery of the DoJ and Homeland Security. I never got that vibe. I just think the whole role reversal that has happened is amazing. Now we have republicans arguing for more government to fight terrorism and democrats fighting against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 This is from a guy that wants to take money away from the military and pay off terrorists and ask them really nice not to hurt us anymore. Please. Actually, Nuke...your boy Bush appeased Osama on 2 of his main things that he wanted. So who's the appeaser now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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