NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Come on Nuke, do they really need access to my Library Card? Let's see she's checked out all of Margeret Atwood books twice! She's a dissadent! She's planning something! There has to be a place where the line is drawn, and I'm really sorry, but I think that is it. I'm saying take some of the Homeland security budget and put it into VAWA or education. Put it into something where it will benefit the MOST people. That's all I'm saying. Put it into the development of the FUTURE--not into something that generates fear and hatred of others. And really that's all that I've seen most of this stuff do. Like I keep saying. The government has better things to do than come to your house to see if your farts stink. They are not going to come after you without a good reason. Life must really suck for you if you walk around all paranoid like that all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Nuke, that just isn't fair. Way too broad a brush. The KKK votes GOP, should I gather up their propaganda and attribute them to all Republicans? The GOP has extreemists as well as the Dems. The majority of Americans are not as polar opposite as the marketing by both parties would have us believe. Coke and Pepsi see the world as either one or the other. Most Americans will favor one or the other but will drink either. Same thing with politics. The Dems are way over there and the GOP is way over there. Most Americans are closer to the middle. Most Americans are close to the middle you are right. And because of the watering down of canditates in the last decade or so, the split is as even as it has ever been through out US history. So now a minority group here and there can make the difference between Al Gore and GW Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 That is insulting to every thinking Jew or Catholic. Are you saying you would vote for a candidate strictly because he is Jewish? That you would select a Jewish candidate ahead of someone who you may agree with more? That people just vote for the candidate from their religion? That's not what I'm saying...I don't think I'd vote for Lieberman myself. What I'm saying, is that there is so much anti-Jew/anti-Israel sentiment in the US that a Jew would never have a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Republican Party is a great party to be in, IF you are a rich, white male! Funny you should mention republicans Mr. Isreal is Great when leftists constantly bash them for treating Isreal like its part of our own country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Read Southsider2k4's posting on the previous page!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Like I keep saying. The government has better things to do than come to your house to see if your farts stink. They are not going to come after you without a good reason. Life must really suck for you if you walk around all paranoid like that all the time. Nuke, the point is, once you've opened the door to such things, where does it stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Like I keep saying. The government has better things to do than come to your house to see if your farts stink. They are not going to come after you without a good reason. Life must really suck for you if you walk around all paranoid like that all the time. That's what they said about COINTELPRO as well. The US government has a track record of being less than virtuous and less than honest, so giving them blind allegiance is not the smartest thing to do. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, Nuke. And hey Nuke, weren't you and Republicans afraid of Saddam attacking with his weapons of mass destruction that we still can't find 10 months after. Oh wait, now it's "weapons of mass destruction related program activities". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 Like I keep saying. The government has better things to do than come to your house to see if your farts stink. They are not going to come after you without a good reason. Life must really suck for you if you walk around all paranoid like that all the time. Nuke, we are back to my original point. How do they know if Chisoxygirl is a threat or not? The process in our history goes something like this. Person A is being investigated and makes a statement that Homeland Security is a threat to our freedoms and Nuke answers with a Oops, Nuke agrees with this "person of interest" we better check him out. Nuke has been on this WS bulletin board what else can we find there? Hey look at this guy, he's hanging out with ChiSoxy and Nuke, what do we know about him? And soon innocent people are being investigated . . . Since it is in the interest of our national defense it's ok. Then the agency starts showing up at your work and just asking questions. And a nightmare starts for someone who was four places removed from the "guilty" person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Funny you should mention republicans Mr. Isreal is Great when leftists constantly bash them for treating Isreal like its part of our own country. Life is strange, Nuke! I've never voted Republican. Because, in addition to being pro-Israel, I am pro-environment, pro-choice, pro-middle class, pro-health care for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 That's what they said about COINTELPRO as well. The US government has a track record of being less than virtuous and less than honest, so giving them blind allegiance is not the smartest thing to do. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, Nuke. And hey Nuke, weren't you and Republicans afraid of Saddam attacking with his weapons of mass destruction that we still can't find 10 months after. Oh wait, now it's "weapons of mass destruction related program activities". Apu...I agree with you on a lot of your views re. Prez Bush...what I want to know is, where the hell do you get your information? You could not be further to the Left! Do you ever read any conservative, or even moderate literature? Sometimes you come off as really hating America! Do you hate America? If so, why do you live here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 Sometimes you come off as really hating America! Do you hate America? If so, why do you live here? Perhaps for some of the same reasons that you live here instead of Israel. Your admiration for a society (Israel) that is 99.5% perfect (your percentage) has led me to wonder why you haven't moved there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 s***, I read the name of the thread wrong.... [sC]: We don't hate Homeland Security [lim liberal]: No, of course we don't. [sC]: We just hate the way it turns us on.... [lim lineral]: Yeah....WHAA??!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 s***, I read the name of the thread wrong.... [sC]: We don't hate Homeland Security [lim liberal]: No, of course we don't. [sC]: We just hate the way it turns us on.... [lim lineral]: Yeah....WHAA??!!! LMAO In a panic I reread the thread title three times, each time thinking I did make a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Perhaps for some of the same reasons that you live here instead of Israel. Your admiration for a society (Israel) that is 99.5% perfect (your percentage) has led me to wonder why you haven't moved there. Someday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 dennis miller said it best about the dept of homeland security...2 1/2 years ago khalid el - kaboom blew up the trade centers...since then ..nothing...must be doing something right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 dennis miller said it best about the dept of homeland security...2 1/2 years ago khalid el - kaboom blew up the trade centers...since then ..nothing...must be doing something right... Baggs, I take it you didn't hear about the domestic terrorist in Texas a few weeks ago? He had stockpiles of weapons, bombs and other such stuff. The only reason he was caught was that a package of fake UN, White House etc. IDs was misaddressed and went to the wrong house. That family opened it and he ended up getting caught. If that didn't happen, we could have seen a bloodbath. Also, Baggs...I'm interested to see your reaction to how both Clinton and Bush should have known that a 9/11 type attack was in the heads of Al Qaeda given the documentation the US found when they discovered the plans for Project Bojinka in 1995. In it, it explicitly states that planes will be used as bombs into landmarks like the Pentagon. If that's not a huge bipartisan failure then I dunno what is. If you want info on it, check The Memory Hole at www.thememoryhole.org and he has the FOIA stuff he was able to get from the US government about Bojinka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Baggs, I take it you didn't hear about the domestic terrorist in Texas a few weeks ago? He had stockpiles of weapons, bombs and other such stuff. The only reason he was caught was that a package of fake UN, White House etc. IDs was misaddressed and went to the wrong house. That family opened it and he ended up getting caught. If that didn't happen, we could have seen a bloodbath. Also, Baggs...I'm interested to see your reaction to how both Clinton and Bush should have known that a 9/11 type attack was in the heads of Al Qaeda given the documentation the US found when they discovered the plans for Project Bojinka in 1995. In it, it explicitly states that planes will be used as bombs into landmarks like the Pentagon. If that's not a huge bipartisan failure then I dunno what is. If you want info on it, check The Memory Hole at www.thememoryhole.org and he has the FOIA stuff he was able to get from the US government about Bojinka. my wife worked in a communications center when she was in the army..she used to tell me every night they would get priority messages about possible terrorists attacks..i dont know how many nights i spent on gaurd duty for really no reason because of these alerts...every night these alerts came...that was one area in germany of about 70,000 people..multiply that by the population of the world and tell me how every threat can be checked out??? it's not bi-partisan failure...its a physiological phenomenon in your brain called dysyncronization......its like if someone sneeks up behind you and claps their hands real loud in your ear at first you will jump up wondering what the hell was going on...but if they do it every 30 seconds eventually you wont even blink.. terrorists groups use that as a weapon..they flood their targets with so many false reports that they get desyncronized to the reports...then when someone passes one along thats for real it passes right by undetected... after 911 we were no longer desyncronized...but as time goes on nothing else happens i imagine the same trhing will happen...there is really no defense for it..its how our brains work republican , democrat..it didnt matter...no one would have acted on those reports...and btw apu...what would you have said if george bush would have acted on that report and arrested those "alledged" , (remember they wouldnt have been terrorists yet if we stopped them) terrorists and had them arrested or deported...you would have been screaming about their civil rights being violated and how the evil republicans were acting like a ghestappo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 my wife worked in a communications center when she was in the army..she used to tell me every night they would get priority messages about possible terrorists attacks..i dont know how many nights i spent on gaurd duty for really no reason because of these alerts...every night these alerts came...that was one area in germany of about 70,000 people..multiply that by the population of the world and tell me how every threat can be checked out??? it's not bi-partisan failure...its a physiological phenomenon in your brain called dysyncronization......its like if someone sneeks up behind you and claps their hands real loud in your ear at first you will jump up wondering what the hell was going on...but if they do it every 30 seconds eventually you wont even blink.. terrorists groups use that as a weapon..they flood their targets with so many false reports that they get desyncronized to the reports...then when someone passes one along thats for real it passes right by undetected... after 911 we were no longer desyncronized...but as time goes on nothing else happens i imagine the same trhing will happen...there is really no defense for it..its how our brains work republican , democrat..it didnt matter...no one would have acted on those reports...and btw apu...what would you have said if george bush would have acted on that report and arrested those "alledged" , (remember they wouldnt have been terrorists yet if we stopped them) terrorists and had them arrested or deported...you would have been screaming about their civil rights being violated and how the evil republicans were acting like a ghestappo... Bojinka was the plot by radical Islamists—led by WTC-bomber Ramzi Yousef—to 1) blow up a dozen US passenger jets in mid-flight, 2) assassinate President Clinton and the Pope, and 3) ram hijacked passenger planes into US landmarks, including the Twin Towers, the Pentagon, the White House, CIA Headquarters, and the Sears Tower.) The plot was discovered in 1995 when authorities in the Philippines raided Yousef's apartment. He had already bombed the WTC, so the plan for Bojinka was a very very credible threat. They had arrested the ones that were going to undertake Bojinka, but the idea that ramming passenger planes into the "Twin Towers, the Pentagon, the White House, CIA Headquarters and the Sears Tower" was known and I think the idea that the guy who led the plan actually bombed the WTC shows that it was a credible threat that could be undertaken. There is no innocence there...the government didn't find out about the plan until after raiding his apartment in 1995 (after WTC bombing). This plan being known about in 1995, there could have been concrete steps taken place to beef up security like they do in Israeli jets. f***, there can be a bomb that goes off in the luggage compartment in one of their planes and the plane will not go down. They don't have a door for people to get into the cockpit. Simple security measures like that could have been enacted. The lack of either administration to do anything of that sort is a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 yeah apu..im sure there could have been things done differently...in hindsight there always is...blaming either or both administrations doesnt change anything...it makes no sense to harp on it...no one took the threats serious..we didnt believe it would happen here on american soil...we were soft...lazy..arrogant..whatever...all of us were....we arnt anymore...dept of homeland security was formed because of this... you have b****ed and moaned i dont know how many times about the dept of homeland security..bush using 911 to develop these programs that infringe on our rights ect...now youre whining because they wernt doing these things before 911... you cant have it both ways...if you are against homeland security and the steps taken place to prevent another 911 because you feel they infringe on our rights then dont b**** about nothing being done in 1995...kinda hypocritical if you ask me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Hey Nuke! .... You seem to be very trusting of the US Government in that they won't misuse the powers the Patriot Act has given them. Again, I want to state that I am conservative in my political leanings. I can only advise you to keep a very wary on them. I remember a generation of American's that never would have perceived of our government sending our military into a situation to where they were expected to fight but not allowed to win. As you are aware, it happened that way in Viet Nam. But the scariest thing about that, to me, was the fact that those soldiers who got sent to Nam, and died there, were children of WWII veterans! THEY LET IT HAPPEN because they TRUSTED the government too much to question it. Finally, the young people of this country stood up and, for all practical porposes, brought that war to end. Don't ever trust them. Keep your eye on them till they day you die. Teach you kids to do the same. I disagree with about 99.99% of sideshow's rhetoric, but I do thank God he is out there doing what he does. He is keeping that wary eye on those bastards in Washington and spreading the info that he finds. That, as much as you and your cronies in uniform, is what will keep America free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Perhaps for some of the same reasons that you live here instead of Israel. Your admiration for a society (Israel) that is 99.5% perfect (your percentage) has led me to wonder why you haven't moved there. Cuz I love America too! Even though we have a schmuck for a Prez! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Since I am not going back to that OTHER thread (saps too much energy!), I want to respond to something here. Someone asked me yesterday, "If I don't like Barry Manilow, does that mean I am an Anti-Semite? Of course not, BUT, if you don't like him solely because he is Jewish, then you are an anti-Semite. Make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Hose Jon Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Cuz I love America too! Even though we have a schmuck for a Prez! Oh My God Finally something we agree on John Edwards in 2004 would correct our current situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Your distaste for Bush seems odd given the close similarities between him and Sharon. The DHS has better things to do argument is too similar to "If you don't have anything to hide, why worry?" argument. The point is, we are a free people. We shouldn't have to worry about a government infringing on our freedom to "protect us from ourselves." That isn't protection. What's more the DHS programs rely heavily on funds and resources used at a local level that will not be reimbursed quickly. When many cities and states are finding it difficult enough to get the cash for unfunded mandates that the federal government already requires, additional ones from DHS make local and state governments that much more stretched thin when it comes to providing basic, essential functions. There is an should be an element of risk to being an American. We are a free people. And being a free people means that at times we are subject to being attacked. You can not have total security and total liberty at the same time, a balance needs to be found. I think this balance seemed pretty right on, even after September 11th. Our priorities should have been reinvesting in human intelligence, and communication SHARING - not expanding the roles of wiretaps etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Your distaste for Bush seems odd given the close similarities between him and Sharon. The DHS has better things to do argument is too similar to "If you don't have anything to hide, why worry?" argument. The point is, we are a free people. We shouldn't have to worry about a government infringing on our freedom to "protect us from ourselves." That isn't protection. What's more the DHS programs rely heavily on funds and resources used at a local level that will not be reimbursed quickly. When many cities and states are finding it difficult enough to get the cash for unfunded mandates that the federal government already requires, additional ones from DHS make local and state governments that much more stretched thin when it comes to providing basic, essential functions. There is an should be an element of risk to being an American. We are a free people. And being a free people means that at times we are subject to being attacked. You can not have total security and total liberty at the same time, a balance needs to be found. I think this balance seemed pretty right on, even after September 11th. Our priorities should have been reinvesting in human intelligence, and communication SHARING - not expanding the roles of wiretaps etc. 1. Israel is NOT the only issue about which I care. 2. Bush is raping the environment, killing the economy, destroying the lower and middle classes, trying to take away Freedom of Choice, re. abortion, etc., these, among other reasons are why I wouldn't vote for Bush. Note: While I do think Bush is pro-Israel, I think he is a hypocrite. Bush says he's at war against terrorism, then claims he wants Bin Laden and/or Hussein "DEAD OR ALIVE". But when Israel was making noise about taking Arafat out, Bush condemns the Israelis. (Arafat is as brutal, if not more brutal than Bin Laden and Hussein, and is a "career-terrorist".) Just more "Bush double-speak"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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