RibbieRubarb Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 This info is about a week old, so I don't know if anyone has metioned this already but here we go: Last season there were eight pitchers who held RH hitters and LH hitters to batting averages under .200 Gagne, Dotel, Soriano and K-Rod were mentioned... But also Kelly Wunsch and Damaso Marte Stronger than we think? Maybe... http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor...yson&id=1710604 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 It was mentioned, But I think the best thing is that Wunch didn't give up an earned run until after he came off of the DL... We all know how good Damaso can be... Those two guys were the main reason I was against signing Guardado, back when we had that bogus rumor floating around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 a big reason those guys were so good last year was flash...he was a stud in the pen last year...set close...sometimes up to 3 innings of long relief...he did it all...w/o him marte will definately get used more which means his numbers probably will suffer a little...and wunsch we know can only go a batter or 2.. the key will be pollitte and mr zero...both are really complete unknowns..one because he is a 35 year old rookie and the other beause he has had injuries and we dont know what he has left...all kinds of question marks...typical sox team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach23 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 a big reason those guys were so good last year was flash...he was a stud in the pen last year...set close...sometimes up to 3 innings of long relief...he did it all...w/o him marte will definately get used more which means his numbers probably will suffer a little...and wunsch we know can only go a batter or 2.. the key will be pollitte and mr zero...both are really complete unknowns..one because he is a 35 year old rookie and the other beause he has had injuries and we dont know what he has left...all kinds of question marks...typical sox team Flash was a question mark too. Last year a lot of people were pissed when he was signed because of his history of injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Flash was a question mark too. Last year a lot of people were pissed when he was signed because of his history of injury. yeah i know..thats my point...its always a question mark with the sox...at pretty much every position...and the few years that everything is answered in the positive we win the division...then we fans get all pysch'd about the next year and of course having all the questions answered in the positive for two years in a row is about as likely as me winning the lottery so the next season is a huge disappointment..then we flounder around for like 5-8 years before everything is answered in the positive again and the cycle is complete... when you have a cheap owner thats all talk thats about the best you can hope... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 a big reason those guys were so good last year was flash...he was a stud in the pen last year...set close...sometimes up to 3 innings of long relief...he did it all...w/o him marte will definately get used more which means his numbers probably will suffer a little...and wunsch we know can only go a batter or 2.. the key will be pollitte and mr zero...both are really complete unknowns..one because he is a 35 year old rookie and the other beause he has had injuries and we dont know what he has left...all kinds of question marks...typical sox team good point Baggs... but I still believe we have the best left handed relief in baseball.. It would be nice to see someone like DW come in and fill that roll flash had last year... Be a bulldog and grind out innings, come in ina tough spot, save the ocassional game... that's quite a luxury to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 good point Baggs... but I still believe we have the best left handed relief in baseball.. It would be nice to see someone like DW come in and fill that roll flash had last year... Be a bulldog and grind out innings, come in ina tough spot, save the ocassional game... that's quite a luxury to have. who is the other lefty in houston to go with wagner???...if he is solid then they would give us competiotn but youre probably right about that..marte and wunsch are awesome for the south side... good point on danny wright too...its funny because i saw eric gagne pitch one time before he was moved to the closer role..ya know , when he stunk , and i remember watching wright one day and someone brought up gagne and it click that wright and gagne are very similiar...maybe moving danny to the bullpen could be huge for us.. of course that means that KW will have to go out and get another starting pitcher...good luck..more likely scenario is DW toils around for the next few years and another teams gets him for nothing , move him to the pen and bingo..he's closing the all star game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Flash wasn't great all season. I can remember a few times earlier in the season when he got lit up. I think our pen will be solid this season, as long as Marte and either Koch or Mr. Zero are solid. As long as we have someone who can throw long relief fairly well, the back end and setup portions of the pen will be solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullcollapse Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 what about John Burkett. he is still available and might be had for cheap. he could take a spot in the rotation and dw in the pen. his numbers weren't that spectacular last year but he can pitch plenty of innings and wouldn't be bad at the end of the rotation. maybe he can play a sandy alomar jr. role to some of our younger pitchers too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 who is the other lefty in houston to go with wagner???...if he is solid then they would give us competiotn but youre probably right about that..marte and wunsch are awesome for the south side... good point on danny wright too...its funny because i saw eric gagne pitch one time before he was moved to the closer role..ya know , when he stunk , and i remember watching wright one day and someone brought up gagne and it click that wright and gagne are very similiar...maybe moving danny to the bullpen could be huge for us.. of course that means that KW will have to go out and get another starting pitcher...good luck..more likely scenario is DW toils around for the next few years and another teams gets him for nothing , move him to the pen and bingo..he's closing the all star game Just an FYI baggs, Wagner was dealt to Philly, which is one of the reasons why Houston has been so active this year. So that does leave us with the best LH relief pitching in the majors....good for us. Doesn't help that we have 4 other question marks in the pen(Politte isn't guaranteed, Zero is 35 and has never pitched in the majors, Koch, well, who the hell knows what Koch is going to do, and then we have our 6th reliever, and no one knows who that is going to be or what to expect) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 It is now afta da signin of Mr. Zero. The key I think is Kelly Wunsch. If he can stay healthy and pitch well all season, it'll make our bullpen a lot, lot betta. He had sum insane numbers at the start of last season bf he got injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 He had sum insane numbers at the start of last season bf he got injured. Also had one of the few "perfect" seasons ever. Something like he pitched in 30-50 games(not sure what the number is exactly) with no wins, no losses, and no saves, the 3 major categories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Our bullpen (on paper) looks promising and pretty solid. However, I fear wearing out their arms early in the season (thereby making them less effective) by quite possibly having to have them pitch in a lot of games from the 4th or 5th inning on. And with Garland and Schoenweiss as two of the 5 starters, and the other one being who knows who, our bullpen strength could be neutralized by overuse. We don't have any real "innings eaters" in the starting rotation, and like I hinted to, I can easily see Garland and/or Schoenweiss getting bombed early in games a couple times a month. All I ask for is just ONE MORE STARTING PITCHER. Just one more. (Maybe I should preface that by saying a "proven" and "decent" starting pitcher - otherwise we'll end up with Tanyon Sturtze or some other loser like that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 We wouldn't have to be so worried about our starting rotation if Jon Garland would finally plant some testacle seeds in his underpants and grow a pair. If we could count on him winning 15-17 games, it would be a wonderful surprise and luxury, but we can't rely or count on him. At least I can't. Maybe you can, but not me. This is it for him - he either breaks out and trusts his God-given talent and ability, or he will just become another journeyman who we all look at 15 years from now and say, "It's too bad he never lived up to his potential." So far, he's in the "million-dollar arm, ten-cent brain" category. At least in my humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 I'm hoping Person can fill that "proven" and "decent" starting pitcher's role. His health is a question mark, ala Flash last year, but he is both proven and decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Yas, Person intrigues me as well, but history (Kerry Wood, Jon Lieber, etc) says that it takes a pitcher 2 full years to recover from the surgery Person had. I know it's been - how long? - about a year and a half? The point being that he's not completely ready or healthy. Maybe by midseason or so, but I wouldn't count on him making the team out of spring training - or making the team at all. Not at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Person looked pretty bad with Boston last year - he looked the same way Flash Gordon looked with the Cubs. Why? Neither had completely healed from surgery. I wish he was a "fast healer" who could win us 14 games, but I'm not betting even a quarter on it. Sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Yas, Person intrigues me as well, but history (Kerry Wood, Jon Lieber, etc) says that it takes a pitcher 2 full years to recover from the surgery Person had. I know it's been - how long? - about a year and a half? The point being that he's not completely ready or healthy. Maybe by midseason or so, but I wouldn't count on him making the team out of spring training - or making the team at all. Not at this point. I have to agree with you on that point. That's a perspective I failed to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Yas, A childhood friend of mine, is a pitcher in the Pirates organization. He could always bring it. I faced him in high school 12 times and I swear to God that I never saw the ball. It was a white blur. I whiffed every time. Anyhow, he had the Tommy John surgery 2 years ago, and he's just now getting back to his previous form. I've asked him why it takes so long, and he doesn't know either. For some reason, that's just the timetable for pitchers. With modern medicine, maybe that will speed up. But for now, it takes about 2 years. (On a side note, 3 months ago we were goofing off at the local Babe Ruth ballfield, and he pitched to me. I missed the first 20-25 or so pitches - badly, but then timed one just right and launched it about 500 feet into someone's front bay window. Oops. At least I finally hit something off his ass.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Yas, A childhood friend of mine, is a pitcher in the Pirates organization. He could always bring it. I faced him in high school 12 times and I swear to God that I never saw the ball. It was a white blur. I whiffed every time. Anyhow, he had the Tommy John surgery 2 years ago, and he's just now getting back to his previous form. I've asked him why it takes so long, and he doesn't know either. For some reason, that's just the timetable for pitchers. With modern medicine, maybe that will speed up. But for now, it takes about 2 years. (On a side note, 3 months ago we were goofing off at the local Babe Ruth ballfield, and he pitched to me. I missed the first 20-25 or so pitches - badly, but then timed one just right and launched it about 500 feet into someone's front bay window. Oops. At least I finally hit something off his ass.) Yes, I'm aware of the 2 year timetable for a complete return to form. As I said, it just never entered my mind prior to that post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Our 5th starter spot killed us last year. How many wins came from our 5th starters? 2 or 3? Ouch. I gotta believe that Rauch, Cotts, or whomever can at least win 7-10 games. As long as Danny Wrong isn't in the mix, I feel a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Our 5th starter spot killed us last year. How many wins came from our 5th starters? 2 or 3? Ouch. I gotta believe that Rauch, Cotts, or whomever can at least win 7-10 games. As long as Danny Wrong isn't in the mix, I feel a little better. So what happened to your theory about time and injured pitchers? That is exactly what happened to DW. He may be able to come back and give 14 wins .... again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Yas, Did Danny Wrong have surgery? I swear to you I didn't know that. You would think that all the time I spend researching Sox stuff, I would have remembered that. Did he have Tommy John surgery? I just remember him going 14-12 and saying, "Wow, he came out of nowhere." Then he collapsed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Yas, Did Danny Wrong have surgery? I swear to you I didn't know that. You would think that all the time I spend researching Sox stuff, I would have remembered that. Did he have Tommy John surgery? I just remember him going 14-12 and saying, "Wow, he came out of nowhere." Then he collapsed. He did have, if I recall, some type of surgery on his pitching arm or shoulder, but it wasn't TJ surgery. It was last off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 He did have, if I recall, some type of surgery on his pitching arm or shoulder, but it wasn't TJ surgery. It was last off season. He developed inflamation in his right elbow during spring training. I'm pretty sure they just rested him, I don't remember any surgery. He missed the entire first month and didn't come off the DL until May 8, making his first start the next night. He never looked right to me the whole year, he couldn't (or just didn't have the confidence to) snap his breaking ball. So he would dance around the plate, get behind the hitters and have to come right down the middle late in the count. The hitters would tee off. With a full year between him and the injury, I hope he can return to form and throw all his pitches for strikes. He had plenty of stuff to be a very good major league pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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