A decent Sox article in the Sun-Times today:

[CSF]

 

White Sox have many questions, few answers

 

January 25, 2004

 

BY CAROL SLEZAK SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

 

 

His designated hitter is incommunicado, presumably in a funk. His All-Star right fielder remains trade bait. His center fielder and second baseman are huge question marks. His starting pitching is at least one arm short of a rotation. And his team will be managed by a rookie.

 

 

 

It has been a tough offseason for White Sox general manager Ken Williams. The Sox were in a race for the American League Central title four months ago, but that team bears little resemblance to the current squad. That team had Roberto Alomar playing second base and Carl Everett playing center field (and, most important, hitting) down the stretch. That team had Bartolo Colon eating up innings all season long. All three players are gone now, lost to free agency. They haven't been replaced.

 

Failed manager Jerry Manuel is gone, too, replaced by Ozzie Guillen. And in November, while addressing the media for the first time as manager, Guillen singled out Frank Thomas for special criticism. And if you thought Guillen's comments were inappropriate -- or ill-timed, at least -- you're not the only one. Thomas, who is prone to funks, isn't returning team phone calls. Which, given his history, most assuredly means he is ticked off. So much for the concept of team chemistry, which Williams thinks is important to the Sox' prospects.

 

"I placed a couple of phone calls,'' Williams said. "I haven't heard back. But, hopefully, the big fella shows up at spring training and is ready to go. ... It is what it is.''

 

Another Thomas blowup is festering. One day soon, likely during spring training, he will explode. For his ego has been wounded again, this time by Guillen, who told the world that Thomas wasn't a team player.

 

Guillen has tried calling Thomas, too. To no avail. How can Guillen and Thomas, former teammates who didn't get along, coexist now? It's unlikely that they can. But perhaps because he has more pressing concerns than Thomas' moods or Guillen's mouth, Williams doesn't seem overly concerned, saying only, "We made overtures.''

 

And so they have, however halfhearted. Williams has yet to make any overtures to Magglio Ordonez, though. You remember Ordonez. He's the All-Star right fielder whose contract expires after this season. The guy the Sox want to unload before then, so they can get something in return. Because they're unlikely to spend to re-sign him. Because they're broke.

 

"[Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf] wants the best team that we can put out on the field,'' Williams said. "He's never run the operation for profit, [but he wants to] at least break even on this thing.''

 

So it's left to Williams, who desperately wants to win, to assemble a contender on a minuscule budget. A budget, he says, that he already has overshot. No, he's not worried about Ordonez, a professional who won't hold a grudge about being shopped around. And who has time to worry about a moody designated hitter's moods when there are so many holes to fill on the cheap? In lieu of Alomar, the Sox will play Willie Harris at second. In lieu of Everett, the Sox will play Aaron Rowand in center.

 

Maybe this is what Williams meant when he said the team needed more "grinders.'' Rowand, at least, certainly fits the description of an intense, energetic, team-first player. But, like Harris, he hasn't proved he's an every-day major-leaguer.

 

"Does it sting that we lost [Alomar and Everett]?'' Williams said. "Absolutely. But we gave it our best shot. Last [July], we were focused on adding, but we were depending on winning to produce a carry-over effect in revenue for this year. That didn't happen.''

 

So Williams has been forced to be creative. He signed a reclamation project, Robert Person, who once was a good pitcher but had arm surgery in 2002 and is a long shot to make the team. Danny Wright, Jon Rauch and Jason Grilli will join the battle for the Nos. 4 and 5 spots in the rotation. Colon, they are not.

 

But at least Williams has signed another closer. Or, to be precise, another pitcher who would like to be the closer. When he began shopping himself to major-league teams, 35-year-old Shingo Takatsu, the all-time saves leader in Japan, wanted a guarantee that he would be used as a closer. Williams said the Sox gave Takatsu no such guarantee. Billy Koch, who failed magnificently for the Sox last season, is the closer. (Unless Williams can get someone to take Koch's fat contract off his hands, that is.)

 

Takatsu, a newcomer to the United States who speaks little English, no doubt charmed Sox fans Friday when he said, "I want to make you happy in October.'' But Sox fans always have cared more about victories than charisma. In fact, they will embrace a sullen Thomas if he produces at the plate.

 

But if solid chemistry is important to winning and if, as Williams said, "Frank is a big piece of the [chemistry] puzzle,'' then Williams and Guillen should try harder to make peace with Thomas. Now. Or trade him. To avoid the inevitable spring-training blowup and the mess that inevitably will follow. Because it has been a tough offseason. The Sox can't afford anymore distractions.

 

 

Letters to our sports columnists appear Sunday. Send e-mail to [email protected]. Include your full name, hometown and a daytime phone number.

 

 

You see that, Jay. It is possible to write an article about the White Sox without being a complete and total asswipe.

[fattyguy78]

Pretty good article, pretty much summed it up, however she failed to mention the fact that Ordonez has not returned Williams calls either...

[Rex Hudler]

Pretty good article, pretty much summed it up, however she failed to mention the fact that Ordonez has not returned Williams calls either...

Did it mention that KW has called Maggs???

[C.Rector]

Typical Sleaze Hack column dwelling on the negative when it comes to the Sox and especially Frank Thomas. I can still remember one of her columns from last year in which she claimed that Frank had not made a "clutch hit" all year when in fact Frank had made several game-winning hits that year and that was before the All-Star break.

[southsideirish]

She, like most of the media, is not a big fan of Frank. I just hope this thing can get ironed out because we really need Frank's bat in the lineup.

[CSF]

Typical Sleaze Hack column dwelling on the negative when it comes to the Sox and especially Frank Thomas.  I can still remember one of her columns from last year in which she claimed that Frank had not made a "clutch hit" all year when in fact Frank had made several game-winning hits that year and that was before the All-Star break.

I didn't think she was too negative. She pointed out that to avoid a possible problem in ST, that Guillen & KW either need to resolve their differences with Frank or trade him. Besides, the negative info about the White Sox usually comes from her clueless colleauge.

[whitesox61382]

I think people are overexerating the lose of Everett and Alomar. They were here for about 2 months. Everett supplied some nice offense, but was a liability in the outfield. Alomar put up sub-par numbers with the Sox, including a .670 OPS and average D. I really don't see these two as huge loses. Colon, IMO, is the only big lose that hasn't been replaced to some degree. We are going to have to hope that either the veteran(Schoeneweis and Person) and/or the youngsters(Rauch, Diaz, Grille, Wright, Cotts, Pacheco) step up and help fill Colon's shoes. For once it would be nice if one of the Sox pitching prospects lived up to their hype.

[CSF]

I think people are overexerating the lose of Everett and Alomar. They were here for about 2 months. Everett supplied some nice offense, but was a liability in the outfield. Alomar put up sub-par numbers with the Sox, including a .670 OPS and average D. I really don't see these two as huge loses. Colon, IMO, is the only big lose that hasn't been replaced to some degree. We are going to have to hope that either the veteran(Schoeneweis and Person) and/or the youngsters(Rauch, Diaz, Grille, Wright, Cotts, Pacheco) step up and help fill Colon's shoes. For once it would be nice if one of the Sox pitching prospects lived up to their hype.

Ditto. It's ironic that none of our ballyhooed pitching prospects have panned out in the last 6-7 years, but the ace of the staff came via the 38th round.

[baggio202]

I think people are overexerating the lose of Everett and Alomar. They were here for about 2 months. Everett supplied some nice offense, but was a liability in the outfield. Alomar put up sub-par numbers with the Sox, including a .670 OPS and average D. I really don't see these two as huge loses. Colon, IMO, is the only big lose that hasn't been replaced to some degree. We are going to have to hope that either the veteran(Schoeneweis and Person) and/or the youngsters(Rauch, Diaz, Grille, Wright, Cotts, Pacheco) step up and help fill Colon's shoes. For once it would be nice if one of the Sox pitching prospects lived up to their hype.

its not the fact that we lost alomar and everett so much as it is that harris and rowand , who have both been given the opportunity to win the jobs at their respective positions before and failed , are again the prime candidates because we didnt make an effort to replace either guy...

 

you know we are loking at a long season when a one of our posters says , finally "a decent article on the sox "..and the title of the article is " white sox have many questions , few answers" :headshake

[Pastime]

"[Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf] wants the best team that we can put out on the field,'' Williams said. "He's never run the operation for profit, [but he wants to] at least break even on this thing.''

 

Bulls***. I just can't believe that for one single second. Once again - and I've debated this ad nauseum on this and other forums - if Reinsdorf wasn't profitting on the team, he would have sold the franchise years ago. He's an intelligent businessman and a corporate genius. He's owned the team for 25+ years, and if it was losing money, he would have dumped it. NO ONE is stupid enough to own a business entity for 25+ years that doesn't turn a profit, or just "breaks even." You don't become a corporate millionaire by owning "stagnant" business ventures.

 

So, in my stupid little opinion, Reinsdorf sits with his calculator and ledger and bases his payroll around how much profit he can expect to haul in - nothing more and nothing less. The whole "best team that we can field" crap is more rhetoric and bulls***. He should just be honest and say "best team that we can field where he can actually make money - piss on the team's record and piss on the fans."

 

"I would gladly trade the Bulls 6 championships for one World Series championship."

 

[baggio202]

"[Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf] wants the best team that we can put out on the field,'' Williams said. "He's never run the operation for profit, [but he wants to] at least break even on this thing.''

 

Bulls***.  I just can't believe that for one single second.  Once again - and I've debated this ad nauseum on this and other forums - if Reinsdorf wasn't profitting on the team, he would have sold the franchise years ago.  He's an intelligent businessman and a corporate genius.  He's owned the team for 25+ years, and if it was losing money, he would have dumped it.  NO ONE is stupid enough to own a business entity for 25+ years that doesn't turn a profit, or just "breaks even." You don't become a corporate millionaire by owning "stagnant" business ventures.

 

So, in my stupid little opinion, Reinsdorf sits with his calculator and ledger and bases his payroll around how much profit he can expect to haul in - nothing more and nothing less.  The whole "best team that we can field" crap is more rhetoric and bulls***.  He should just be honest and say "best team that we can field where he can actually make money - piss on the team's record and piss on the fans."

 

"I would gladly trade the Bulls 6 championships for one World Series championship."

 

good post...you know whats funny..if reinsey would just go all out and actually win a world series...he could then go back to his miserly ways and still reap the benefits of about 2.5 million fans a year...just one world series is all it would take..just to be able to say we got one and the scrubs dont... it would then be much easier to support a team like this one..

[fattyguy78]

Did it mention that KW has called Maggs???

This was mentioned a few days ago a few times actually...I believe it was either in the Takatsu introduction when he met the media or when KW was on ESPN 1000, he mentioned that he has tried to reach magglio and he also hasn't responded to phone calls...

[BrandoFan]

NO ONE is stupid enough to own a business entity for 25+ years that doesn't turn a profit, or just "breaks even." You don't become a corporate millionaire by owning "stagnant" business ventures.

 

If the best people can come up is the "25-year" arguement, then JR's case is looking strong:

 

1. Sox aren't just another business. It's a MAJOR city SPORTS franchise that made him famous beyond his wildest real estate-themed dreams. His name is uttered on every other thread here for crying out loud! He is also a HUGE baseball fan. Those two things combined are worth a few Mill losses a year ALONE, don't you think?

 

2. His sweet lease/tax issue has been debated to death, so I think it's entirely possible that he is keeping this franchise NOT because of some mythical profits but simply because it's a fairly LOW-RISK proposition-- if you aren't gonna lose much money owning a business even in the worst-case scenario AND that business just so happens to be a storied franchise in a big market, meaning the best-case scenario will prove to be quite lucrative....why the f*** NOT just keep on owning it? Jerry is getting up there in years, Brooklyn Dodgers are not coming back in the foreseeable future....Sox don't need to be a profit machine to be of VALUE to HIM. Far from it.

 

3. So why doesn't he just go on a spending spree losses be damned? Well, because he doesn't OWE Sox fans anything AND because he has majority-holding partners to answer to. Try to understand that.

 

4. Even if we forget about the tax/lease double whammy that protects the Chairman from the ruthless economic reality and Sox fans' moodiness/spending whims and about the sentimental value of owning a team.......The fact that the VALUE of this franchise has been increasing many times over in the last 25 years, in spite of the team's mediocre performance and waning fan interest, alone means it's definately WORTH owning.....But he CAN'T spend that money on payroll for obvious reasons.

 

5. You say everyone knows MLB owners are making out like bandits.....Are they, though? I am sure Yankees and a few others are....But are the Sox? Since we have established that it's possible/probable that JR would have the incentive to keep owning this team for 25 years WITHOUT seeing great returns that could be converted into extra payroll AND we agree that he is entitled to at least BREAK EVEN (or show some minimal profit for his partners whose mistresses gotta eat) year in and out, I guess the only way for you, Pastime, to convince Great Sox Fandom that the mediocre payroll is the Evil Chairman's fault rather than their OWN is to produce HARD EVIDENCE proving beyond the benefit of the doubt that he is sitting on a mountain of spendable cash. Afterall, since *everyone* knows all JR excuses are nothing more than Rhetoric of Greed, it shouldn't be hard to do.

 

And NO, knee-jerk fallacy-ridden agruements along the lines of "why would he keep the Sox for 25 years if he wasn't gettin' rich off of it?" will not do.

[whitesox61382]

its not the fact that we lost alomar and everett so much as it is that harris and rowand , who have both been given the opportunity to win the jobs at their respective positions  before and failed , are again the prime candidates because we didnt make an effort to replace either guy...

 

you know we are loking at a long season when a one of our posters says , finally "a decent article on the sox "..and the title of the article is " white sox have many questions , few answers"  :headshake

Baggio, what is your solution to the holes at 2B and CF? Remember that you have no money to spend. Once again your grudge blinds you from reality. What happens if Harris puts up a .670 OPS next year(the same as Alomar) with solid D, which isn't that unrealistic. I disagree with you in regards to Rowand. When was he given a chance to prove himself, and please don't say the beginning of last year when he was coming back from his career threating injury. Rowand has a very respectable career OPS of .743. You might want to think about rooting for the Yankees, because thats the only team with a unlimited payroll and who can afford to put an AS at every position. "Normal" teams have to develop their own talent and can't afford an AS at every position. As long as you hold your grudge, you won't be able to view Sox management realistic(and more specificly KW). The fact is that there wasn't much that KW could do to replace Alomar and Everett, and you need to let your youngsters play if you want them to develop. This might include some struggles, but you have to be patient.

[baggio202]

Baggio, what is your solution to the holes at 2B and CF? Remember that you have no money to spend. Once again your grudge blinds you from reality. What happens if Harris puts up a .670 OPS next year(the same as Alomar) with solid D, which isn't that unrealistic. I disagree with you in regards to Rowand. When was he given a chance to prove himself, and please don't say the beginning of last year when he was coming back from his career threating injury. Rowand has a very respectable career OPS of .743. You might want to think about rooting for the Yankees, because thats the only team with a unlimited payroll and who can afford to put an AS at every position. "Normal" teams have to develop their own talent and can't afford an AS at every position. As long as you hold your grudge, you won't be able to view Sox management realistic(and more specificly KW). The fact is that there wasn't much that KW could do to replace Alomar and Everett, and you need to let your youngsters play if you want them to develop. This might include some struggles, but you have to be patient.

you really dont get my point...you keep thinking this is blind hatred...i supported kenny williams whe he was first hired..i went on the toronto baords and defended the wells trade...eventhough i thought the premise was stupid..i was giving him the benefit of the doubt...i applaulded him on the marte deal , still do..i liked the colon move , i said last year any move williams makes to bring in veterans in to help the team win i was for it..i loved the everett deal and think we should have kept him..

 

i dont buy the arguement about a small payroll because other teams including minnesota in our division have gone to the playoffs with a smaller budget..if the budget is so small how do you explain that???

 

i have a philosophical difference with how kenny williams builds a team...and i believe it cant work for us year in and year out...he believes in trying to lock up home grown talent between years 3-6..regaurdless of position...getting them to take less for long term deals...i dont agree with that..

 

corner players i let go to arbitration...then either trade them or let them walk and get draft picks for them...it cost too much for players that dont play key roles...so where would i be??...way ahead on these guys..konerko would be making practically nothing this year..koch too...ordonez i dont think would get 14 million in arbitration either...i might end up paying lee more..

 

starting pitching, he did good locking up buehrle..i would i could have done the same...no one else on that staff thats under six year should have a long term deal...

 

the money i saved would have been spent up the middle..durham would still be here..he wanted to stay here and is the only veteran that left that i emember didnt have a bad thing to say about sox management...they wernt that far off in money..probably about a million a year if reports where right in '02..and id still have money to go the free agent market to get another player up the middle..irod perhaps last year..how much better would last years team had been with irod , durham added to the beginning roster???

 

i dont have blind hatred for KW..outside of the sox he's probably a good guy... my next door neighbor's a great guy too but i wouldnt want him running the white sox...

KW doesnt do a good job..and the sox records bears that out...

 

what can we do about rowand and harris now???...nothing, we are stuck...of course you dont see that as KW's fault

[whitesox61382]

What is your point, because it doesn't seem that you are making it clear?

 

The difference between the Sox and the Twins is a strong minor league system. I have stated many times that the key to sucess when you have a limited payroll is a strong minor league system. The Sox built a strong minor league system, but most of the top prospects failed to deliever. Is that KW's fault? Not really. You keep pointing to Minnesota and Oakland, but those teams aren't the norm they are the exception. The majority of small-mid payroll teams struggle to reach .500, and this is the simple point that I am trying to make. While it isn't impossible to contend(and even win the WS), but the odds are staked against you.

 

The one thing I agree with you to some degree on is that this team currently isn't heading in a specific direction. I like the fact that KW has taken some chances and tried to put a contender on the field despite a limited payroll. You can argue that this team should go with a youth movement, but the problem is that the Sox system has been very weak the past couple of years, especially in the upper minors, which makes it hard to do a young movement. Furthermore, if the Sox do go with a youth movement, than I think the fan support might fall to a level that can't be saved. This is why KW is in a tough situation. He wants to contend, but he doesn't have much money to spend and a weak minor league system to fill holes.

 

"corner players i let go to arbitration...then either trade them or let them walk and get draft picks for them...it cost too much for players that dont play key roles...so where would i be??...way ahead on these guys..konerko would be making practically nothing this year..koch too...ordonez i dont think would get 14 million in arbitration either...i might end up paying lee more.."

 

Unfortunately this philosophy doesn't work. If you trade or let every decent player walk(because they cost too much), than you will be in an endless cycle of struggles(see Montreal Expos). How do you figure that Konerko would be making practically nothing? Do you understand how arbitration works? If KW would have let Konerko go to arbitration he would probably be making close to what he will get now. Same goes for Koch and Ordonez. Arbitration usually rules in favor of the players.

 

I agree that keeping Durham would have been nice, but I don't think you have a good understand of how arbitration works. Players like Koch, Konerko, and Ordonez would probably have similar salaries if taken to arbitration, which doesn't save the Sox much money, especially enough to sign someone like Durham AND IRod. I agree that a team should be strong up the middle, but solid players up the middle are fairly rare.

 

If this team tanks the 1st half, than look for the white flag part 2 to take place. Give this team a chance. It isn't as talented on paper as the last couple, but what have those talented teams gotten the Sox. The Central is extremely weak and any of the 3 teams could win the division, so at least give this team some time. If the Sox get to the playoffs, with the tough situation that KW was put in this offseason, than I think he should get some credit and respect. We will have to wait and see.

[YASNY]

i have a philosophical difference with how kenny williams builds a team...and i believe it cant work for us year in and year out...he believes in trying to lock up home grown talent between years 3-6..regaurdless of position...getting them to take less for long term deals...i dont agree with that..

 

Honestly Baggs, what choice does KW have when it comes to this? He has to try and keep payroll down so he CAN add players from time to time.

[Harry Chappas]

Honestly Baggs, what choice does KW have when it comes to this?  He has to try and keep payroll down so he CAN add players from time to time.

Payroll isn't kept down by paying Konerko, Koch, Ordonez and Valentin $33.5M in 2004. Without these four we could overpay for Colon, Maddux and Everett and still have money left over.

[Steff]

OMG Carol.... For the LAST damn time.. Ozzie did NOT call Frank out.. !!

 

 

 

:banghead :banghead

[Guest JimH]

OMG Carol.... For the LAST damn time.. Ozzie did NOT call Frank out.. !!

 

 

 

:banghead  :banghead

I'm thinking southsideirish doesn't get the sarcasm or hopefully, is choosing not to respond to it ...

[Steff]

I'm thinking southsideirish doesn't get the sarcasm or hopefully, is choosing not to respond to it ... 

I'm betting on the first one...

[BrandoFan]

If the best people can come up is the "25-year" arguement, then JR's case is looking strong:

 

1. Sox aren't just another business.  It's a MAJOR city SPORTS franchise that made him famous beyond his wildest real estate-themed dreams.    His name is uttered on every other thread here for crying out loud!    He is also a HUGE baseball fan.   Those two things combined are worth a few Mill losses a year ALONE,  don't you think? 

 

2.  His sweet lease/tax issue has been debated to death, so I think it's entirely possible that he is keeping this franchise NOT because of some mythical profits but simply because it's a fairly LOW-RISK proposition--  if you aren't gonna lose much money owning a business even in the worst-case scenario AND that business just so happens to be a storied franchise in a big market, meaning the best-case scenario will prove to be quite lucrative....why the f*** NOT just keep on owning it?  Jerry is getting up there in years, Brooklyn Dodgers are not coming back in the foreseeable future....Sox don't need to be a profit machine to be of VALUE to HIM.   Far from it.

 

3.  So why doesn't he just go on a spending spree losses be damned?  Well, because he doesn't OWE Sox fans anything AND because he has majority-holding partners to answer to.   Try to understand that.

 

4.  Even if we forget about the tax/lease double whammy that protects the Chairman from the ruthless economic reality and Sox fans' moodiness/spending whims and about the sentimental value of owning a team.......The fact that the VALUE of this franchise has been increasing many times over in the last 25 years, in spite of the team's mediocre performance and waning fan interest, alone means it's definately WORTH owning.....But he CAN'T spend that money on payroll for obvious reasons.

 

5.  You say everyone knows MLB owners are making out like bandits.....Are they, though?  I am sure Yankees  and a few others are....But are the Sox?   Since we have established that it's possible/probable that JR would have the incentive to keep owning this team for 25 years WITHOUT seeing great returns that could be converted into extra payroll AND we agree that he is entitled to at least BREAK EVEN (or show some minimal profit for his partners whose mistresses gotta eat) year in and out, I guess the only way for you, Pastime, to convince Great Sox Fandom that the mediocre payroll is the Evil Chairman's fault rather than their OWN is to produce HARD EVIDENCE proving beyond  the benefit of the doubt that he is sitting on a mountain of spendable cash.  Afterall, since *everyone* knows all JR excuses are nothing more than Rhetoric of Greed, it shouldn't be hard to do.

 

And NO,  knee-jerk fallacy-ridden agruements along the lines of  "why would he keep the Sox for 25 years if he wasn't gettin' rich off of it?"  will not  do.

No hard evidence... yet, eh?

 

Hell, I'll settle for flacid evidence at this point. Anything.

 

 

OT: My favorite emoticon has triumphantly returned! Oh happy days.

[YASNY]

Payroll isn't kept down by paying Konerko, Koch, Ordonez and Valentin $33.5M in 2004.  Without these four we could overpay for Colon, Maddux and Everett and still have money left over.

OK, let's look at it.

 

Konerko: Signed the long term deal after the 2002 All Star season. Williams was stupid not being able to see into the future and anticipate Konerko would have a career worst season.

 

Valentin: Has been a solid, decent ballplayer for 4 years with the Sox. His option had to be picked up, since we have no other power from the left side. Personally, I think Jose is worth his salary to this team.

 

Ordonez: When Maggs was signed, the market was different than it is now. There was nothing dumb about this signing.

 

Koch: Again, Kenny failed to look into crystal ball and see a guy that went from AL relief pitcher of the year to having a terrible year.

 

Hindsight is 20-20.