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Guest wsc425

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well wouldnt it be a bit easier and less gender trashing if you said something like silly, stupid, moron, jackass, or whatever.. why does everything have to be gay, f*****, frutie or whatever.........closed minds need to come up with new creative ways without offending everyone by their race or gender .......dont ya think............

Thank you HSC, that is my thinking too.

 

Any insult based on what is essential to another person is a form of hate speech as unintended as that may be claimed.

 

To say, "I don't mean it that way," then don't use it all. There are a whole lot more creative things to say that do not demean what is the essence or basic to another person.

 

No one is so naive as to not realize that using the word gay as a synonym for stupid has a whole lot of implications, because what is the origin of the intended insult?

 

What I really didn't get in this thread either was that every Sox fan has a list of nicknames that we call the players - hell, we revel in it given Hawk's way of speaking. All the really hip and in-crowd cool people on these boards call Jose Valentin "Manos" for reasons that still escape me. All that WSC did was make actually post a list of nicknames, and he got put down for it. That makes no sense. Especially on a message board where everyone goes by a nickname talking about a team where everyone has nicknames.

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I've always been partial to asshole and jagoff myself  :D

i love jag off myself ..it fit so many situations :headbang

Cubkilla and Bags,

 

as far as I can tell, the phrase "jag off" is a purely Chicago phrase. The rest of the country refers to "jack offs." Have no idea why Chicago says it so uniquely, but its usage linguistically is pretty local.

 

This is too much thinking academically this early in the day.

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I've always been partial to asshole and jagoff myself  :D

i love jag off myself ..it fit so many situations :headbang

Cubkilla and Bags,

 

as far as I can tell, the phrase "jag off" is a purely Chicago phrase. The rest of the country refers to "jack offs." Have no idea why Chicago says it so uniquely, but its usage linguistically is pretty local.

 

This is too much thinking academically this early in the day.

I would say you're right. I moved down here to Kentucky from Chicago Ridge when I was 18. The people down here never use the term.

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I've always been partial to asshole and jagoff myself  :D

i love jag off myself ..it fit so many situations :headbang

Cubkilla and Bags,

 

as far as I can tell, the phrase "jag off" is a purely Chicago phrase. The rest of the country refers to "jack offs." Have no idea why Chicago says it so uniquely, but its usage linguistically is pretty local.

 

This is too much thinking academically this early in the day.

really i didn't know about that. i am going to find out where i live how it is said.

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Well, hsc, in light of us not getting along very well I must thank you for responding in such civilized manner about such a sensitive topic. I do use the "f" word at times (once it was actually to a gay person) but Im hardly the worst. Other teens use it as their sole insult, I do use other words as has been seen. Its something about the latest generation that is unchangeable, sadly. Also, even tho Im not exactly pro-gay, Im hardly the most anti gay person either. I would not hang around a gay person or support him but I no longer go out of my way to belittle them like I used to. But, in summary, the words f** and gay will inevitably be used by my generation to desribe stupidity, whether we like it or not.

 

And cw, the word manos is Spanish for hands. The nickname makes a joke about all the fielding errors Jose makes. Unless someone else proves differently this is what I believe it means...

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I would not hang around a gay person or support him but I no longer go out of my way to belittle them like I used to. But, in summary, the words f** and gay will inevitably be used by my generation to desribe stupidity, whether we like it or not.

Why would you deny yourself a friend? More to the point, you have friends right now you are gay but they are not out to themselves yet perhaps, or more likely to you. And the question is not what you support - a person is what a person is. Do you support tall people or short people? What is important is that you are a friend to your friends, and not to live life in judgment of others as you do not want to be judged.

 

If your generation uses words like that that often, I have lost some respect for them.

 

The explanation of Manos makes sense to me. I usually refer to him as E6.

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WSC425: From what I know as a 12 year die-hard White Sox fan, Mark Buehrle is sometimes called BurlyMon.

 

Jon Garland: Jon Jon or Jon Boy

 

Joe Crede: I call Mean Joe Crede...could be Little Joe

 

Joe Borchard: Mean Joe Borchard...could be Big Joe

 

Danny Wright: Didn't you mean Danno as in "Book'em Danno"?

 

Bartolo Colon: I think he needs to get a bunch of White Sox wins before we start calling him Savior.

 

Billy Koch: Billy The Kid by some A's fans

 

Sandy Alomar: I don't know a nickname for Sandi but I respect him very much

 

Why does D'angelo Jimenez get called a name that has something to do with accidents? That sounds more like a name for Aaron Rowand since he tends to crash into walls & fly off cliffs on dirtbikes.

 

Kelly Wunsch: I call The Wunschmiester sometimes. I like Sidewinder too.

 

I don't Rauch that well & forget his first name, but isn't it Jon also...He could be Big Bad Jon. I do know that he's the tallest Major League pitcher ever & a pretty darn good prospect too.

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I would not hang around a gay person or support him but I no longer go out of my way to belittle them like I used to. But, in summary, the words f** and gay will inevitably be used by my generation to desribe stupidity, whether we like it or not.

Why would you deny yourself a friend? More to the point, you have friends right now you are gay but they are not out to themselves yet perhaps, or more likely to you. And the question is not what you support - a person is what a person is. Do you support tall people or short people? What is important is that you are a friend to your friends, and not to live life in judgment of others as you do not want to be judged.

 

If your generation uses words like that that often, I have lost some respect for them.

 

The explanation of Manos makes sense to me. I usually refer to him as E6.

roman...10% of the people in the world are gay..trust me..whether you want to or not...your hanging out with them...you just dont know it...

 

awesome..if people give jimenez a nickname refering to an accident its because of the car wreck he had a few years back

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Guest hotsoxchick1
Well, hsc, in light of us not getting along very well I must thank you for responding in such civilized manner about such a sensitive topic. I do use the "f" word at times (once it was actually to a gay person) but Im hardly the worst. Other teens use it as their sole insult, I do use other words as has been seen. Its something about the latest generation that is unchangeable, sadly. Also, even tho Im not exactly pro-gay, Im hardly the most anti gay person either. I would not hang around a gay person or support him but I no longer go out of my way to belittle them like I used to. But, in summary, the words f** and gay will inevitably be used by my generation to desribe stupidity, whether we like it or not.

 

And cw, the word manos is Spanish for hands. The nickname makes a joke about all the fielding errors Jose makes. Unless someone else proves differently this is what I believe it means...

roman we may not get along on here and im most certian we would not get along too well in person , which is a shame cause i see the fiesty in you that was much in me at that same age.....anyhow... i have to ask you one thing.... on these boards how do you know if one is gay or not??? you obvisouly dont, because if you were aware of that then you would realize that one of your biggest backers happens to be the very thing you wouldnt befriend............why shut out anyone because of the way they are??? there are alot of cool people out there in the world and you shouldnt judge them based on what they do or believe or stuff like their religioin, race ect. ect. (you get my drift)....i for one am not gay, but i do support a few friends who are....they are amoung the best of my friends and i wouldnt have it any other way.....i have come to know a mix of people on these and other boards.. in person... i have guys like cwsox who enjoys lifes experiences and makes you enjoy them too, guys like baggs who will be there to lend a helping hand when called upon, guys like rps who will give it to you like it is and keep you on your toes...each and everyone of them have their own unique personality and offer their own lifes experiences which i am thankful for, because it makes me a much more rounded person knowing each and every one of them... i dont care if they are gay or not or if they only like certian types of chicks or whatever.. our love for the sox brought us together and our unique ways that compliment eachother in one way or another keeps us together............i guess the point im trying to make is dont knock someone untill you get to know them.. you may be surprised at what you find................ :D

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Well, hsc, in light of us not getting along very well I must thank you for responding in such civilized manner about such a sensitive topic. I do use the "f" word at times (once it was actually to a gay person) but Im hardly the worst. Other teens use it as their sole insult, I do use other words as has been seen. Its something about the latest generation that is unchangeable, sadly. Also, even tho Im not exactly pro-gay, Im hardly the most anti gay person either. I would not hang around a gay person or support him but I no longer go out of my way to belittle them like I used to. But, in summary, the words f** and gay will inevitably be used by my generation to desribe stupidity, whether we like it or not.

 

And cw, the word manos is Spanish for hands. The nickname makes a joke about all the fielding errors Jose makes. Unless someone else proves differently this is what I believe it means...

roman we may not get along on here and im most certian we would not get along too well in person , which is a shame cause i see the fiesty in you that was much in me at that same age.....anyhow... i have to ask you one thing.... on these boards how do you know if one is gay or not??? you obvisouly dont, because if you were aware of that then you would realize that one of your biggest backers happens to be the very thing you wouldnt befriend............why shut out anyone because of the way they are??? there are alot of cool people out there in the world and you shouldnt judge them based on what they do or believe or stuff like their religioin, race ect. ect. (you get my drift)....i for one am not gay, but i do support a few friends who are....they are amoung the best of my friends and i wouldnt have it any other way.....i have come to know a mix of people on these and other boards.. in person... i have guys like cwsox who enjoys lifes experiences and makes you enjoy them too, guys like baggs who will be there to lend a helping hand when called upon, guys like rps who will give it to you like it is and keep you on your toes...each and everyone of them have their own unique personality and offer their own lifes experiences which i am thankful for, because it makes me a much more rounded person knowing each and every one of them... i dont care if they are gay or not or if they only like certian types of chicks or whatever.. our love for the sox brought us together and our unique ways that compliment eachother in one way or another keeps us together............i guess the point im trying to make is dont knock someone untill you get to know them.. you may be surprised at what you find................ :D

Oh boy, Id rather not take any guesses at who that could be and Ill just leave it at that.

 

But as for me saying I would not support a gay person, let me try to explain this a little better. I will set up my friends with female friends of mine, unless of course, I wanna try to set myself up first. I would not do so with a gay person however. I dont know any gay people (or atleast they arent my friends) but if I did I would warn him real strict that I want no part in his relationships. And as a teen peer pressure is a big influence on me. Here I am in a crowd of anti gay people (some whom I must say I despise more than the gay kid) and over there is the gay kid. I used to be with others in calling him out on it but now I say nothing. If anyone asks about it Ill give a nod or something but I no longer really care.

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Guest hotsoxchick1

i think i got that............or at least im trying to get it... i can understand peer pressure.. but let me tell you this as i tell my kids all the time....you are an individual...do not let everyone influence you into doing something 1. you know is wrong 2. you dont want to do 3. you think will harm yourself or someone else (wether it be physically or mentaly) 4. treat everyone with the same respect you wish to be treated with5. if you have to do something to impress friends then they are not worth having as friends, because good friends will accept you as you are and not for what stupid s*** you are willing to do.........i also let them know that they may not always be the popular kids at school but thats ok.. i expect them to do their best with their studies because thats what they are there for in the first place....and let me give you this little outlook on life from an older persons perspective.....all those guys and girls who were hot in school... the cheerleaders and football players ect....well .. i just had my 20 year reunion a couple of years ago... and they were all the fat bald or heafty housewives with 10 kids... all the nerdy guys at school were the ones who showed up in the nice cars and are the ceo's of big corporations, still had all their hair and were lookin fine... the fat bald football players are plumbers and construction workers and such....(not that theres anything wrong with that but...) do you get what im trying to tell ya here............nothing ever seems or turns out to be what you think it will..............

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Point 1.  I dont know any gay people (or atleast they arent my friends) but if I did I would warn him real strict that I want no part in his relationships.

 

Point 2.And as a teen peer pressure is a big influence on me. Here I am in a crowd of anti gay people (some whom I must say I despise more than the gay kid) and over there is the gay kid. I used to be with others in calling him out on it but now I say nothing. If anyone asks about it Ill give a nod or something but I no longer really care.

Point 1 - you miss the point, that baggio and HSC and I have made, you do know gay people, its not like the wear rainbow flags on their foreheads so you know who they are. People are people. Andf what makes you think any gay guy would want you in a relationship? :D You think you turn both the girls and the boys on? :) That is a very common ego fallacy (phallic-cy) of nervous insecure straight guys, that gays will be attracted to them - hell, they ain't good enough! :D

 

Point 2 - make you own friends. Peer pressure and groups are for s***. I have not always lived my life well but I was smart enough early on to make friends with whoever I thought was interesting. In high school I had greaser friends, dooper (collegiate) friends, sat with the rowdies at the football games and had friends who were geeks, top of the class, jocks, and drop outs, and the Youth for Christ kids and the hippies (in my day we had real hippies) and long hairs and straights (which meant then not hippies) and dealers. Close friends in the military and close friends in the peace movement.

 

The point of having friends is who enhances my life, not pleasing some group that delights in putting down others outside of the group. In fact, people who put down others, I wouldn't hang with. That is a firm rule of mine still. I have friends, straight and gay, with wild and numerous body piercings and friends who are very conservative accountants and I treasure them all. Variety, that is what makes life fun.

 

Our tailgates at Comiskey - everyone is welcome and stays welcome as long as they don't leech off the rest of us. I am glad they feel that way since I am the oldest one of the regulars, I think. We would probably agree on very little; if you read the MLB boards, you'd see that on non Sox things the gulf is wide on a lot of things. But it is the very diversity of the people that makes it wild and fun and so life enhancing.

 

And the internet Sox friends have met my Chicago Sox friends who I go back with 38 years now in one case and just a few years shy of that with others. It is great to have friends still close to after all these years - and that's because we never conformed to group or peer expectations, just did our thing because we became friends apart from groups.

 

If anyone thought you were a f***, no one would be taking the time to share with you. You have the potential to be a very cool adult (or you can be a closed narrow minded s*** and no one wants that for you).

 

I am sure a secure group is comfortable for someone who has moved as much as you have. But f*** no :fyou to any group that exists to define themselves apart from others, and takes humor in putting down others.

 

Some day you have to face the question of what happens when someone you least expect says to you they are gay, or a trans sexual, or an atheist, or a wiccan, or the teen father of 4 children by 4 women, or a druggie that you never knew they dropped, snorted, or shot up. What do you - reject them? Give them lectures? Lay down ground rules? Or be their friend as always, no change?

 

You don't look at the differences buddy, you look at what you have in common. I go out of my way to make friends with people very different than me - which means I can get along with anyone, very comforting in new situations - because as different as they are, the more diverse my friends, the more possibilities for fun in life because their perspectives may be different. And just because someone else does something doesn't meaan I have to do it with them, there are other things we can do together if there is something that I do not want to do that they do. But then you find that the differences are minor as opposed to what is had in common.

 

And it makes you a better person.

 

Last of the advice, kid, which is always boring and stupid from someone like me, my age. And I have probably bored myself and a bunch of others on here. But the last of my advice for you my friend - I have screwed up much in my life, but I got the friend thing right. And I have survived because of my friends, people who love me and who I love because we bond, not because they fit a group expectation or were approved by some peer group that sat in judgment. I will say no more.

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Whether it means anything or not....I'm not pro-gay or anti-gay....but if I had a friend that was gay, I would just basically tell him the same thing that roman would tell his friend....that he doesn't want to get a part in any of the relationships, or atleast physically....I would have my word in his/her relationships maybe, as he/she would probably mine, but I wouldn't want to mix with his/her boy/girlfriend physically...I think you understand what I'm saying.

 

I had a teacher at my middle school who was gay....that is the only person I know personally that is actually gay. I think I know who a couple people are on here that are gay, but I'm not going to make any guesses on the board and I don't think anyone else should either....it's just wrong.

 

Regardless....someone being gay shouldn't matter....they either are or they aren't. I believe Reggie White said something like homosexuality is not a race, but is rather a choice. Kind of like a choice between which sports teams you want to cheer for or what job you want to do or which retirement home you want to live in....that kind of choice. It may or may not have a big impact on your life. I'm not going to verbally abuse someone because they are gay....it's just wrong. If someone wants to be gay, that's fine....I personally don't want to be gay.

 

I think I've done enough rambling for this time around. Friends are what matter most in life.....regardless of what type of person they are.

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orinetation is no more a choice than height or eye color or gender or race. It is something a person is born with.

 

Reggie White was full of s*** about it being a choice. No one chooses to be something so hated by others and society. It is a given.

 

Back in the day there was the struggle for civil rights for people of color, and then for equality across gender lines, and now across orientation (not choice!) lines. Just the struggle to have people accepted as people and keep alive the promises of our Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

 

If you are born straight, embrace it, God bless you, and life your life with confidence in what you are. If you are born gay or lesbian, embrace it, God bless you, and life your life with confidence in what you are. That is what it is all about.

 

No need to ask about others or wonder, it is a private matter for all, and no one else's business, except when put downs happen. Then it is all of our business, to end the put downs. End of story.

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:)  = me

:angry:  :angry:  :angry:  :angry:  = most of the MTv pop culture dumbass stupid s*** motherf***ing cockdong unoriginal sons of beeyotches

 

:fyou  = me to them

 

Do that, be who you are with who you want and that's all that f***ing matters, yo.

gees, and all evening I was watching MTV's Battle of the Sexes: Road Rules and Real World.

 

It was dumbass stupid s*** motherf***ing cockdong unoriginal sons of beeyotches at their best, and damned entertaining! I can't wait until the f***ing asshole Puck gets his, and that b**** on the women's team, I think she gets thrown by the inner circle next show!

 

:D

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physco...ill just add this...you said when your friends start ragging on gays you dont join in anymore you jsut say nothing...thats a move i nthe right direction...but you now got a chance to take it a step further...next time your friends are giving these kids a hard time you might want to consider trying to steer them in another direction...thats a big step and one you might not be ready for but its one if you want to grow into being a person of honor ,character and strength you will have to make someday..

 

 

it will be tough on you if you do it...there is no telling how your friends will react..they might make fun of you..call you gay..or even stop hanging with you...so you wou would have to be ready for that...

 

i can honestly say when i was your age i didnt and wouldnt have had the courage to do that myself...i never raged on others but i never came to thier defense either..its something i learned later in life but wish i had learned earlier...its something i try and teach my kids..to stand up for those that are the underdog..or are in a situation where they are so outnumbered they have no chance to defend themselves...when my sons do do the right thing im so proud of them because i know they are learning these lessons at a much younger age then i did..and will be that much farter along them i was when they go out on their own...hopefully it makes their path to success a little easier then mine was..or still is..

 

by doing this does not mean you are gay or even support the idea of being gay..it just means you are supporting people treating each other with respect and dignity...acting man enough to realize the whole world is not going to always think like you do and thats not always a bad thing....

 

you took a step in the right direction...i hope you have the courage to someday carry it even further...

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Guest Ncorgbl

cwsox, you rang my bell!

 

Most of my friends that have kids forget what it's like to be a kid. The problems they have we take for granted, yet they are the biggest dilema that the kid has faced yet. Teenagers start handling their own problems, Daddy can't help much anymore except with advice, and if the advice is given as my Father gave it, it didn't register. His advice may have been sound, but his presentation was that my problems as a teenager were not important, didn't mean anything, and/or were just stupid. They may have been, but at that age they were important to me.

 

Teens today feel no different. Parents and adults in general are out of touch, don't understand. Yet they went through the exact same things as their teens are now. Wanna get through to your kids? Like everything else on this planet, put yourself in their shoes. Think about your teen years before you advise your teenager.

 

OldRoman/psycho,

 

My best friend (still, to this day) and I were 'Greasers' in the middle to late 60s, Class of 68'. I had skipped a year, and both of us were NHS, Honour students. We were the only Greaser Honour Students in the school of over 4,000. Peer pressure was intense with 'Greasers' vs 'doopers'/collegiates/hippies, cigarette smoking, gangs(we all hung on some corner, and we'd occasionally have gang fights with antennas, chains and knives) the very beginnings of drugs, racial prejudices that gave us 2 or more school riots a year, and of course, girls. It was a great time to be a teen! By our junior and senior years, we were known by everyone, including the Chicago Police that were assigned to our school. Officer Harris would greet us every day with "The Good guys, I know you're doin' wrong, and I'm gonna catch you, sooner or later". He never did. We ran a car wash for the teachers, getting a pass and taking their cars to my house to throw a bucket of water on it, and then cruise the all girls school nearby. We had syndicated, police protected gambling on all 4 floors of our school that paid us a perentage of every game. Dice and cards in the boys rooms, and matching quarters on every hall guard post. Our Mothers gave us $1.00 a day which covered bus and lunch in the cafeteria, but we rode in cars and ate at arestaurant nearby. (It was Greek owned, and turned out to be a distant relative who called my Mom and told her. she asked how we did it and I answered, "Mom, you don't want to know", and she left it be). We were Leaders, not followers. We set the style, we decided who was 'in' and who wasn't. We had Black friends and gay friends and doopers and hippie friends. We had Latino friends and some of the worst real 'gangster' friends you could imagine. We feared no one except our fathers, not even the police, unless it led to our fathers! Why? Because we used our brains, even at that age. No one ever asked us how we wanted to be born, what colour, what background, what preferences, so how could that possibly be a criteria for judgung someone? We judged people by how they acted. If they were Jagoffs, we treated them that way. Our friends who did bash blacks or gays or Latinos or anyone different did it out of ignorance, and fear. We educated them. Once educated, they no longer feared them. Fear is always the result of ignorance. If you don't understand someone who is 'gay' or black or just different, you fear them and then bash them to protect yourself. Does that sound bright to you? The next time you have the urge to 'go along with the crowd', think. Would you rather be a leader, or a follower? Leaders think. Leaders learn. Leaders explore. Leaders then lead.

 

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Thank you all, your words have touched me, thanks...

 

But as for the whole race versus choice idea, that used to be my problem. I used to think that homosexuality was a choice, not a race. To mental retardation was a race so I never picked on them because I knew that was out of their control and I could only feel sorry for them. But I saw gays and just thought you cant be born that way, you have to make that choice. When I finally learned differently I stopped any kind of discrimination...

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I'm gonna sound off on this one because I been drinkin' rye again so I feel like peachin'. Jagg Off is a pretty common saying in small town Canada so if it was born out of Chicago then Bravo. What most likely popularized it was Joe Pesci movies. He says it all the time in movies and since mob is often a Chicago thing in movies perhaps that makes sence.

 

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think that the gay men you come across want anything to do with you in "a relationship way". Being 15 it is likely not even certain what your sexuality will be anyhow. Elton John was married :huh: . Seriously though I think the word gay has taken to mean "lame" in most contexts used, for better or for worse.

 

 

I have a question about the 10% stat that always gets thrown around, I know a few gay men and women and to my parents credit was raised to not even make any distinction between anyone. My best friend is so much the most homophobic person I know, almost paranoid, my uncle the same, it's a shame because no gay people I know would care to spend more than 3 seconds with either of them anyway. My best friend in elementary school was from a wild family of chauvanist and tough guys and what not. His uncle was married, got divorced and what not, couple years later came out of the closit to my mom who pretty much knew and we were like...... yeah and? His family pretty much disowned him so he keeps in contact with us more now(they're comming around I hope, but pretty s***ty on the guy) it is a shame that people expect a negative reaction from society towards gay. Most older gay men I know are always shocked that I don't react strangely around them, it would be a s*** like being surprized when somebody doesn't hate you without any cause. Back to the point though I do have doubts about the ten precent stat, because of 100 people I know I can guarentee less than 10 of them are gay. I like in redneck whitetrash Alberta(exactly the same as Montana for some peoples attitudes) so that would certainly encourage many to hide it but even withstanding that of the people I know not about 2% are openly gay and I just don't see the evidence that 5 times that are in the closit. Our high School of 700 would be hard pressed to find 70 homosexuals. Being a small town I can honestly say that I knew personally over 500 of those kids and didn't know 50 gays, even withstanding the many that don't want that known. So finally in a round about rye induced way I have 2 questions, What does the oft used 10% represent? and do you guys move threads and stuff here? Cause this one certainly hasn't had much WhiteSox Talk for a while.

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