Guest JimH Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 He is on right now. Talking about Guillen and Cora bringing passion since they wore the Sox uni. They are asking about Konerko and Garland ... KW says Garland has in fact made some strides and has steadily progressed. He says he knows the fans are tired of hearing about Garland's potential, and thinks he'll win 15 or 15+. Asking about young guys now ... KW is suggesting the young guys need to know how to use their stuff. It is a question of more than just having the stuff. He says they need 3 pitches that work, with a 4th pitch coming along. As an example, they need to be able to throw a breaking ball when behind in the count. KW says they're wanting to bring the young pitchers along more slowly than position players. He just said Borchard is not ready yet. KW said Borchard made some swing adjustments and he made improvements at the end of the year. Now they are asking about Shingo ... KW says they always have their eyes open, and that the east and west coast have the advantage with Asian guys (bigger cultural population, Seattle, NY, etc.). Says Shingo was on the market for a while, KW says he sent Wilder out to see him, they studied the tape and liked him. Says he can keep the ball down and is effective on the left handers 'cause he's got a good changeup. Says he's not promised any specific role. Says no promises have been made 'cause they haven't won. There will be lots of competition. Talking about Koch ... says if he can throw like he did in the past, he's got the advantage. Guys asking about the chemistry of the club, will it be better? KW says he's not certain, they'll miss Graff. KW says Graff wanted to explore playing regularly, but that KC wanted to pay more for a utility guy. Said they approached Graff in September to extend his contract, couldn't get it done. $$. KW says they're going into the year feeling they've got something to prove. KW now says it'll be positive energy as long as guys are doing what they're supposed to do. KW expects that Ozzie will demand the guys get their routine done. And have a little fun too 'cause he thinks Ozzie can do that. KW is now talking about Mentkiewicz and said he can't really disagree with his recent comments. Frank Thomas ... says he'll see him in Tucson, he thinks some of the comments have been overblown. If there are issues to get through, they will sit down as men and get through them. KW will hear what what Frank has to say, and Frank will hear what KW has to say. Tom Waddle hopes the guys come in with a chip on their shoulder, KW says he hopes the guys come in ready to go. Interview over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Thanks Jim. Sounds liek a good interview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Thanks Jim, sounds like a very good interview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 the part about borchard not being ready bothers me...he was compared adam dunn inthe minors..scouts were split 50/50 on who was the better talent...dunne is a year younget than joe and has been a ML regular for 2 years now...already hitting 72 homers...imo..we really needed borchard in CF last year from day one..putting up dunn-like numbers..27 homers in 381 at bats...dunn has been an all star already... someone should ask kw why our young guys take forever to develop...crede was 25 when he got a starting position...to me after 25 if you havent made it as a starter youre now consider old...borchard is now 25 ,or will be soon and he isnt ready..and he was a number one pick...olivo will be 25 this year..so will harris...rowand is 26 and these guys are still question marks.. in the past we hit on a few young pitchers...kip wells and buehrle .garland too..but thats it.. look at other teams.. cleveland...they have brandon phillips and jhonny peralta...granted these guys didnt hit for a high average but they played some good exciting baseball and last year were 20 and 21 years old...jody gerut in his first year hits 22 -75 .279..before last year he had zero ml at bats..granted he was 25 last year too but it was the first time cleveland needed him in the outfield...and he busts on the scene as a stud..plus he is from elmhurst..gotta root for a local guy...our guys come up and we have to hear about an adjustment period as they start their careers hitting 115.. guys like coco crips ,ben broussard , travis hafner , alex escobar , ryan ludwick , casey blake (not exactly young) how in the hell did they build this team so fast???...it was just 2 years ago when they still division champs... look at all the names i listed..who do we have to compare since '00??...joe crede and perhaps aaron rowand...i dont think you can put olivo and harris with those guys yet... thats what id ask williams..why does it take forever for our prospects to pan out while a team like cleveland reloads with in two years.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 While Cleveland looks to be reloading, you still have to see what develops. WIll they keep taking steps forward or will they start taking steps backwards. In Crede's case you have to remember he was never given the opportunity, although I think many of us believe he could of came up and contributed earlier. Some teams develop prospects slower, depends on the type of playesr you have. Look at someone like Reed, right now he's jumping through the system. Hopefully that jump continues, but certain guys escalate at different rates and you have to let those guys get better at their pace, cause there is nothing you can really do about it, other then continue to coach them, etc. Borchard was very raw. I think everyone is dissapointed at him, but every team is dissapointed at a few prospects each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 While Cleveland looks to be reloading, you still have to see what develops. WIll they keep taking steps forward or will they start taking steps backwards. In Crede's case you have to remember he was never given the opportunity, although I think many of us believe he could of came up and contributed earlier. Some teams develop prospects slower, depends on the type of playesr you have. Look at someone like Reed, right now he's jumping through the system. Hopefully that jump continues, but certain guys escalate at different rates and you have to let those guys get better at their pace, cause there is nothing you can really do about it, other then continue to coach them, etc. Borchard was very raw. I think everyone is dissapointed at him, but every team is dissapointed at a few prospects each year. good points...but still..the number of young players that cleveland has either developed or found on the scrap heap that have showed up there and put up at a minimum decsent numbers is pretty impressive... i went to their mlb site to look up stats on few guys for my ealier response in this thread and i started clicking away on prospect after prospect...and each one of them was hitting 270 -280 ect..15 or so homers in like 300 -400 at bats..i click on about 5 and was like WTH..where did all these guys come from... im sure all of them wont pan out but they have enough in numbers to be looking pretty promising right now...i dont know..it impressed me..another thing...go look at their young pitchers..alot of them had partial seasons last year and were effective..if , and i know its a big if , enough come through this could be a 4 way race.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 The way I see things, it is very smart to slowly develop players. Let them get their at bats or innings pitched at AAA. Let the get older, bigger, stronger, down there. If you bring them up at 22, then by the time they are hitting their prime, they have 6 years of service time and are able to walk via free agency. Bring them up at 25 or 26, let them play through their prime with us, then they can walk. You, theoretically, get more bang for your buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 But remember Rowand was effective in his partial season. So were some of the Sox pitchers, kip Wells looked great in his first stint up, then he hit some really rough times. I Think it all depends, but the Indians were able to do a great job moving veterans for really good prospects, like when they made the Colon and Alomar deals. The Sox could do that, but they don't want to rebuild, they want to slowly let in more talent and move it up and KW feels he wants the prospects to develop longer (His thinking is the prior prospects fuzzled cause they had a lot of pressure on them as well as not enough seasoning in the minors; he wants the guys to be mature and ready). While that means guys may make it to the majors longer, it could mean they are more productive right out of the gate. Its kind of all wait and see, although I will say the system is looking really strong in the lower levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 excellent points on the free agent years and players in their prime.. jason...thats why i included rowand along with crede as the players that could compete with the guys cleveland brought up last year.. im all for developing pitchers slowly..im a firm believer of not given up on a guy until he is atleast 27 and has logged 400 ML innings..so with pitchers you take your time...but everyday players im not so patient with...i dont see a whole lot of difference if at 22 they get their at bats in the bigs or spend two more years getting seasoned in AAA...i think with hitting the learning curve is alot faster and getting ML at bats is the fastest way to get over the curve..regaurdless of age... i also think because it takes pitchers longer to develop keeping someone like borchard in AAA for 2 or 3 years could stymie his development...because the pitchers , imo , are usually behind the hitters..he has to get those ML at bats sometime whatever the theory..i hope what the sox are doing works..but they are starting to worry me..that number 1 farm system of '00 - '01 has not produced much so far.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I completely agree on your comparison of hitters and pitchers. I truly feel a good hitter could be ready at an early stage. In Bocrhards case, you know the Sox are dissapointed he isn't already here. I don't think they envisioned the flaws in his swing to hold him back. I think they hoped they could bring him to the show and continue to work his flaws out at the major league level. The problem was the flaws were too severe and he simply needed more work then they expected. This guy has put up some pretty damn impressive numbers though and if he is making strides then he could be due to turn things around this year and get a few months in with the Sox later in the season. I completely agree though, its much easier for a hitter to learn on the fly then a pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 One thing about Cleveland, they got very good return for Colon when they traded him. That's called moving a guy at the right time. I agree that we fall short on player development. They've known Borchard has had a long swing since they drafted him. Four years later and he's still got a long swing. He was very raw when drafted, but he's lauded as an extremely hard worker, so it's not as if Borchard is slacking off. I'm frustrated that these coaches can't seem to get through and fix some of these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 One thing about Cleveland, they got very good return for Colon when they traded him. That's called moving a guy at the right time. I agree that we fall short on player development. They've known Borchard has had a long swing since they drafted him. Four years later and he's still got a long swing. He was very raw when drafted, but he's lauded as an extremely hard worker, so it's not as if Borchard is slacking off. I'm frustrated that these coaches can't seem to get through and fix some of these things. Jim excellent point, which is why we need to move Maggs now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Jim excellent point, which is why we need to move Maggs now. But quick.. have you seen something you would call a good return for Maggs..? I have not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 But quick.. have you seen something you would call a good return for Maggs..? I have not yet. I had no problem with the Jose/Maggs-Nomar/Williamson deal, and I don't mind the Perez, Jackson/Miller, Mota, CF deal. Even if that last deal doesn't include Mota or the CF, I still like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I had no problem with the Jose/Maggs-Nomar/Williamson deal, and I don't mind the Perez, Jackson/Miller, Mota, CF deal. Even if that last deal doesn't include Mota or the CF, I still like it. Is that with Nomar staying here..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Is that with Nomar staying here..? Either way. Even if we sent Nomar on to LA for that same type of package. If we are going to dump Maggs, I want us to get a ton of pitching or a big name guy to replace him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Either way. Even if we sent Nomar on to LA for that same type of package. If we are going to dump Maggs, I want us to get a ton of pitching or a big name guy to replace him. A pitching package isn't going to help us now. The only way I like that deal was Nomar staying... but then we're screwed in RF because I don't want an experiment roaming out there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 A pitching package isn't going to help us now. The only way I like that deal was Nomar staying... but then we're screwed in RF because I don't want an experiment roaming out there.. Right, better the devil you do know than.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 A pitching package isn't going to help us now. The only way I like that deal was Nomar staying... but then we're screwed in RF because I don't want an experiment roaming out there.. My point of view is the returns are only going to dimish as we rush towards the trading deadline. IMO the only chance we will have at getting something decent for Maggs is in Spring Training, when some team has a superstar get hurt, and wants to replace their output. Other than that, a pitching package will be a whole lot better than the s*** will get for him July, or the nothing that we will get for him after this season.l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 My point of view is the returns are only going to dimish as we rush towards the trading deadline. IMO the only chance we will have at getting something decent for Maggs is in Spring Training, when some team has a superstar get hurt, and wants to replace their output. Other than that, a pitching package will be a whole lot better than the s*** will get for him July, or the nothing that we will get for him after this season.l Duly noted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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