southsideirish Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Is Carlton Fisk the best FA signing in the history of Major League Baseball? Can you think of one better? I would love to hear people's thoughts on this as I honestly can't think of a better FA signing in baseball. Here is ESPN's top 10, No Carlton Fisk to be found. Should he be? Remember Fisk played 13 years with teh White Sox. He was signed in his prime and went on to be one of the best catchers ever. Yet there is no mention of him here. The 10 best free agents Reggie Jackson, Yankees, 1977 Jackson was already one of the most famous names in baseball when he signed a five-year, $3 million contract. He then became Mr. October, leading the Yankees to back-to-back World Series titles. In the clinching Game 6 of 1977, he blasted three home runs on three swings to beat the Dodgers. Goose Gossage, Yankees, 1978 Sparky Lyle had won the AL Cy Young in 1977 as the Yankees' closer, but that didn't stop George Steinbrenner from signing Gossage. The Goose pitched six seasons for the Yankees, twice led the AL in saves and never had an ERA above 2.62. Pete Rose, Phillies, 1979 Rose wasn't really a great player during his stay in Philadelphia, but he was the final piece of the puzzle as the Phillies won their only World Series championship in 1980. The Phillies had lost the NLCS in 1976, 1977 and 1978 before signing Rose to a four-year contract for $800,000 per year. Kirk Gibson, Dodgers, 1988 Gibson became a "second-chance" free agent in 1988, after the owners had colluded to close down the free-agent market in 1986 and 1987. Gibson signed for $1.8 million with the Dodgers (a $500,000 raise from what he made with the Tigers in 1987) and went on to win the NL MVP and blast his famous home run off Dennis Eckersley in Game 1 of the World Series. Nolan Ryan, Rangers, 1989 Sure, Ryan had thrown five no-hitters and was the career strikeout king, but he didn't really become Nolan Ryan until he signed with the Rangers. The Astros thought Ryan was too old, even though he had led the NL in strikeouts in 1988. Ryan cemented his legend with Texas, throwing two more no-hitters, winning his 300th game, fanning 301 hitters at age 42, helping a new ballpark get built and becoming fast friends with team owner George W. Bush. Jack Morris, Twins, 1991 Morris left the Tigers to sign a one-year deal for $2.67 million with his hometown team. He won 18 games and pitched one of the greatest games of all-time when he beat the Braves 1-0 in 10 innings in Game 7 of the World Series. Then he bolted for Toronto, where he won 21 games and another World Series title. Barry Bonds, Giants, 1993 Bonds had won two MVP awards with the Pirates, but with a limited budget, the Pirates instead elected to sign Andy Van Slyke instead of Bonds. Many have insinuated the club signed Van Slyke because he was white and more popular with the fans. He never had another good year while Bonds remains one of baseball's greatest players (and one of the greatest of all-time). The Giants signed him for six years, $43.75 million. Greg Maddux, Braves, 1993 This was one bidding war the Yankees didn't win, as Maddux took less money (about $5.5 million per year) to sign with Atlanta -- in part because of better golfing available than in New York. Maddux had won a Cy Young with the Cubs in '92 and won the next three years as well. Roger Clemens, Blue Jays, 1997 Clemens had gone 10-13 with the Red Sox in 1996, although with a solid 3.63 ERA. Dan Duquette decided to let him go anyway. The Rocket headed north and won back-to-back Cy Young Awards, winning the AL pitching triple crown (wins, ERA, strikeouts) both years. Randy Johnson, Diamondbacks, 1999 Arizona has no complaints about giving the Big Unit a four-year, $53 million contract. Some teams had concerns about Johnson's history of back problems, but all he's done in two seasons with Arizona is win two Cy Young Awards while striking out more than 700 batters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Reggie Jackson, Yankees, 1977 Jackson was already one of the most famous names in baseball when he signed a five-year, $3 million contract. He then became Mr. October, leading the Yankees to back-to-back World Series titles. In the clinching Game 6 of 1977, he blasted three home runs on three swings to beat the Dodgers. Jack Morris, Twins, 1991 Morris left the Tigers to sign a one-year deal for $2.67 million with his hometown team. He won 18 games and pitched one of the greatest games of all-time when he beat the Braves 1-0 in 10 innings in Game 7 of the World Series. Then he bolted for Toronto, where he won 21 games and another World Series title. Barry Bonds, Giants, 1993 Bonds had won two MVP awards with the Pirates, but with a limited budget, the Pirates instead elected to sign Andy Van Slyke instead of Bonds. Many have insinuated the club signed Van Slyke because he was white and more popular with the fans. He never had another good year while Bonds remains one of baseball's greatest players (and one of the greatest of all-time). The Giants signed him for six years, $43.75 million. Greg Maddux, Braves, 1993 This was one bidding war the Yankees didn't win, as Maddux took less money (about $5.5 million per year) to sign with Atlanta -- in part because of better golfing available than in New York. Maddux had won a Cy Young with the Cubs in '92 and won the next three years as well. Roger Clemens, Blue Jays, 1997 Clemens had gone 10-13 with the Red Sox in 1996, although with a solid 3.63 ERA. Dan Duquette decided to let him go anyway. The Rocket headed north and won back-to-back Cy Young Awards, winning the AL pitching triple crown (wins, ERA, strikeouts) both years. I have left in the ones I agree with as top 10. Fisk by those standards, no. We never got a world series with him (not his fault). A reminder: if Ron Schueler wasn;t so f***ing stupid, we would have signed Clemens and not toronto - Schu thought Navarro had more to offer than Clemens - I can't go on, I get too upset when I reflect on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooftop Shots Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 We had one of the all-time best Sox pitching rotations with Hoyt Bannister, Dotson, and Burns. So many rave over the talent that the staff had (AND RIGHTLY SO), but how much did Fisk's involvement, experience in knowing batter's weaknesses, knowledge,and pitch-calling were key roles into bringing that staff up to the level that they reached? He believed in them and used his experience to help develope them. In return, they trusted his judgement completely! I don't know about "Best Ever F.A." in baseball, but for all the "behind -the-scenes" things that he did, as well as putting his heart into every game, well, in my book, he's definately in the tops as far as all time Sox F.A.'s. I had (and still do have) a tremendous respect for the guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I know, that nobody liked the guy, but Albert Belle owned while he was here, and we were lucky enough to have him leave before his hip gave out. All in all a great signing IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 A reminder: if Ron Schueler wasn;t so f***ing stupid, we would have signed Clemens and not toronto - Schu thought Navarro had more to offer than Clemens - I can't go on, I get too upset when I reflect on that Just for your information ESPN lists Navarro as the #1 worst FA signing of all time. Danny Tartabll is in there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Just for your information ESPN lists Navarro as the #1 worst FA signing of all time. Danny Tartabll is in there as well. It has got to be right up there with the Orioles signing of Belle, and Mo Vaughn. Also Chan Ho Park was just horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 I know, that nobody liked the guy, but Albert Belle owned while he was here, and we were lucky enough to have him leave before his hip gave out. All in all a great signing IMO. You think so? Are you being sarcastic? If your not then maybe I have a different memory of him. I always remember him having a terrible year until we were out of it. Then he would go off with a great second half and put up some really good numbers. Didn't Frank also go into some kind of decline when Albert got here? That is just what I remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Just for your information ESPN lists Navarro as the #1 worst FA signing of all time. ESPN got that right, for damn sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 You think so? Are you being sarcastic? If your not then maybe I have a different memory of him. I always remember him having a terrible year until we were out of it. Then he would go off with a great second half and put up some really good numbers. Didn't Frank also go into some kind of decline when Albert got here? That is just what I remember. The guy set the all time franchise single season records for HR's, RBI, XBH, and OPS, and might even be missing some. I would call that a pretty good signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 The guy set the all time franchise single season records for HR's, RBI, XBH, and OPS, and might even be missing some. I would call that a pretty good signing. Yeah if you put it that way I guess your right. I have never looked at his numbers to be honest with you. I just remember him putting up great numbers when our team would be out of it. Plus he did hurt Frank didn't he? What was Frank's numbers hwile he was here? Isn't that when he went into a decline? Didn't he also hurt the clubhouse? Numbers are nice but wins are better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 A reminder: if Ron Schueler wasn;t so f***ing stupid, we would have signed Clemens and not toronto - Schu thought Navarro had more to offer than Clemens - I can't go on, I get too upset when I reflect on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 ESPN got that right, for damn sure. Pretty bad signing, that's for sure. But let's not forget the Todd Hundley signing on the other side of town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 If your not then maybe I have a different memory of him. I always remember him having a terrible year until we were out of it. Then he would go off with a great second half and put up some really good numbers. That's how I remember him too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred3535 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 I think the Johnson signing in AZ may be the best. He almost singlehandedly led them to a World Series Championship (how many free agents can ay that?) and won two or three Cy Youngs. But if you're looking at stats and price, I don't think anyone's ever gotten a bigger bang for the buck than E-Lo last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 29, 2004 Author Share Posted January 29, 2004 I think the Johnson signing in AZ may be the best. He almost singlehandedly led them to a World Series Championship (how many free agents can ay that?) and won two or three Cy Youngs. But if you're looking at stats and price, I don't think anyone's ever gotten a bigger bang for the buck than E-Lo last year. Yeah but what if you are looking at longevity and stats? I mean Fisk spent 13 years here. He came here at the prime of his career. He is a Hall of Famer. How does he not even make this list? RJ won a world series and 2 CYs and I agree that is a great signing, maybe the best of all, but what only 2 or 3 years? I am just suprised that Fisk is not even on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 I know, that nobody liked the guy, but Albert Belle owned while he was here, and we were lucky enough to have him leave before his hip gave out. All in all a great signing IMO. Pssttt.... I liked him... a little bit anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 29, 2004 Author Share Posted January 29, 2004 Pssttt.... I liked him... a little bit anyway What does that mean exactly Steff? Care to tell more? How do you know all these players anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred3535 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Yeah but what if you are looking at longevity and stats? I mean Fisk spent 13 years here. He came here at the prime of his career. He is a Hall of Famer. How does he not even make this list? RJ won a world series and 2 CYs and I agree that is a great signing, maybe the best of all, but what only 2 or 3 years? I am just suprised that Fisk is not even on the list. I agree that Carlton was a great player and a great signing. But Johnson is actually signed through 2005, which makes seven years of Randy in AZ, at the end of which he'll probably retire. So it comes down to this: Would you trade thirteen years with Carlton for seven years, two MVP awards and a World Series championship. I know that I sure would. That's why I think Johnson is a better signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 29, 2004 Author Share Posted January 29, 2004 I agree that Carlton was a great player and a great signing. But Johnson is actually signed through 2005, which makes seven years of Randy in AZ, at the end of which he'll probably retire. So it comes down to this: Would you trade thirteen years with Carlton for seven years, two MVP awards and a World Series championship. I know that I sure would. That's why I think Johnson is a better signing. He has to be healthy for the remainder of that contract. He can't have more years like last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 What does that mean exactly Steff? Care to tell more? How do you know all these players anyway? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred3535 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 He has to be healthy for the remainder of that contract. He can't have more years like last year. Not really. He's had four magnificent seasons and one decent season (I doubt many people here would have been disappointed with his 4.26 ERA if he were the third starter for the Sox, and so I would consider last year a fairly decent season, although not No. 1 starter caliber). Carlton, meanwhile, only hit over .260 in six of his thirteen years with the Sox. He had over 20 home runs four times with the ChiSox, and 120 hits only four times as well. Now, I'd just like to make it clear once again that I think Fisk was a great signing and he is undoubtedly one of the best Sox players of all time. However he was not nearly as effective in Chicago as he was in Boston. With the White Sox he had maybe one MVP caliber seasons, and definitely not the four Cy Young quality seasons Johnson's had. And the fact remains that he did not lead the team to a championship. That's why I think Fisk, although a great player, was not as good a signing as Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I think the Johnson signing in AZ may be the best. He almost singlehandedly led them to a World Series Championship (how many free agents can ay that?) That's where Pedro's and Unit's VALUE lies: not so much that they will make you into a 90-win team (they can't) pitching on 4-5 day rests during the season, but because of their ability to singlehandedly take over a SEVEN game PLAYOFF series by pitching up 3 times in either 8 days (BP innings) or 9 days (starting). A hot ace pitcher can pull a JJ-Guerrier and carry his team past a superior opponent; they can't hit "around" him....And in the end, it's ALL about the RING. Speaking of which.....let's sign Maddox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 What does that mean exactly Steff? Care to tell more? How do you know all these players anyway? :dips*** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 30, 2004 Author Share Posted January 30, 2004 That's where Pedro's and Unit's VALUE lies: not so much that they will make you into a 90-win team (they can't) pitching on 4-5 day rests during the season, but because of their ability to singlehandedly take over a SEVEN game PLAYOFF series by pitching up 3 times in either 8 days (BP innings) or 9 days (starting). A hot ace pitcher can pull a JJ-Guerrier and carry his team past a superior opponent; they can't hit "around" him....And in the end, it's ALL about the RING. Speaking of which.....let's sign Maddox. I have yet to see Pedro do that. Doesn't Maddux have a horrible playoff record? You would be taking a great chance on Maddux. He has never pitched in the American League, he will be 38 in April, and his ERA was not very good last year. I wouldn't like that signing at all. Especially not for 8-10 million a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Speaking of which.....let's sign Maddox. I'll save someone more petty than I the trouble You mean Tommy Maddox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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