fullcollapse Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 agree on burkett over erickson. erickson is a 35 year old pitcher coming off tommy john and doesn't look all that interesting to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 wouldnt you rather have burkett than erickson..atleast burket is not an injury risk...or did burkett already sign with someone?? I would actually try and get both of them. In our s***ty division these guys could really excel, see Esteban Loiaza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Unfair to attribute E Loaiza's suberb season to the fatc he was in the AL Central. Didn't E Lo end up losing 2 games to the Tigers because of no Sox offense? Loaiza showed how hard work and the ability to listen to your pitching coach can make a winner. Maybe Erickson can do that too? I am not sure I would risk the money though. But, getting this back to the original POST: If the Sox ownership whould remove their head from their backside orifice we could sign Maggs. You just don't give up a star player that easy and claim you are a competitive and winning ball club going for the gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Stay away from Erickson. The guy is going to be 36 and hasn't pitched in the majors in 2 of the last 3 years. Even when he was healthy he wasn't a good pitcher. He has a career ERA of 4.51, and his last 3 healthy seasons he has put up the following ERA's: 99' 4.81 00' 7.87 02' 5.55 I can understand taking a chance on a guy like Person, but Erickson is done. Besides, the Sox have enough stuggling veterans(Schoenewies, Person) and unproven youngsters(Rauch, Diaz, Grille, Wright, Cotts, Pacheco) to fight for the 4th and 5th spot. Stay away from Erickson. In regards to a possible trade for Maggs. As Rex pointed out, there is no way that LA gives up BOTH Miller and Jackson. Even getting one of them(along with Perez) might be a reach. Hanrahan is definately a guy that could be involved in a trade. I am sure that Evans would much rather give the Sox Perez, Hanrahan, and probably something else for Maggs opposed to Perez and either Miller/Jackson. I have only seen Hanrahan pitch once, but I came away with the following scouting report: high 80's-low 90's fastball(decent movement), a solid breaking ball, and good control. His ceiling is as a middle of the rotation starter according to most scouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick03 Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Yep.. sure is. BTW.. anyone see that Blow was on Sunday night.. great movie. All that Cocaine everywhere... lol....that is an awesome movie....i saw it for the first time and loved it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 29, 2004 Author Share Posted January 29, 2004 This could also change things real quick. It sounds like the Dodgers sale will be approved today. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1719414 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 I'm okay with the Sox trading Maggs, even though I really don't want to. I say this because I know KW will only do it if we get a lot in return for him. Supposedly Perez, Mota, and Miller. He refuses to discuss a contract extension, which doesn't upset me, but it does put us in a unique situation. If talks were more positive I wouldn't want to do it. Another reason is that our farm system isn't the bst in the league, but one thing we have are strong outfield prospects. We'll see what happens, but if we don't get a good value for him, I know KW won't do it. That's fine too, we can make a playoff push with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 I'm okay with the Sox trading Maggs, even though I really don't want to. I say this because I know KW will only do it if we get a lot in return for him. Supposedly Perez, Mota, and Miller. He refuses to discuss a contract extension, which doesn't upset me, but it does put us in a unique situation. If talks were more positive I wouldn't want to do it. Another reason is that our farm system isn't the bst in the league, but one thing we have are strong outfield prospects. We'll see what happens, but if we don't get a good value for him, I know KW won't do it. That's fine too, we can make a playoff push with him. Two things come up in this post. 1. Who says we have good OF prospects? We have Reed who seems to be a very good prospect, and then Borchard who has struggled the past two years. Then we have several young guys in rookie ball and A ball that were drafted within the past year and a half whom we have no idea how they'll turn out. IMO, we're not strong in that department, but could be within the next year or two. 2. Another point brought up is what is Maggs value? Is he worth Perez and a top prospect? Mota as well? more then that even? not even that? I personally can't say. He makes $14 mill, is coming off a somewhat down year(though still a good year), but has had seasons in the past where he's hit .310 with 35 homers and 130 RBI(that's actually just around the average of 2000-2002), and he's even stolen 25 bases at a time too. You have to take a lot into consideration, and is why the Dodgers(mainly Evans) has been so cautious to make a move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 By the quotes I'm seeing from the new Dodgers owner it looks like he might be wanting to make an impact move before spring training. It also could be press conference rhetoric. I think Rogers was right on with his idea that Boras was waiting for this sale to go down before signing Maddux and I-Rod.... It could be interesting to see what they do now that they are freed up, I know they REALLY, REALLY, need bats (yes more than one) and they have the pitching to trade for some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Reed is good enough to take the starting role if we end up needing him. Of course we don't know how the prospects are going to turn out, that's why they're prospects and not major leaguers. However, their outlook is good. Borchard will have a chance to rebound, it's the only year he hasn't performed, so it's a little premature to give up on him. When you say we could in a year or two, that's basically what I meant without saying it, so thanks for clearing it up. Losing Maggs will hurt, but my point is that we should be able to use one of our guys, pretty much Reed and be okay if we bolstered our pitching. There is a lot to consider with Maggs, which is why I wouldn't mind the trade. One of their top prospects have the potential to be a starter for us for this year or next year. I think it's worth the gamble, but like I said I wouldn't mind keeping him either and at least getting a draft pick and developing Borchard and Reed another year. If we can resign him, even better. We'll just have to see how it works out, but I believe KW will work out a deal to our favor, or just keep Maggs. I'll be happy either way, because I know KW won't be presured into a trade, he'll only do it if it makes our club better. We have a pretty good staff to make those decisions in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 His plate discipline will help him excel at any level. He wouldn't replace Maggs, but he could have a solid season. Do I know for sure, no, but I'm confident that if we bolstered up our pitching it would be worth the risk. He's got some pluses as well for our club. He's a lefty bat, a true lead off hitter (I like Harris, but this could take some pressure off each other seeing who would be better in that spot- and whoever it was a spot later in the order would have some speed attached to it), good base runner, good fielder. You never know for sure, but the better experts in baseball seem to believe he's got a bright future. One said he had has a high ceiling, saying he could be the best lead off hitter ever if he continually progresses. We couldn't possibly expect that kind of production this year, or even ever knowing how could he would have to be to reach that level. That wasn't my prediction though, it was in rotoworld.com. Anyway, that's why I think he'll be good. Realistically, he could have a good start to his career and bat .275 his first year. Not stellar, but not a bad start. We'll just have to see, but again with the pitching it would be worth the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Reed is good enough to take the starting role if we end up needing him. Of course we don't know how the prospects are going to turn out, that's why they're prospects and not major leaguers. However, their outlook is good. Borchard will have a chance to rebound, it's the only year he hasn't performed, so it's a little premature to give up on him. When you say we could in a year or two, that's basically what I meant without saying it, so thanks for clearing it up. Losing Maggs will hurt, but my point is that we should be able to use one of our guys, pretty much Reed and be okay if we bolstered our pitching. There is a lot to consider with Maggs, which is why I wouldn't mind the trade. One of their top prospects have the potential to be a starter for us for this year or next year. I think it's worth the gamble, but like I said I wouldn't mind keeping him either and at least getting a draft pick and developing Borchard and Reed another year. If we can resign him, even better. We'll just have to see how it works out, but I believe KW will work out a deal to our favor, or just keep Maggs. I'll be happy either way, because I know KW won't be presured into a trade, he'll only do it if it makes our club better. We have a pretty good staff to make those decisions in my opinion. You have no idea whether Reed is good enough to play at the big level yet. The highest level he's played at AA thus far. Borchard had a great year a few seasons back, got rushed, now look at the guy. He's got no confidence in himself. There is no way the Sox are going to rush Reed. He's got too much confidence and had too great of a year last season for the Sox to mess any of that up. I doubt that you've ever even watched Reed play a single game, therefore I doubt you're totally qualified to make an assessment on whether he's ready to play at the big league level. I don't mean to sound harsh or anything, I'm just being realistic with ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 You have no idea whether Reed is good enough to play at the big level yet. The highest level he's played at AA thus far. Borchard had a great year a few seasons back, got rushed, now look at the guy. He's got no confidence in himself. There is no way the Sox are going to rush Reed. He's got too much confidence and had too great of a year last season for the Sox to mess any of that up. I doubt that you've ever even watched Reed play a single game, therefore I doubt you're totally qualified to make an assessment on whether he's ready to play at the big league level. I don't mean to sound harsh or anything, I'm just being realistic with ya. I may not be qualified, but other people who are said that he has a chance to start by opening day, and if not look for him to come up mid season. You never know for sure, but you have to look at what I wrote. If we trade Maggs and bolster our pitching, it's worth taking a shot with him. He has very good plate discipline. I'm not trying to blow smoke up your ass, other people have assessed this as well. You can't assume what happened with Borchard will happen to Reed, they are very different. Especially since Borchard is a power guy with a long swing. That puts him at a disadvantage when coming up to this level. Who knows what will happen, but I stick to my opinion that its worth the risk assuming we trade Maggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Let's put it this way: no trade is going to be made that is going to force Jeremy Reed into a starting position at the big league level this season. If the trade you are discussing was to be made: Perez, Mota and Miller for Mags, that would leave us with huge question marks in the outfield. And bearing another trade would leave either Borchard or Reed in right field. The Sox are not going to go into the season with that as a possibility. Add that to the fact that Rowand is not even a sure thing in center, if that trade was to be made, we could be majorly screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Let's put it this way: no trade is going to be made that is going to force Jeremy Reed into a starting position at the big league level this season. If the trade you are discussing was to be made: Perez, Mota and Miller for Mags, that would leave us with huge question marks in the outfield. And bearing another trade would leave either Borchard or Reed in right field. The Sox are not going to go into the season with that as a possibility. Add that to the fact that Rowand is not even a sure thing in center, if that trade was to be made, we could be majorly screwed. Or a solid club. The Sox will make that determination, and the truth of it is, neither of us no what their plans are. I really don't see why that is far fetched. Is it ideal from our outfields perspective, no, but defensively we don't suffer in my opinion, and these guys may end up surprising you. I could be wrong, but again, I believe its worth the risk. And if the Sox really didn't believe that Reed could even possibly play right field this season, he wouldn't be ST invite. I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'm saying it may happen. And if it does, I'll go into the season confident that Rowand and Reed will perform. You can disagree, that's fine, I respect that. It's what I believe and feel comfortable with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I just wanted to point out a few things in this thread. 1) Someone mentioned the idea of getting draft picks for Maggs if the Sox don't resign him. However, in order to get draft picks, the Sox would have to offer him arbitration, which is highly unlikely. If Maggs puts up a typical year, than he would probably get an increase(on his 14M) if taken to arbitration. Its unlikely that Maggs will get offered more then 14M/yr by another team, so the chances are that if offer arbitration that Maggs would accept and get more then the 14M he is making this year. I am willing to bet that JR will not take that risk(which is a semi wise decision IMO), so don't be so sure that the Sox will get draft picks for Maggs. Just something to keep in mind. The Sox could lose Maggs with out getting anything in return. 2) At this point I highly doubt that the Sox get Perez, Mota, AND either Miller/Jackson. From what I have heard/read LA might give the Sox Mota OR Miller/Jackson, but not both. I would honestly take Perez and Jackson for Maggs at this point. Like I pointed out earlier, I have a bad feeling that the Sox could end up getting nothing in return for Maggs if they hold onto him, so getting a quality middle of the rotation starter(which this team needs badly) and one of the top pitching prospects in the game is a decent return. You also have to factor in the 7-8M that the Sox would save in this trade as a positive. In this day of age, financial flexibility is just as valuable as the players. The Sox could than spend some of that money to find a replacement for Maggs. 3) Aboz, you don't have to be so harsh. I have actually seen Reed play in person and agree that another 1/2 year in the upper minors would do him some good. If the Sox do trade Maggs for a package of Perez(and others), than they will say about 7-8M depending on who the other players are. I have a feeling that the Sox will use some of that saved money to find a cheap replacement. Last time I checked, Mondesi and TLee were still on the market. I would like to see the Sox go after TLee if they do trade Maggs. He put together a good year last year, is still relatively young(28), is a lefty bat for the middle of the order, and he would come pretty cheap(less then 3M/yr in all likelyhood). The way that I see it. The Sox COULD trade Maggs for Perez, Jackson, TLee(money saved in the deal used to sign him), and 4-5M of financial flexibility. I think that is a pretty fair trade off that not only improves the current team, but improves the future. I would feel much more confident about this team if they got another solid middle of the rotation pitcher, even if it comes at the expense of Maggs. I would like it even more if the Sox could somehow pull off the Perez for Konerko trade, and then sign TLee to replace Konerko. That would be the most ideal situation IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I think McCourt is blowing some serious smoke, and he's gonna dump payroll. What do you think of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 You have no idea whether Reed is good enough to play at the big level yet. The highest level he's played at AA thus far. Borchard had a great year a few seasons back, got rushed, now look at the guy. He's got no confidence in himself. There is no way the Sox are going to rush Reed. He's got too much confidence and had too great of a year last season for the Sox to mess any of that up. I doubt that you've ever even watched Reed play a single game, therefore I doubt you're totally qualified to make an assessment on whether he's ready to play at the big league level. I don't mean to sound harsh or anything, I'm just being realistic with ya. I think it is all speculation either way. Both of you guys have solid points. Aboz, there is no way you can state these things as facts as you have no idea what the White Sox are thinking. There are many directions they can go in and this certainly looks like one of them. Seal can not possibly know if Reed will be a solid major league contributor as even the best scouts in the world are wrong on certain players. I did enjoy reading your posts and both have good arguments. I can't wait to see Reed, but I can wait long enough to make sure he is ready. If the Sox determine he is ready this year and trade Magglio for some pitching then I would be fine with that as well. The Sox definately need a leadoff hitter, speed, and a left handed bat, so I can definately see that happening if they determine Reed is ready. Something no one here knows for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I think it is all speculation either way. Both of you guys have solid points. Aboz, there is no way you can state these things as facts as you have no idea what the White Sox are thinking. There are many directions they can go in and this certainly looks like one of them. Seal can not possibly know if Reed will be a solid major league contributor as even the best scouts in the world are wrong on certain players. I did enjoy reading your posts and both have good arguments. I can't wait to see Reed, but I can wait long enough to make sure he is ready. If the Sox determine he is ready this year and trade Magglio for some pitching then I would be fine with that as well. The Sox definately need a leadoff hitter, speed, and a left handed bat, so I can definately see that happening if they determine Reed is ready. Something no one here knows for sure. Of course its speculation. That's what ST is for. We'll see how they all do, however, I do thinkTravis Lee would be a good addition. I'm fine with Harris leading off if it proves Reed needs more time to develop. Travis Lee can also play right when needed, DH, and play first with Frank and maybe Gload. If the scenerio worked out that we trade Maggs or Konerko, Lee would prove to be a good addition. Not that one of those guys will be for sure traded, we'll just have to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 i looked at his numbers down on the farm..the guy sure made a lot of contact...only 19 k's in 242 at bats...one thing , he was 18 for 31 in sb's....thats a very bad pct...if he is gonna lead off for us he is probably not going to be much of a SB threat (this is in the maggs is traded and we have no one else scenario) we seem to hype our prospects way too much..remember corwin malone??...2 years ago many had him a cy young winner by this time...the fact is , very few of chisox prospects become even just plain old everyday players...since carlos lee back in 99 only joe crede has solidified a position coming up from the minors...if reed hits 230 in april at charlotte he'll drop off the radar...i guess you can say buehrle too but he really wasnt a prospect..he was a 38th round draft choice that came out of no where...that was pure luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 It wasn't luck, he was overlooked. He made it happen. As for Reed, he shouldn't be pentalized because he was a higher pick. The fact is, is that he's a very good player. They knew he would be good, they just didn't know it would be this soon and at this rate. He would have to struggle in the majors at first like any rookie, but he could certainly produce. As for his speed, he's not going to break records, he's better known for having above average base running instincts. Maybe Harris should lead off either way, but having Reed in the lineup wouldn't be a bad decision. Who knows though, if one of these other trade rumors come true, then maybe we still won't need him yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Buehrle was a draft and follow. He improved greatly after going to a JC. He would have been drafted much higher in the next year's draft if the Sox hadn't locked him up before the next draft. When a draft and follow works out well, it is generally a combination of luck and proper scouting. A scout saw things he liked in Buehrle and recommended the Sox draft him. He wasn't highly regarded so the Sox didn't make a huge effort to sign him and preferred to watch how he developed the following year. Obviously, the scout who recommended Buehrle was right in what he saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox4lifeinPA Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Scarface is one of the greatest of all time. that's so incorrect I don't know where to start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 30, 2004 Author Share Posted January 30, 2004 that's so incorrect I don't know where to start "You got a problem wit dat? You gotta a f***ing problem?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 that's so incorrect I don't know where to start its my opinon and Im entitled to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.