Elcaballo45 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Thats why Elo would be between them, although I hold steadfast in my thoughts that they are not identical pitchers. Washburn almost soley throws the fastball and variations of the fastball, while Buehrle throws quite a few different pitches. I don't see a problem in having the two of them in the rotation, I see that as a good thing. True, as long as they would hold to form to what they did after the all star break last year. I guess when you think about our #4, and #5 pitchers, i suppose taking Washburn isnt too bad of an idea.... sighhhh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 You are right. Washburn was a big key to the Angels winning the world series two years ago. He was also a big key to them sucking last year. I would rather see a deal like this. Sox Get: Percival - $8 mil Yankee Prospect Angels Get: Valentine - $5 mil Yankee Prospect Yankees Get: Koch - $6.5mil Glaus - $7.25mil Sox save $3mil on payroll. Yankees get 3rd baseman. Sox get good closed. Angels get SCREWED. Why would Anaheim do this deal? Besides the Sox need another starter. Washburn is the key to for the Sox. Some of you guys do bring up an interesting point when you mention subing Percivil for Erstad. I like Percivil more then Erstad from a talent standpoint, plus Percivil only has one more year left on his contract compared to Erstad who has 3. My guess is that some team(most likely the Yankees) would have to take Koch. With the money saved, the Sox could then sign TLee to replace Konerko. I like TLee a lot more then Erstad, and he would probably only cost 3M/yr tops. Here would be the trade: Anaheim gets: Konerko 1B(Sox) 8.5M Valentin 3B(Sox) 5M Heredia LHP(NYY) 600K Prospect (NYY) Sox get: Washburn LHP(Ana) 5.45M Percivil RHP(Ana) 7.5M Prospect (NYY) Yankees get: Glaus 3B(Ana) 9M Koch RHP(Sox) 6.3M The only problem with this deal is that Anaheim is stuck with both Konerko and Erstad at 1B. They would probably want to get rid of Erstad, but would probably have to package something with him to get rid of his contract. Why each team does this deal? Anaheim They do this deal because it saves them about 8M. They get a decent stopgap at 3B until their top prospect is ready in 2005. They get an upgrade offensively at 1B. They get a lefty reliever, which they need. They also get a solid prospect from the Yankees. They do give up a lot, but they get fair value talent wise + some financial flexibility. Sox They do this deal because it saves them about 7M. They can then turn around and spend about 2-3M to sign TLee to replace Konerko, and add a lefty bat to the middle of the order. They get a solid starting pitcher, which they desperately need. They get a proven closer that could turn the pen into a strength. They get a decent prospect from the Yankees. They also get a ton of financial flexibility next year without Konerko's contract and with Percivil's contract coming off the books. Yankees They get a big time 3B to replace Boone. They also get a solid right handed set up guy. They do add about 15M in payroll, but I think thats a small price for GS to pay to drasticly improve his team. They don't give up much besides a solid lefty reliever and a couple of prospects(they also take on a lot of payroll). I think this trade would improve all 3 teams. It gives all 3 teams what they need, including financial flexibility for the Sox and Angels. The only hold up that I see is that the Angels would probably want someone to take Erstad. Besides that I think it is a fair trade for all 3 teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I think the part I liked best about the article is the idea of shaking this team up. Rogers pointed out that the basic core of this team has averaged 83 wins the last few seasons, that coupled with the 5 straight losses to the Twins to end the year I want to see a shake-up. That's why I haven't been as negative about this off-season, the team last year flat out gagged and I think this team needs a change. I think with Washburn, E-Lo, Buehrle, and Garland as 1-4 (not that specific order) and the bullpen with Marte, Wunsch, and Mr. Zero would give us the pitching edge in the division. Also, I would rather have Schoey, Rauch, Cotts...etc battling for 1 spot, sometimes competition brings the best out in players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I don't know why, but I really like Washburn. If we can get him over here, I would love this deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 It would save us 7M, but KW would still say that we are over the budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 So what if Rogers wants to be a GM, at least then we have one on the Southside. Someone mentioned that Konerko is always healthy, I don't believe he has been healthy for the last 2 years now. How bout Percival instead of Erstad then? Maybe it would be more correct to say he wasn't healthy for parts of 2 seasons. 2nd half of 2002 and first half of 2003. But he really came around the 2nd half of last season. Foot problems you know and not hip problems. Konerko is healthy you know and ready to go. Plus I don't want Rogers as GM. It would be too much like when the Hawk was there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 There doesn't seem to be a lot of buzz about this rumor on the net, radio, or TV in Chicago. It seems that Rogers just might have been writing a column Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I'd be game for getting Percival and Washburn. I'm always up for improving our pitching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I'm wondering if the Phillies would be willing to dump a SP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I like any trade rumor that doesn't have Ordonez involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loaiza21 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Is this really being talked about by GM's or is this some dumb idea of Phil Rogers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Is this really being talked about by GM's or is this some dumb idea of Phil Rogers. I don't know if its actually being talked about between the teams, but Rogers has a source that claims it is. It is not a proposal off the top of his head, although he is prone to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loaiza21 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I don't see his source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Man, i know Carlos played 3B thru his minor league career, but i just cant see him at 1st base, is the thought of Frank playing first even in the question? I think Carlos could be quite good at 1B. His hands were never a problem at 3B. His problem was his footwork when making throws. IF he can learn the basic footwork required around the bag, I think he will be fine. There is a lot less need for throwing at 1B. I think his hands would be solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 ESPN 1000 is reporting that KW says there there is no truth to the Yankees/Angles/Whote Sox trade rumor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 I'd like that proposed deal 61382 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 The connectinos between Buehrle and Washburn continue, earlier in July of last year, i posted how the similiarites of there number, stats, types of pitches(great cutters, not overpowering) and they both have sideburns, with almost identical records in 2002, and they both had horrible starts last year and then rebounded..... Oh and did you know that they are pretty good friends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 GM tells Valentin he's staying put Shortstop says Williams downplayed latest trade rumor By Scott Merkin / MLB.com CHICAGO -- What is the greatest baseball selling point for White Sox shortstop Jose Valentin? What is that definitive attribute causing Valentin to be mentioned in trade talks with Seattle, Texas and, earlier Friday, with the New York Yankees and Anaheim Angels? It could be Valentin's consistent 25-home run power, posting 106 round-trippers during his four years on the South Side. It's not as rare of a commodity at shortstop as it was in years past, but it's still a skill found on very few teams. Maybe it's Valentin's strong clubhouse leadership or the fact that he's coming off an excellent defensive campaign. It could be that, whatever the reason, Valentin simply fits in the trade proposal. The question was one pondered Friday by the 34-year-old veteran, as the White Sox 12th Annual FanFest began at the Hyatt Regency in downtown Chicago. "A lot of people must like my name because everybody has been throwing it out there," said Valentin, who was featured in many Hot Stove trade talks, along with teammates Magglio Ordonez, Paul Konerko and Billy Koch. "I always think that's a positive. "I'm not scared about it because I have no control or no choice where I go," Valentin added. "I wish I could say I don't want to go anywhere and stay in Chicago, but I can't do that." Prior to the opening introductions of the White Sox players, past and present, the Chicago Tribune reported that Valentin could go to New York for prospects and temporarily fill the void at third base created by Aaron Boone's recent knee injury suffered during a basketball game. Valentin played 149 games at third base between the 2001 and 2002 seasons, although his preference is to play shortstop. The more complicated proposed scenario in the same Tribune article sent Valentin and Konerko to Anaheim, third baseman Troy Glaus from the Angels to New York and left-handed starter Jarrod Washburn and outfielder Darrin Erstad to Chicago. The Yankees would then send prospects to both the White Sox and Angels. But Valentin wore the confident smile of a player going nowhere fast when he met with the media 90 minutes before the start of the weekend White Sox festivities. It stemmed from a talk he had with White Sox general manager Ken Williams one hour earlier. "I was told by my GM today that I'm not going anywhere," Valentin said. "I don't have to worry about that now. I will report to Tucson on Feb. 25 and, in the beginning of the year, I will be wearing a White Sox uniform. Who knows what will happen after that? Hopefully, I will be wearing this uniform for three or four more years. "(Williams) asked me if I saw the (Tribune story). I said I did. And he said, 'You aren't going anywhere.' I didn't ask for it. He told me." The media heard that same sentiment from Williams on Friday, although he acknowledged the newspaper report presented an interesting breakdown of the three-way maneuver. "That report, the article and opinions expressed within it, kind of gives people some insight into how a three-way deal could possibly work and how those things come about," Williams said. "I would expect, in terms of all that was contained there, that Jose Valentin will be our Opening Day shortstop. "I have a lot of conversations with (other teams), multiple conversations, and things get out here and there. With that particular club (Anaheim), there hasn't been a match. If something was out there to make our club better, it would have been done." Valentin, who had his $5 million option picked up by the White Sox for 2004, hit .237 in 2003 and matched a career-high with 28 home runs. He admitted to a strong possibility crossing his mind earlier in the offseason that he would be with another team, especially when Boston's All-Star shortstop Nomar Garciaparra was rumored as headed to the White Sox as part of the Alex Rodriguez/Manny Ramirez/Magglio Ordonez blockbuster. "I watch him playing shortstop, and I knew he wouldn't play in center field for us," said Valentin with a smile when talking of Garciaparra. "They would either move me to another position or send me somewhere else." For now, Valentin doesn't have to worry. He will be alongside his third double-play partner in less than two seasons, with Willie Harris taking over at second, while helping Juan Uribe adjust as a White Sox infielder. Valentin enjoys playing for the White Sox, where his career took off after being traded from Milwaukee in 2000. But in all honesty, he's almost as glad not to be headed to New York. "I was starting to go crazy because my wife said she didn't want to go to New York," Valentin said. "I would be broke there, and she would be shopping all day. But I'm going to be a White Sox player." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 GM tells Valentin he's staying put Great... I'd love to see how KW will defend picking up a $5 million option on a guy who will hit .220 with 28 HR's in '04, when he claims the team is already over-budget. He has hit at that clip the last 3 season and it's gotten the team nowhere I like Jose, but not at 5 mil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 GM tells Valentin he's staying put Well, you can cancel the post game show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 I like any trade rumor that doesn't have Ordonez involved. Me too - if he's going to leave town, and he will, then let's milk his last season here for all it's worth. As for Washburn giving up a ton of dingers, as long as they are solo shots, it's not the end of the world. I read today that the new Dodgers owner says his payroll will be in excess of 100 million. I would lean more towards a Sox/Dodgers deal than anthing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 "I was told by my GM today that I'm not going anywhere," Valentin said. "I don't have to worry about that now. I will report to Tucson on Feb. 25 and, in the beginning of the year, I will be wearing a White Sox uniform. Who knows what will happen after that? Hopefully, I will be wearing this uniform for three or four more years. That seals it, this trade is going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Valentin's getting his Greyhound ticket as we speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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