Guest JimH Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 kw was an ass, jim , they were taking the microphone away from people when they were asking stuff that got too negative..kenny told that one guy ...yeah , thats nice , now whats your qustion....he said to another guy ..that better not be your question because if it is im go come out firing at you....hawk had to jump in and stop kenny after that buy saying i think alot of this negativety comes from one sports writer , if i can call him that and went on to blast marriotti...trying to get the crowd back on their side..ozzie handled himself real well...even told kenny once after kenny said willie harris is our 2nd baseman that willie will play if he hits...ozzie took all the negativity in stride...even rick hahn did this year as opposed to last year when he wasd the one shooting daggers out of his eyes at cwsox ..remember that cw?? all KW had to do was say something like this , atleast this what i was looking for...... i made mistakes in the past..i acknowledge those...i was a young GM , i had to learn on the fly...as you can tell from this year my strategy is different...im not trying to make one blockbuster trade just to make one that ends up hurting the team..i had similiar type offers on the table this year but learning from my past mistakes i believe that none of those offers were good for the white sox team so we didnt make them this year..when the time is right and i can get the trade that will help this tean i will make it...ive learned from my mistakes and i hope you'll get behind me and those 25 guys on the field and support us... if he said something that like the whole mood would have changed..he would have probably gotten a standing O from the crowd..he would have gotten one from me...instead he is acting in disbelief..like how dare these fans question...thats why the questions got worse and worse as the session went on.. Here's my take on you: This guy could cure cancer, create world peace, eliminate hunger in the world AND win a World Series and you'd have some kind of problem with how he did it, how he said it, how he eyeballed you, etc. When you got up and asked your question, or should I say started on your monologue, if you wanted to ask him to resign ... GO AHEAD AND ASK. Stop beating around the bush, it was obvious by your tone of voice you were nervous about being up there to start with. Steff sat right behind me. I didn't know it was her until I heard her commenting to those in her row about things the panel had to say, and then I put 2 and 2 together. Either she or someone in her row said right after you finished your little speech, "I didn't hear you ask him to resign, Baggs". And then I called over to you with the same statement as you walked back to your seat. As for the red haired girl holding the mike, blame her if you wish. Everybody else got their statement out. How in the hell do you know he was thinking, "how dare these fans ask these questions." You don't, so stop trying to paint it as if you know what the guy is thinking. If he and the rest of the panel were amazed at anything, it'd be my guess they were surprised at the know-it-all and over-the-top hostility and bad manners from many in that room. And I wouldn't blame them one bit. You talked here on this web site for two weeks about how you were gonna make a big speech and ask him to resign. You didn't get it done, and now you blame some red haired girl holding a microphone who supposedly has KGB-esque quality to limit free speech? Please. P.S. - Once again, I will state that I do not agree with everything KW does. Far from it. Nor do I agree with all of his responses last nite. But there were a bunch more people in that room who handled themselves much worse than anybody on that panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Here's my take on you: This guy could cure cancer, create world peace, eliminate hunger in the world AND win a World Series and you'd have some kind of problem with how he did it, how he said it, how he eyeballed you, etc. When you got up and asked your question, or should I say started on your monologue, if you wanted to ask him to resign ... GO AHEAD AND ASK. Stop beating around the bush, it was obvious by your tone of voice you were nervous about being up there to start with. Steff sat right behind me. I didn't know it was her until I heard her commenting to those in her row about things the panel had to say, and then I put 2 and 2 together. Either she or someone in her row said right after you finished your little speech, "I didn't hear you ask him to resign, Baggs". And then I called over to you with the same statement as you walked back to your seat. As for the red haired girl holding the mike, blame her if you wish. Everybody else got their statement out. How in the hell do you know he was thinking, "how dare these fans ask these questions." You don't, so stop trying to paint it as if you know what the guy is thinking. If he and the rest of the panel were amazed at anything, it'd be my guess they were surprised at the know-it-all and over-the-top hostility and bad manners from many in that room. And I wouldn't blame them one bit. You talked here on this web site for two weeks about how you were gonna make a big speech and ask him to resign. You didn't get it done, and now you blame some red haired girl holding a microphone who supposedly has KGB-esque quality to limit free speech? Please. P.S. - Once again, I will state that I do not agree with everything KW does. Far from it. Nor do I agree with all of his responses last nite. But there were a bunch more people in that room who handled themselves much worse than anybody on that panel. i already answered that jim...i messed it up..said i needed to work on my public speaking skills..your right ,i was nervous...unlike a certain GM...i can admit when i screwed up...but the girl did take the mic away from me...and looking at it from your POV your are probably right , because i didnt get to my point in time..ill have to work on that for next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Baggs ... one more thing. I have nothing against you personally, we've never met. I understand being upset with this team, believe me I do, I am a season ticket holder just like many of you. I think there's a right way and a wrong way to express things in a public forum. Further, I think the panel realized many of the people who asked questions, and those who comprised the peanut gallery of shouting out sarsactic insults were not going to be reasoned with. If KW or Hawk or anyone up there didn't come out firing against that sort of over-the-top negativity (and downright rudeness, in my book) you same people would've criticized them for being WIMPS. Just like Jerry Manuel ... right? Often, that is the best way to confront a confrontation ... hit it head on. I talked to several people after the seminar who admired how the panel handled themselves. I will quote one guy I talked to: "If any of those drunken assholes woulda came out firing at me, they'd have gotten it right back, 10 times worse." So I guess you and Steff and everyone else can fire at KW, but when he does it back to you ... he's an ass? In my opinion, that's a little hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 jim i think he was an ass for getting personal..especially with that one guy..telling him yeah thats nice now whats your question..all the guy was saying was he was a college kid on a budget and spent what disposable income he has on the sox...that was uncalled for..dont you agree???...or the part about if thats your question im gonna rip on you???... why cant KW admit he made a mistake???...i just did it..its not a sign of weakness....you cant improve if youre not willing to admit failure and he never does...so he is going to be prone to making the same mistakes over and over... if i could see some growth in the guy as a GM and a person ill start to change my tune because i really dont want to have to go through another learning curve with a rookie GM,...which is what we'd get...but if KW cant improve then we might as well get started.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Actually, not to beat this topic to death, but I really like how KW handled HSC's spiel about going to minor league games, Aaron Miles, etc. He basically said, "this is what we do for a living, we liked Aaron Miles too, but we do this full time". And then he went on to explain how the Sox have gotten numerous prospects back in trades, mentioned the Lofton deal, and said he could talk about prospects they've gotten back all day. That #1 farm system notion you and she have got stuck in your head is strictly Baseball America's OPINION, of those prospects at that particular time. Baseball America was flat out WRONG about their opinion of several guys. How can I say they were wrong? Those guys have not panned out. And yet, this source of media (BA) is believed, and used to base an argument against Williams. Other things in the media are dismissed, specifically things Williams says in the media, because they are "lies" or "KW spin". Double standard. Their problem has not been the prospects they've traded away. Few (if any?) have had an impact with their new clubs. Drafting has been a problem. They reassigned the head scouting guy last summer. Is that not taking a step to rectify the problem (rightly or wrongly)? How can Williams or Hahn try to reason with a person who says we've traded away all our good prospects, now the farm system is poor, etc. etc. When they haven't looked at it trade-by-trade and analyzed the FACTS. Answer: they can't reason with those people. Because those people will always be right. Just ask them. Chances are, they're not just right about the White Sox, they're right about EVERYTHING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 jim , one more thing..i think the papers made that out to be alot worse than it really was...the sun times said that when ozzie said his favorite player was frank half the crowd cheered and the other half booed...that wasnt the case..i think about 90% cheered ozzie for that..that was the most positive part of the Q and A..there were people that got up and defended KW...it was about 2 to 1 against him but it wasnt 2500 people wanting to hunt him down with pitchforks and torches like the papers made it sound... KW probably gets a 7 digit salary...i think he can handle fans that are beyond frustrated for 2 days because they and their families have been pouring money into this franchise for generations and for 90% of the time see a mediocre product at best and never see the promised land...he should be thnakful that this teams has fans that are frustrated....because when we get beyond frustrated we will quit coming out all together and spend more time on the golf course or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 jim i think he was an ass for getting personal..especially with that one guy..telling him yeah thats nice now whats your question..all the guy was saying was he was a college kid on a budget and spent what disposable income he has on the sox...that was uncalled for..dont you agree???...or the part about if thats your question im gonna rip on you???... why cant KW admit he made a mistake???...i just did it..its not a sign of weakness....you cant improve if youre not willing to admit failure and he never does...so he is going to be prone to making the same mistakes over and over... if i could see some growth in the guy as a GM and a person ill start to change my tune because i really dont want to have to go through another learning curve with a rookie GM,...which is what we'd get...but if KW cant improve then we might as well get started.. I think Baggs if KW could have the comment back about the 35 year old guy who just graduated college, he probably would. It was sarcastic humor, used at the wrong time. By the same token that guy was taking forever to MAKE HIS f***ING POINT, and there were other people in line waiting to ask questions. They had limited time. They extended things 20 minutes or so. People get up there and think this is their Andy Warhol moment, their 15 minutes of fame. That little 7 year old girl did a better job of getting to the point than did the 35 year old fresh college grad. I also thought Hawks speech about Mariotti, while interesting, was something he had in his back pocket, and was used when it was clear the crowd was hostile. Seems like everyone in the room agreed on Mariotti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Absolutely agree on the Guillen/Frank thing. There was one guy who really went out of his way to defend KW. That guy was hammered!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 They reassigned the head scouting guy last summer. Is that not taking a step to rectify the problem (rightly or wrongly)? Didn't the Sox hire the same guy who put together that great Brewer farm system that's in place now? Also, I've agreed with everything you've said in this thread Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Didn't the Sox hire the same guy who put together that great Brewer farm system that's in place now? Also, I've agreed with everything you've said in this thread Jim. Cali, in a way, yes. They hired Dave Wilder to oversee the whole player development area. The guy I was referring to was Doug Laumann, he was the point man and lead scouting guy for the past few drafts. Rex knows the whole story on this. While Laumann may have been reassigned for political reasons, the net effect is the same. Scouting is a problem, your lead scouting guy gets reassigned. I may be oversimplifying things a bit, but I was glad to see some changes as I'm as frustrated as anyone they can't seem to get these young arms to have an impact at the ML level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Actually, not to beat this topic to death, but I really like how KW handled HSC's spiel about going to minor league games, Aaron Miles, etc. He basically said, "this is what we do for a living, we liked Aaron Miles too, but we do this full time". And then he went on to explain how the Sox have gotten numerous prospects back in trades, mentioned the Lofton deal, and said he could talk about prospects they've gotten back all day. That #1 farm system notion you and she have got stuck in your head is strictly Baseball America's OPINION, of those prospects at that particular time. Baseball America was flat out WRONG about their opinion of several guys. How can I say they were wrong? Those guys have not panned out. And yet, this source of media (BA) is believed, and used to base an argument against Williams. Other things in the media are dismissed, specifically things Williams says in the media, because they are "lies" or "KW spin". Double standard. Their problem has not been the prospects they've traded away. Few (if any?) have had an impact with their new clubs. Drafting has been a problem. They reassigned the head scouting guy last summer. Is that not taking a step to rectify the problem (rightly or wrongly)? How can Williams or Hahn try to reason with a person who says we've traded away all our good prospects, now the farm system is poor, etc. etc. When they haven't looked at it trade-by-trade and analyzed the FACTS. Answer: they can't reason with those people. Because those people will always be right. Just ask them. Chances are, they're not just right about the White Sox, they're right about EVERYTHING. actually his answer to HSC was that we didnt have a back up SS in case jose went down and that eventhough we liked miles , he cant play SS and we needed a utility guy that can play both 2nd and SS...which i though was a good answer for her questionthen he went about how we just see things different about miles then ozzie jumped in asking if anyone ever saw uribe play SS because he is a stud defensively... i just wish we were talking about willie harris going to colorado instead of aaron miles....but miles is said to have the inside track for 2nd base in colorado so ill guess we will find out who was right..HSC or KW...ill go with HSC..call it woman's intuition or whatever but she seems to have a knack for figuring out who inthe minors can really play...myself...i really liked miles because he is a real hard nose kid who at 5'6" had to fight and claw to get to this level because when you are that small right away you are behind the 8 ball....he seems to have exactly what ozzie and kenny are saying they want in a player...that grinder mentality...i dont see that so much in harris so i thought it odd it was miles and not harris that went to colorado..maybe colorado would only make the deal if it was miles... but really both harris and miles might never make and then uribe , if he's not a royce clayton clone , which i dont think he is because his range factor numbers are through the roof , this could end up in the KW winner column..and he needs some wins... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Cali, in a way, yes. They hired Dave Wilder to oversee the whole player development area. The guy I was referring to was Doug Laumann, he was the point man and lead scouting guy for the past few drafts. Rex knows the whole story on this. While Laumann may have been reassigned for political reasons, the net effect is the same. Scouting is a problem, your lead scouting guy gets reassigned. I may be oversimplifying things a bit, but I was glad to see some changes as I'm as frustrated as anyone they can't seem to get these young arms to have an impact at the ML level. I couldn't remember what the deal was, I knew it was one of the guys from the Brewers, I just didn't know how, if at all, he was responsible for the state of the Brewers farms system now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 i just wish we were talking about willie harris going to colorado instead of aaron miles....but miles is said to have the inside track for 2nd base in colorado so ill guess we will find out who was right..HSC or KW...ill go with HSC..call it woman's intuition or whatever but she seems to have a knack for figuring out who inthe minors can really play Well just remember he is hitting in the thin air half of the time, so any impressive numbers he puts up will be inflated a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 actually his answer to HSC was that we didnt have a back up SS in case jose went down and that eventhough we liked miles , he cant play SS and we needed a utility guy that can play both 2nd and SS...which i though was a good answer for her questionthen he went about how we just see things different about miles then ozzie jumped in asking if anyone ever saw uribe play SS because he is a stud defensively... Exactly, yes, this is what he said after basically saying "we do this full time". And Guillen's point about "has anyone seen Uribe play" was a good one. I liked Miles, I saw him play about 7-8 times. He's a grinder, no doubt. I didn't like his plate discipline nor his range at 2nd base. But that's just my opinion after seeing him several times, I'm not an expert by any stretch. I will go with the scouts who've seen both of them play countless times. No disrespect whatsoever to hsc's opinion, but I hope she's wrong on Miles being the better player over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Well just remember he is hitting in the thin air half of the time, so any impressive numbers he puts up will be inflated a bit doesnt that mean that the meager numbers uribe put up in colorado were inflated too??...thats the part of uribe's game that really scares me..he couldnt carry at 300 OBP in colorado...we could be looking at a 200 hitter with a 240 obp.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 doesnt that mean that the meager numbers uribe put up in colorado were inflated too??...thats the part of uribe's game that really scares me..he couldnt carry at 300 OBP in colorado...we could be looking at a 200 hitter with a 240 obp.. I have the same worries about Uribe. This is where Guillen should come in, he significantly helped Gonzalez, the SS with the Marlins, by all accounts. If the guy has an upside as a starting SS, it's a good gamble. Which goes back to scouting the last, oh, 25 years, re: shortstops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 I have the same worries about Uribe. This is where Guillen should come in, he significantly helped Gonzalez, the SS with the Marlins, by all accounts. If the guy has an upside as a starting SS, it's a good gamble. Which goes back to scouting the last, oh, 25 years, re: shortstops. i agree on ozzie...of course ozzie wasnt exactly patient at the dish either i agree on our scouts...our picks just dont pan out at the rate they should Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 She didn't cause a scene. She was asking the question, Williams thought she was done making her point, he started answering, and she said something like "Kenny, I'm not finished". She said something to him at the start of the question like, "I'm Stephanie, from Plainfield, hi neighbor" ... something like that, to KW. It was a sullen, sarcastic, borderline hostile crowd, or at least the majority were. I also sensed a few who'd been freely hitting the beer taps before the seminar, perhaps to get their courage up. Baggio asked a question but did not ask KW to resign, as he said he would. HSC described how she follows the farm teams, goes to games in Birmingham, Louisville, etc. (some guy was heard to say "we're happy for ya, lady") and berated KW about Aaron Miles. KW's response was basically. "well, we liked Aaron Miles too, but we do this for a living". The clear implication was they (Sox personnel) were more qualified to make a personnel judgement. Time will tell. There was a significant amount of people grumbling under their breath with every response. I think it showed a lack of courtesy, as other people were trying to listen to the responses. Hawk tried to get the crowd on his side, but this group was having none of it. He went off on Mariotti, stating he's seen Mariotti at the ballpark once, and only once. He also commented how he and DJ haven't told people "the other side" of some of these media people, and promised he'd do that this year. The "kid" who asked about ticket prices, i.e. "I just got out of school, I'm on a budget but have a job", etc. took forever to make his point. There were a number of people waiting in line to ask questions. This "kid" looked to me to be about 35. I could be wrong. But he was obviously clueless, asking why the U.S. Cellular money wasn't being pumped into player personnel. It's only been reported 100+ times that money is for ballpark improvements ONLY. My Take: People are entitled to their opinions, and people are entitled to be angry. The same goes for the panelists (KW, DJ, Hawk, Hahn, Guillen). But remember ... It's not all about YOU. Show a little respect for other people in the room. Shut your yap when these guys are answering questions, so other people sitting around you can hear the responses. No one is impressed with how smart you are, or how smart you think you are. I thought it was a fair, open, frank exchange of thoughts and ideas. I also felt the panel showed more composure and class than the fans. Just my .02 One more thing ... There was a guy sitting next to me who turned around 3-4 times and told Steff to pipe down. He called her by name. I asked him who he was, and he acted like he was some kind of undercover agent who couldn't reveal his indentity. I asked if he was one of our posters, and he snapped "no, I'm not part of any web site". I did not get the chance to introduce myself, as he was listening intently, as was I. So whoever you are ... sorry if I bothered you by asking who you were. To secret agent loser....to HSC/Miles.....to Hawk vowing to get Mariotti....to Ozzie's "you so negative".....to the rambling student.....to "I am not finished....neighbor".... Please tell me there was a Soxtalk-WSI smack talk later on Pleeeeeeeaaaasssseeee.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 there is some real excellent debate going on in this thread, thanks to everyone who contributed (especially baggio and jimh). made me feel like i was there when reading the posts. looking forward to finding out how today's q & a went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 there is some real excellent debate going on in this thread, thanks to everyone who contributed (especially baggio and jimh). made me feel like i was there when reading the posts. looking forward to finding out how today's q & a went. I do agree. I wish I could have been at Soxfest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 In my opinion KW kind of asked for this reaction.... He and Reinsdorf have come out in the press and said basically if White Sox fans support the team we will add payroll.... If that's going to be their direction fine, but Sox fans should then be able to explain to him why they might not want to support the product.... Dan Bernstein on WSCR was talking about this last week.... In my opinion KW has challenged the fans so the fans are answering back I totally agree that people should be civil and ask sensible questions which don't ramble on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Cali, in a way, yes. They hired Dave Wilder to oversee the whole player development area. The guy I was referring to was Doug Laumann, he was the point man and lead scouting guy for the past few drafts. Rex knows the whole story on this. While Laumann may have been reassigned for political reasons, the net effect is the same. Scouting is a problem, your lead scouting guy gets reassigned. I may be oversimplifying things a bit, but I was glad to see some changes as I'm as frustrated as anyone they can't seem to get these young arms to have an impact at the ML level. Jim, the problem with that premise is, Laumann was only in charge of the last 2-3 drafts. Those drafts have been considered pretty strong ones. There are a lot of things that go into player development. Good drafts are important. So are getting good kids and weeding out the bad ones early. No matter how good a kid is, if all he wants to do is booze it up, party and chase women, it will show on the field. Some guys are talented to get past that until they get to the higher levels. Others flop in their first few years. Coaches and instructors have a major impact on player development as well. Not only their abilities to coach, but the continuity of what they are teaching as well. If a kid gets promoted from AA to AAA and the hitting coach up there teaches things that contradict what the AA guy did, problems will occur. Training and Strength and Conditioning programs will impact a player's success. I do believe the Sox have problems in their PD system. I don't think the probems rest solely with scouting. Based on my contacts in various places and the amount of games I see each year, I probably know more about the Sox PD system than anyone on this board. YET, I can't pinpoint where the problems are. I can't see any common links. Based on that, it probably isn't that easy for the Sox to find the problems other than to put a band on here and there, and they have 10x the information and knowhow that I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Jim, the problem with that premise is, Laumann was only in charge of the last 2-3 drafts. Those drafts have been considered pretty strong ones. There are a lot of things that go into player development. Good drafts are important. So are getting good kids and weeding out the bad ones early. No matter how good a kid is, if all he wants to do is booze it up, party and chase women, it will show on the field. Some guys are talented to get past that until they get to the higher levels. Others flop in their first few years. Coaches and instructors have a major impact on player development as well. Not only their abilities to coach, but the continuity of what they are teaching as well. If a kid gets promoted from AA to AAA and the hitting coach up there teaches things that contradict what the AA guy did, problems will occur. Training and Strength and Conditioning programs will impact a player's success. I do believe the Sox have problems in their PD system. I don't think the probems rest solely with scouting. Based on my contacts in various places and the amount of games I see each year, I probably know more about the Sox PD system than anyone on this board. YET, I can't pinpoint where the problems are. I can't see any common links. Based on that, it probably isn't that easy for the Sox to find the problems other than to put a band on here and there, and they have 10x the information and knowhow that I do. if they cant figure out the problem do you think it might be a good idea to clean house and start over...keeping only the very best scouts and PD people???...if they can even figure who that might be.. i guess they could keep analyzing it but there comes a time where you get paralysis by analysis.. i agree something is wrong...our farm system has so far produced one everyday player thats solidified his postion since carlos lee..that being joe crede.. one thing that really still nags ay me..maybe you can answer this...we heard alot last year about d'angelo jimenez being a better prospect than soriano was when both were with the yankees..our scouts loved this guy (supposedly)...when he took the field last year i really cant think of a ball player that was more unprepared for playing major league baseball...the mistakes , both physical and mental , were so bad i dont any 16 inch softball team on the south side would have pick him up ..and the big thing was right before we made the trade his teammates in SD came out ripped him to shreds..saying he was such a spoiled brat(my take) that no one on the team would even talk to him...dont our scouts see any of this???..he has no business in the majors...he is so fundementally unsound...how could they not see that??? also leaves me absolutely no confidence in anything any of the sox personell say about willie harris..as bad as jimenez was...harris couldnt beat him out...thats freakin scary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 KW wanted Jiminez, I believe. Sometimes they look at a guy and see his flaws and what is keeping him from excelling and think they can fix the problems. What happens a lot of times is that the character and lack of work ethic of a player keeps that process from helping. Sometimes talent is easier to rate than character. Obviously the team trading a player isn't going to volunteer that the guy is a slug and a cloubhouse problem. Baggs, here is your assignment..... Find a way to objectively compare our farm system with others. How many everyday players/regular pitchers have other teams produced in recent years. My guess is, that the Sox have had no more injuries than most teams and are somewhere in the middle in regards to the number of players they have promoted. Good luck and we will look forward to you report! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 KW wanted Jiminez, I believe. Sometimes they look at a guy and see his flaws and what is keeping him from excelling and think they can fix the problems. What happens a lot of times is that the character and lack of work ethic of a player keeps that process from helping. Sometimes talent is easier to rate than character. Obviously the team trading a player isn't going to volunteer that the guy is a slug and a cloubhouse problem. Baggs, here is your assignment..... Find a way to objectively compare our farm system with others. How many everyday players/regular pitchers have other teams produced in recent years. My guess is, that the Sox have had no more injuries than most teams and are somewhere in the middle in regards to the number of players they have promoted. Good luck and we will look forward to you report! man..thats a project...trying to access every team..since you are the resident expert on minor league can you give me 6 teams to start with???...3 that you think are better than the sox and 3 that are worse...then ill go to their teams boards..get fan reaction on what their take is and try to come up with some stats.. also..what about players that change systems??..for example would jon garland be a product of our farm system or the cubs???..aaron miles , ours or houston's??...if alex fernandez were to crack the line up in san diego who would get credit for him???..gotta give me more guildlines cause im a :dips*** , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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