Thomas looking for hits

[Steff]

more like

Or...

 

:knob

[Steve Bartman's my idol]

Last time I checked the roster it appaeared that Frank Thomas was an adult. I think whatever he wants to do on any night of the week is his business as long as it is legal. Too much is being made of this fuss and the only thing that will get it settled I believe is Spring Training.

You really consider Frank an adult, with the way that he has been acting the last few years? Its too bad he can't go back about 7 years ago when he was a team player and not someone just worried about his personal stats.

[southsideirish]

Why the hell was my post deleted?

[Pastime]

Bartman,

 

Do you ever get vacation time away from work? I assume that you do.

 

If you do, then do you expect your bosses to call you, and then expect a return phone call from you about what you're doing away from the job?

 

I don't know about you, but when I'm vacation, my bosses can go scratch themselves with a cactus if they think I'm thinking about them or returning any of their phone calls.

 

This the offseason, and it's Frank's time off. If he wants to do what he chooses, that's his prerogative and his business. If he doesn't want to talk with Kenny or Ozzie, that's his choice, and HE'S NOT WRONG FOR THAT. This is his off-time and his offseason.

 

God forbid Frank didn't talk to anyone during HIS VACATION AND OFFSEASON. I think we should just revolt, stop the presses and the world, and then b**** incessantly until our voices are dead.

 

[southsideirish]

Bartman,

 

Do you ever get vacation time away from work?  I assume that you do. 

 

If you do, then do you expect your bosses to call you, and then expect a return phone call from you about what you're doing away from the job?

 

I don't know about you, but when I'm vacation, my bosses can go scratch themselves with a cactus if they think I'm thinking about them or returning any of their phone calls. 

 

This the offseason, and it's Frank's time off.  If he wants to do what he chooses, that's his prerogative and his business.  If he doesn't want to talk with Kenny or Ozzie, that's his choice, and HE'S NOT WRONG FOR THAT.  This is his off-time and his offseason. 

 

God forbid Frank didn't talk to anyone during HIS VACATION AND OFFSEASON.  I think we should just revolt, stop the presses and the world, and then b**** incessantly until our voices are dead. 

 

How much do you get paid? How long are your vacations? I don't believe that it is a "vacation", it is just considered the offseason. He should still respect his boss enough to call him back. He doesn't have to be at his boss' beck and call as it seems you are implying, just a little common courtesy of a return phone call is what they are asking for. He is wrong for not returning his boss' phone call. There is a lack of respect that goes along with that. Kenny returned the favor by showing Frank a lack of respect by going public with that. They are both wrong with what they have done. BOTH OF THEM ARE WRONG!!

 

:banghead

[Pastime]

I get 8 weeks paid vacation, and I let it be known VERY CLEARLY that no one should call me or try to reach me when I'm on vacation. It's pretty damn clear to everyone in the office.

 

I have been on vacation, and I've had calls and pages directed to me - I ignore them. My vacation is MY TIME. Just like Frank's offseason is HIS TIME.

 

Don't we have bigger fish to fry in terms of the Sox than worrying about this petty bulls***?

 

I guess not.

 

But if you need another reason to hate or tear down the best player we've ever seen in a Sox uniform - have at it. Godspeed.

[southsideirish]

I get 8 weeks paid vacation, and I let it be known VERY CLEARLY that no one should call me or try to reach me when I'm on vacation.  It's pretty damn clear to everyone in the office. 

 

I have been on vacation, and I've had calls and pages directed to me - I ignore them.  My vacation is MY TIME.  Just like Frank's offseason is HIS TIME. 

 

Don't we have bigger fish to fry in terms of the Sox than worrying about this petty bulls***? 

 

I guess not. 

 

But if you need another reason to hate or tear down the best player we've ever seen in a Sox uniform - have at it.  Godspeed.

So you take 8 weeks vacation at one time?I don't think that is the case. You make it clear to the owner of the company and your supervisors that you should not be contacted? I don't think so, however I will take your word for it. When you are off for 2 or 3 months at a time it is nice to have some contact with them. In this case, as you have stated, he is the team's best player. Perhaps the best HITTER in team history. This alone makes him one of the leaders on the team. By him being one of the leaders on the team it only makes sense to get into contact with him to make sure everyone is on teh same page. We just hired a new manager who seems to want to play a completely different style than the previous manager. This is a big change. I am sure if there was a big change like this while you were on vacation then you would be contacted by your boss as well. If you did not return a call for another couple months then I am sure there would be something said to you as well. I respect your opinion that he has his time to himslef and he does, but I think he should have more respect for his bosses during a time like this.

[Dick Allen]

So you take 8 weeks vacation at one time?I don't think that is the case. You make it clear to the owner of the company and your supervisors that you should not be contacted? I don't think so, however I will take your word for it. When you are off for 2 or 3 months at a time it is nice to have some contact with them. In this case, as you have stated, he is the team's best player. Perhaps the best HITTER in team history. This alone makes him one of the leaders on the team. By him being one of the leaders on the team it only makes sense to get into contact with him to make sure everyone is on teh same page. We just hired a new manager who seems to want to play a completely different style than the previous manager. This is a big change. I am sure if there was a big change like this while you were on vacation then you would be contacted by your boss as well. If you did not return a call for another couple months then I am sure there would be something said to you as well. I respect your opinion that he has his time to himslef and he does, but I think he should have more respect for his bosses during a time like this.

Kenny Williams has spoken to Frank at the time Frank exercised his option. Kenny has not spoken to a few players for a longer time than that. One being Magglio Ordonez. Frank has spoken to Joey Cora, so Joey can relate to Ozzie what's on Frank's mind. Frank will come to camp in excellent shape, ready to play. That is all he is obligated to do.

[southsideirish]

Kenny Williams has spoken to Frank at the time Frank exercised his option. Kenny has not spoken to a few players for a longer time than that. One being Magglio Ordonez. Frank has spoken to Joey Cora, so Joey can relate to Ozzie what's on Frank's mind. Frank will come to camp in excellent shape, ready to play. That is all he is obligated to do.

And what is your point? He still did not return calls to the people who called him. That is still disrespectful any way you want to spin it.

[greasywheels121]

Fans support Thomas-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Teddy Greenstein

Tribune staff reporter

 

February 1, 2004, 7:36 PM CST

 

 

Something odd transpired over the weekend at SoxFest: Frank Thomas became a sympathetic figure to White Sox fans.

 

A multimillionaire who stands 6 feet 5 inches and weighs 275 pounds, Thomas suddenly has common folk watching his back.

 

Chalk it up to a turbulent off-season in which Thomas, fresh off a 42-homer campaign, took body blows from new manager Ozzie Guillen and then had his manners scrutinized by general manager Ken Williams, who disclosed that Thomas had not been returning his phone calls.

 

Although Thomas blew off SoxFest this year, he was very much on the minds of some fans who showed up.

 

During Friday's question-and-answer session with members of the front office, a woman took the microphone and began lecturing Williams. Although the woman acknowledged she'd be in big trouble if she didn't return calls from her boss, she said: "It's not appropriate to broadcast your issues with Frank Thomas. That's none of our business, and it puts him in a bad light."

 

Williams responded that he was simply trying to be straight with the media.

 

"When I look at the presidential candidates," he said, "I look for honesty, someone who will give it to me straight."

 

An admirable stance, to be sure. But then again, Williams didn't have to tell us about Thomas' voice-mail issues.

 

The question came up on Jan. 23 after Shingo Takatsu's introductory press conference. That's when Williams was asked if he had been in contact with Thomas.

 

Williams simply could have said, "No, I'll see him in a few weeks at spring training."

 

Instead Williams mentioned the phone calls, adding, "I think it's on Frank at this point to reach out to us because we've made the overtures."

 

Guillen, too, tried to contact Thomas repeatedly. Thomas didn't get back to him either.

 

Perhaps it had something to do with what Guillen said after he was named manager on Nov. 3: "I have no problem with Frank as long as he plays the game right. When he does stuff on the field to disrespect the team, he's not respecting himself. If he hits a fly ball and doesn't run the bases, Frank won't get another at-bat. ... I'm not talking about just Frank. I'm talking about everyone."

 

Guillen has tried to distance himself from those sentiments by stressing the final part: His rules apply to everyone. Guillen also said only four people need to return his calls--his wife and three kids.

 

"Frank and I are friends," Guillen said.

 

Guillen tried to prove that during Friday's session after a young fan asked everyone on the panel to name his favorite Sox player.

 

After Darrin Jackson said he was pulling for Jon Garland and Hawk Harrelson picked Carlos Lee, Williams declined to answer. Then it was Guillen's turn. Rowdy fans began screaming, "Frank! Frank! Frank!"

 

Guillen, who can play a crowd like P.T. Barnum, obliged the masses by picking Thomas and saying, "Believe me, he'll have an MVP year."

 

A nice thought, but maybe Guillen and Williams should have stuck with their original plan.

 

After another fan complained to Williams on Saturday about his decision to air Thomas' "dirty laundry," Harrelson jumped in.

 

"Let's hope this keeps up," he said, "because Frank's a better player when he has an edge on him."

 

So maybe an angry Frank is a productive Frank. Some of Thomas' teammates have been critical of him. Others are supportive. All are perplexed by the attention he receives.

 

Jose Valentin told reporters Friday that Thomas "has to straighten some things up. He has to be a man on the field, off the field and in the clubhouse. He has to understand that the back of his jersey says `Thomas,' but it says `White Sox' on the front. We all play for the same team. When we win, we'll all get to wear the same kind of ring."

 

But later Valentin said: "I've been here for five years, and every year it's, `Frank this, Frank that.' You just have to leave him alone."

 

Mark Buehrle ran into Thomas recently in Las Vegas, but Thomas was gambling at the Palms Casino and Buehrle didn't want to interrupt. Buehrle said it was "kind of rude" that Thomas hadn't returned his bosses' phone calls, but he didn't believe Thomas' reticence was meant as an insult. Buehrle is the rare athlete who likes to give an honest answer, rather than one that simply sounds good.

 

Williams would have to admire that.

[SoxAce]

During Friday's question-and-answer session with members of the front office, a woman took the microphone and began lecturing Williams. Although the woman acknowledged she'd be in big trouble if she didn't return calls from her boss, she said: "It's not appropriate to broadcast your issues with Frank Thomas. That's none of our business, and it puts him in a bad light."

 

I wonder who that "woman" was?

[The Critic]

Bulls***. Just because a player is good doesnt mean he has to have leadership qualities. That goes for any sport. Some guys dont enjoy the added pressure. Being a leader adds alot of responsibility, and some guys dont want it. Frank sure as hell doesnt sound like a leader, and I think its unfair to put him in that position just because he is one hell of a ball player.

Perfect example is Scottie Pippen.

Great second banana, awful leader.

[southsideirish]

Or...

 

:knob

Steff, since you decided to get off the baseball subject like you promised then let me ask you this. You never gave me an answer to this question and I would really like it to be answered. You continually try to pound us that we shouldn't care about the player's personal lives. What they do on their own time is up to them and that is the way it should be. It shouldn't be reported and it shouldn't be any of our business. Then why did you feel the need to share what you did about Ray Durham last week? Here is what you shared:

 

Posted under kenny williams interview, here is what he said

 

 

Steff Posted: Jan 27 2004, 04:16 PM

 

 

Additionally.. Ray WAS loved here, and loved it here. Ray was devistated when he was traded. So much so that him and Crystal kept their townhouse for a year after he was traded in hopes that the Sox would bring him back. Ray was not the smartest guy between the lines, but he was one of the hardest workers, friendliest to fans, and always went out of his way to do things for his teammates. Ray was not a big drinker and used to be the DD on road trips and at ST.

 

Does that sound like someone who was a problem in the clubhouse to you..?

 

 

Steff Posted: Jan 27 2004, 04:39 PM

 

 

Thanks to Crystal I got to go lots of places while Ray was here.

 

You're right.. I could be BSing you... venture over to WSI and ask if you choose. I have never, and would never lie about knowing someone. Many people read here.. and trust me.. it comes back to bite you in the ass if you lie.

 

It's your perrogative to view it how you choose. After knowing someone for a decade.. watching them with their families and children.. watching them on the road with their teammates, out with their teammates, knowing their faith in God.. I'd say the odds of Ray having a dual personality are slim to none.

 

Here you tell me Ray Durham's wife's name, you told me he kept his townhouse for over a year after he was traded, he was not a big drinker, that he was the designated driver on road trips, and that he has some type of faith in God. None of this is needed to know and I didn't ask for it to be known. This portrays you as a hypocrite. Or are you just a big name dropper and feel the need to share these things to make you feel better about yourself?

 

I would like to know who sets these guidelines as to what we should know or shouldn't know about someone's personal lives. You? Should we only know the good and not the bad about someone? Please let me know as I am really confused about your stance. Get back to me as soon as you can. Thank you!

[southsideirish]

Bulls***. Just because a player is good doesnt mean he has to have leadership qualities. That goes for any sport. Some guys dont enjoy the added pressure. Being a leader adds alot of responsibility, and some guys dont want it. Frank sure as hell doesnt sound like a leader, and I think its unfair to put him in that position just because he is one hell of a ball player.

I never said he had leadership qulaities. However, being "the best players to ever put on a sox uniform", as one poster put it, and a veteran of the league and team puts him in this position. He is naturally looked up to by younger teammates. Younger teammates seem to be all Frank has these days. Whether he want's it or not he is one of the leaders of this team.

[SoxAce]

Bulls***. Just because a player is good doesnt mean he has to have leadership qualities. That goes for any sport. Some guys dont enjoy the added pressure. Being a leader adds alot of responsibility, and some guys dont want it.

That just reminded me of Frank's own teammate Magglio Ordonez in that sense.

[Dick Allen]

And what is your point? He still did not return calls to the people who called him. That is still disrespectful any way you want to spin it.

Where does it say Frank has to talk to Kenny Williams? Maybe just maybe Frank thinks KW is a jagoff and has nothing to say to him. Frank will talk to him when he has to talk to him, not a second before. Some may call it disrespectful, but would you return phone calls to someone who hates you and you hate, just so you could stroke that person's ego ?What is a conversation between KW and Frank going to accomplish anyway? Give me an example of something that must be discussed now, and can't wait until Frank reports.

[southsideirish]

Where does it say Frank has to talk to Kenny Williams? Maybe just maybe Frank thinks KW is a jagoff and has nothing to say to him. Frank will talk to him when he has to talk to him, not a second before. Some may call it disrespectful, but would you return phone calls to someone who hates you and you hate, just so you could stroke that person's ego ?What is a conversation between KW and Frank going to accomplish anyway? Give me an example of something that must be discussed now, and can't wait until Frank reports.

OK. The White Sox just hired a new manager. This new manager seems to want to coach in a totally different style than the previous manager. Maybe Kenny needs to know how he feels about this. If he wants to play 1B more often. If he is on board with how the team is going. I think Kenny should know these things before spring trainging starts to see what pieces he needs. Maybe he has to trade Frank if he isn't ok with the direction of the team. I think if Frank had just returned Ozzie's phone calls then Kenny would have not been involved. Just my opinion but I don't hink he would have. I also think you are speculating a little bit that Frank hates Kenny and Kenny hates Frank.

[southsideirish]

I'm in aggreance with you. I don't think Frank will ever make it easy on Kenny to trade him.

[SoxAce]

Yes, but I think that might have to do with the language boundery. Although Maggs does seem to be a sfot spoken guy. Someone of the Sox I see being a leader in the years to come is Creede. If he Matuers of corse, but it just seems like he might have good leaderhship qualities.

Crede is a quiet guy in the clubhouse. He just shows his play on the field, and produce. Carlos Lee is a guy I can see getting a clubhouse warm. Real funny guy. Paul Konerko is another. Hell, he spoke out against frank. He can really give his teammates a spark. And Willie Harris can get his energy in his teammates too.

[Dick Allen]

OK. The White Sox just hired a new manager. This new manager seems to want to coach in a totally different style than the previous manager. Maybe Kenny needs to know how he feels about this. If he wants to play 1B more often. If he is on board with how the team is going. I think Kenny should know these things before spring trainging starts to see what pieces he needs. Maybe he has to trade Frank if he isn't ok with the direction of the team. I think if Frank had just returned Ozzie's phone calls then Kenny would have not been involved. Just my opinion but I don't hink he would have. I also think you are speculating a little bit that Frank hates Kenny and Kenny hates Frank.

He's tried to trade Frank, but was denied by Reinsdorf. Do you know that Joey Cora talked to Frank? I'm sure he can tell Kenny and Ozzie whats going on with him. They aren't going to trade Frank. If he wanted to be traded, he would have had his agent demand a trade. He has full no trade rights as a 5 and 10 player. Someone once posted that Frank relinquished those rights in his last contract. That would be illegal. As far as playing first base goes, Frank will play there as much as the team needs him to, remember one thing, the biggest reason Frank was reluctant to play first in the past was his lack of confidence as a fielder, a lack of confidence which came from smart ass comments by his ex teammate and current manager. Ozzie was relating a story about how he was standing next to Crede, and didn't know who he was. He also didn't know or talk to many of the players on the team yet. The fact that he hasn't talked to Frank yet is a non story only made another negative White Sox story by Guillen and Williams.

[SoxAce]

Carlos I see as being a clubhouse guy. And Paully I know is liked, but its hard to talk a good game when he doesnt show it on the field all the time. and Willie has to prove alot before he can be looked at for any leadership, same goes for Aaron.

I didn't say Willie was a clubhouse leader. As hawk has said he is a BUNDLE of energy. He can motivate his players (esp. the veterans) to play with more of that energy. Your right about Pauly. But he has been having good years. Just this last season he struggled. So you can't say he dosen't show it on the field all the time. He tries hard to fix his swing to make him better.

[SoxAce]

I know ya didnt say anything about Willie, I was just talking about certain players. And with Paulie, I just think its hard to be leader when your batting 175 in the middle of the season. He has had his good years, and just needs to put a full season together.

Very true. But Paulie will speak his mind at will. That's why I believe he's going to be a good clubhouse leader, even without respectable numbers, cause he wants his team to win. Even if he was benched, he just wants to see his teammates give it their all. I'm sure they respect that even if he hits .250 (which I don't think will happen cause if was just this one bad year.)

[southsideirish]

He's tried to trade Frank, but was denied by Reinsdorf. Do you know that Joey Cora talked to Frank? I'm sure he can tell Kenny and Ozzie whats going on with him. They aren't going to trade Frank. If he wanted to be traded, he would have had his agent demand a trade. He has full no trade rights as a 5 and 10 player. Someone once posted that Frank relinquished those rights in his last contract. That would be illegal. As far as playing first base goes, Frank will play there as much as the team needs him to, remember one thing, the biggest reason Frank was reluctant to play first in the past was his lack of confidence as a fielder, a lack of confidence which came from smart ass comments by his ex teammate and current manager. Ozzie was relating a story about how he was standing next to Crede, and didn't know who he was. He also didn't know or talk to many of the players on the team yet. The fact that he hasn't talked to Frank yet is a non story only made another negative White Sox story by Guillen and Williams.

Sir, I respect your opinions. First let me say that just because he talked to Joey Cora does not mean it is ok just to dismiss the phone calls by Kenny and Ozzie. I am sure they all talk, but it is best if you show the respect to your bosses. If they call you, you should call them back just out of respect. A lot of what you say seems to be speculation mixed with fact. I agree he can't waive the 5-10 clause. I agreed they tried to trade Frank. I don't agree that they won't be able to or that he won't agree to a trade. I believe Frank asked to play 1B on the road last year to keep himself in the game as there is not a batting cage on the road for him to keep loose between innings. I can see him playing there more often if he was asked or if he asked to. Again talking to one of the leaders on the team, the veteran on the team, the "best player to wear a Sox uniform," is a lot different than talking to Joe Crede or any other player on the Sox for that matter. Frank for all intents and purposes is the White Sox to the public. That is why it is a bigger deal when he is not contacted than any other player you can name. This was not made negative by Williams and Guillen. It was turned negative by the media. However, Frank could have avoided all of this if he would have just returned a simple phone call. If you think Frank plays no part in what is happening then I don't think you could be further from the truth. He played a part in it as much as Guillen or Williams did. They are all to blame for this fiasco.

[Rooftop Shots]

Frank is in a no win situation - and maybe watching ultimate fighting will help him get ready for the Sox locker room in 2004

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!!!! Loved your comment!

[southsideirish]

Very true. But Paulie will speak his mind at will. That's why I believe he's going to be a good clubhouse leader, even without respectable numbers, cause he wants his team to win. Even if he was benched, he just wants to see his teammates give it their all. I'm sure they respect that even if he hits .250 (which I don't think will happen cause if was just this one bad year.)

Chances of people listening to you when you tell them they have to play better get a lot worse when you are hitting .250 and grounding into double plays every other at bat. That being said, I agree that Paulie will be better this year.