Soxfest Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Article on Soxnet today is all about giving KW credit for all his moves, again he DID NOT do the Colon deal. Jerry R, George S, O.Manaya and even B .Selig had a hand in deal, but JR pulled the final string, KW did NOTHING as usual and as far as all his moves even a blind squirrel finds an acorn sometimes. If any of us did our job as s***ty as KW we would have been gone a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 was smart enough to deal veterans Durham, Lofton, Alomar, and Howry for young players that will help the team in the future you really can't be serious here.. only diaz is worth anything, adkins sucks and so was the trade. i am sorry but after i read this part i stop reading your article. we are talking about some major issues of how much i agree with it. give him credit, what and how, do you want us to give him a Blow Job, sorry but that is for his wife and all his lackies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 was smart enough to deal veterans Durham, Lofton, Alomar, and Howry for young players that will help the team in the future you really can't be serious here.. only diaz is worth anything, adkins sucks and so was the trade. i am sorry but after i read this part i stop reading your article. we are talking about some major issues of how much i agree with it. give him credit, what and how, do you want us to give him a Blow Job, sorry but that is for his wife and all his lackies. i couldnt believe that line either...durham was a good trade??..we only traded an all star 2nd baseman, the best 2nd baseman we have had since nellie fox (bobby knoop excluced CW ) for some friggen bum that carried an era approaching 6 and when he was first interviewed on chicago radio said something like ...i really dont have an idea about pitching..i just throw everything hard and dont care to learn a change up...brialliant move..lets make him "GM of the year" !!!! another thing no one ever questions is KW's draft strategy...what the hell is up with drafting umteen relief pitchers???..one in the first round..wtf???..that is retarded...we have proved this year the one thing that a team that is run by cheapasses can do is sign good relief pitchers cheaply...id never draft a guy with designs on him being a reliever only this year alone if you had no bullpen at all you could have built a great one signing 5 or 6 guys for less than 10 million total..you draft starters..not the royce rings of the world... the author also failed to mention the on going KW-MB saga..regaurdless of what you think of buehrle...this is just wrong whats going on..and a good GM..whether it was his fault or not..would have fixed it by now... KW has done such a good job that we are pinning our hopes on a catcher with 21 major league at bats..a CF that feels its more important to crash motorcycles then to be ready for ST...oh..and we still have dumbass caballo in LF...GM of the year!!!! this is how bad of a GM KW is...when he actually has an off season where he doesnt frick everything up..fans look at that as being a great off season and KW being a savior... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 I am glad you mentioned Bobby Knoop because I was going to yell at you for that omission - - he was not Nellie but a damn fine 2nd baseman - as for the rest, I am confused as to why anyone would be all over us for not giving KW credit. At best, the jury is still out on him, since 2001 was all injuries and 2002 we ended up at 500. And that is at best. At worst he has f***ed over a good team. If 2003 is a great season, then we can re-evaluate KW and if not, that will move some decisions about him in only one direction - but on a 1-10 scale, the most he can get is a 5, at most, and I know you and a lot of others would give him a 1 or 2. And I have stopped arguing that one... especially since the MB-let's-jerk-around-our-ace thing - someone on the MLB boards was screaming that JR gave KW all the credit for the Colon deal - well of course JR was going to say that. This season is make or break for KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 I am glad you mentioned Bobby Knoop because I was going to yell at you for that omission - - he was not Nellie but a damn fine 2nd baseman - as for the rest, I am confused as to why anyone would be all over us for not giving KW credit. At best, the jury is still out on him, since 2001 was all injuries and 2002 we ended up at 500. And that is at best. At worst he has f***ed over a good team. If 2003 is a great season, then we can re-evaluate KW and if not, that will move some decisions about him in only one direction - but on a 1-10 scale, the most he can get is a 5, at most, and I know you and a lot of others would give him a 1 or 2. And I have stopped arguing that one... especially since the MB-let's-jerk-around-our-ace thing - someone on the MLB boards was screaming that JR gave KW all the credit for the Colon deal - well of course JR was going to say that. This season is make or break for KW. your last sentence hit the nail on the head..with the all star game in our home..if this team tanks under that national spolight..its bye bye KW for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 If a new general manager descended from the heavens, the first thing he would do would be to have a face to face with MB and fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 So you think that JR made a KW-ish move to make it look like KW did it? He traded 3 players and cash for Colon and Nunez, a minor leaguer....he's done that 3 times in the past 2 years....traded 3 players, along with cash, for 1 main player and a minor leaguer or two. Think about it. I give KW credit for the Colon deal....he did good for us. He's not a good GM by any means. He's f***ed up the MB situation, he f***ed up with the Ritchie trade, he f***ed up trading for Clayton....point blank - he's f***ed up a lot. However, why are you guys so ignorant in the fact that KW was actually the mastermind behind the whole Colon deal? He did do it, along with some help. Just because he got some help doesn't mean he didn't do most of it. If a player hits a 3-run homer to win the game, he'll get a lot of credit for it....in fact, he'll get most of it. But where is he if the 2 runners ahead of him didn't get on? He's not in the spotlight, that's for damn sure. Or in other words, he got help, but will get most of the credit. However, I agree with cwsox....if we are bad this year, KW is gone. He's made numerous bad trades, but with the moves he's made this offseason, he could be pretty damn good...if we aren't, then KW is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Point #1: So you think that JR made a KW-ish move to make it look like KW did it? He traded 3 players and cash for Colon and Nunez, a minor leaguer....he's done that 3 times in the past 2 years....traded 3 players, along with cash, for 1 main player and a minor leaguer or two. Think about it. Pont #2: However, why are you guys so ignorant in the fact that KW was actually the mastermind behind the whole Colon deal? He did do it, along with some help. Just because he got some help doesn't mean he didn't do most of it. Point #1: I hadn't caught that and you did, good insight, thanks! Point #2: I am not saying KW was mastermind or not. I have no idea and a lot of contradictory reports out there. My earier point, not stated well, was just because one news report has JR crediting KW means nothing because of course JR will say that to keep his GM happy. However, that does not mean that I do not believe that KW was behind it. The Trib suggested KW was and I lean towards that but as I said, I really don't know and have heard too many different things. If you would like to suggest that the KW haters rejected out of hand any credit for what KW does good, I will agree. I have been a bit more on KWs side than most fans - which is to say, neutral - until the MB thing. But I don't consider a lot of people here ignorant, people just disagree on interpretation when reviewing the same set of facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted January 25, 2003 Author Share Posted January 25, 2003 Witesoxfan calling people ignorant because we are not giving KW full credit for is wrong. #1. Espn radio, Sporting news, Usa today, Chicago Tribune and Sun-Times have all expressed same story that Jerry not Kw pulled the strings. #2 P.Gammons reported it on ESPN Radio that Jerry talked to all involved and decided who for who and what for what. #3 After KW f***ED up the last 2 years Jerry is not letting him do the same bulls*** trades KW is always making #4 f*** KW he deserves nothing but to be FIRED today would not be soon enough. :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Witesoxfan calling people ignorant because we are not giving KW full credit for is wrong. #1. Espn radio, Sporting news, Usa today, Chicago Tribune and Sun-Times have all expressed same story that Jerry not Kw pulled the strings. #2 P.Gammons reported it on ESPN Radio that Jerry talked to all involved and decided who for who and what for what. #3 After KW f***ED up the last 2 years Jerry is not letting him do the same bulls*** trades KW is always making #4 f*** KW he deserves nothing but to be FIRED today would not be soon enough. :fyou The only legitimate point you brought up was #1....and I haven't seen those stories yet. Mind showing me a link so I can read them? #2 I know is bulls***....because Peter Gammons is full of s***....he knows very little to nothing about baseball. #3 and #4 are your opinion. Can you give me a source for your #1 point? I'd like to see it. Edit: cw....maybe their not ignorant and I just overreacted during my vent. Maybe they are just disagreeing with the interpretation of the same set of facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 #2 I know is bulls***....because Peter Gammons is full of s***....he knows very little to nothing about baseball. arnt you doing the same thing to peter gammons you are accusing us of doing to KW??... there were also stories out of the new york papers that said cashman and steinbrenner really helped move this deal along...so who really knows..all i know is its out of character for williams to make a deal like this...he is usually on the wrong end of these deals...then it comes up that he may have gotten help...then remember the deal is with montreal..a team basically owned by bud selig , reinsey's best friend in the whole world , and selig wants the friggen team contracted...dont you think there is enough smoke there to atleast check for a fire??? when guerrero ends up in new york and vidro in milwaukee will that just coincidence?? or will it be on the up and up like you feel this trade is???...baseball , the business side , stinks right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 I have said that KW probably did in fact get help along the way in the whole deal....but just because he didn't do it all by himself didn't mean he wasn't the main man in the deal. I wouldn't be surprised if JR, Selig, Steinbrenner, Cashman and Minaya all played major parts in it....but who's to say that KW's tainted ass mind wasn't behind all of it? Remember, this guy is so dirty that he traded a pitcher he knew was injured in Mike Sirotka for David Wells. It wouldn't surprise me. It is a good baseball move, but in the buisness world, it may have been a bad move. I'm not arguing against that. I don't think that this whole deal was orchestrated by Selig and Reinsdorf and Steinbrenner....KW did play a part in it. If he didn't, then why would he get limited sleep worrying about whether the deal got done or not(unless he was lying about that too)? I think KW did most of it, with some help along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 If you would like to suggest that the KW haters rejected out of hand any credit for what KW does good, I will agree. I have been a bit more on KWs side than most fans - which is to say, neutral - until the MB thing. But I don't consider a lot of people here ignorant, people just disagree on interpretation when reviewing the same set of facts. you really get me, you were a kw supporter, then all of a sudden b/c of the mb thing now you hate kw. yet when those including me, does not think the kw is a good gm and does not believe in his creditability, we just see things differently. what makes you view on any subject so much special only b/c as you said it affected mb? we have been saying that the kw screw up are a lot worse than what most people would see and some of his good trades are just dismiss this b/c it involves kw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 I have said that KW probably did in fact get help along the way in the whole deal....but just because he didn't do it all by himself didn't mean he wasn't the main man in the deal. I wouldn't be surprised if JR, Selig, Steinbrenner, Cashman and Minaya all played major parts in it....but who's to say that KW's tainted ass mind wasn't behind all of it? Remember, this guy is so dirty that he traded a pitcher he knew was injured in Mike Sirotka for David Wells. It wouldn't surprise me. It is a good baseball move, but in the buisness world, it may have been a bad move. I'm not arguing against that. I don't think that this whole deal was orchestrated by Selig and Reinsdorf and Steinbrenner....KW did play a part in it. If he didn't, then why would he get limited sleep worrying about whether the deal got done or not(unless he was lying about that too)? I think KW did most of it, with some help along the way. okay..my take then is similiar to yours...but we were talking about this in context to the story on soxnet where the author gave KW al lthe credit for the colon and making him out to be like a god of the GM's because of it...thats where the attacks came from... it wasnt so much we were ripping KW (WELL WE WERE ) but this guy brought it on with his failure to point out anything negative that KW has done.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 I think KW did most of it, with some help along the way. i will respect your opinion, but on espn an article said that george of the yanks started it. then i showed before where i caught kw in lies about the trade. including the BA linked where it was said that all he concertated on another trade. all that aside if he was behind the trrade or not. i am none too happy of being called ignortant, just b/c i do not have the same opinion of your or anywhen else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted January 26, 2003 Author Share Posted January 26, 2003 Witesoxfan I cannot make a comment talking about P.Gammons, but in the next sentence you tell us KW got little sleep nights before the trade. I hear something it's BS, you comment it is the gospel. How the hell do you know, you stay at KW's house that week? My initial comment was about Soxnet article not calling otherSox fans ignorant. As far as links it is been 2 weeks you will have to do the research and I thought opinions were what this website is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 I think KW did most of it, with some help along the way. i will respect your opinion, but on espn an article said that george of the yanks started it. then i showed before where i caught kw in lies about the trade. including the BA linked where it was said that all he concertated on another trade. all that aside if he was behind the trrade or not. i am none too happy of being called ignortant, just b/c i do not have the same opinion of your or anywhen else. LDF....George may have started it, but that doesn't mean that KW didn't do the main part of the deal....as I said, I think that KW did most of it with help along the way. Besides, ESPN is quite biased towards the east coast....I'm not surprised that they'd give a lot of credit to the Yankees in their article. KW has f***ed up quite a bit....but this is one that if you give most of the credit elsewhere that you are being misguided somehow, because KW did think of a lot of the deal. Soxfest....KW said in an article about the trade that he got very little sleep the few nights before the trade initially occurred...I'll try to locate the article for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Soxfest: Link "The last three nights, I probably have slept only two hours," Williams said Wednesday. "I've been pacing the halls of the house, worrying, trying to keep this deal together." If you want to read it for yourself, it is in the part called "Colon, Dr. Atkins and Jenny Craig" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 give him credit, what and how, do you want us to give him a Blow Job, sorry but that is for his wife and all his lackies. lol ldf... hes been f***ing us sox fans up the ass for the past couple of years....i wouldnt touch that thing with a ten foot handi wipe..........your right leave it for his wife.. i suppose shes the only one gulible enough to believe that he is doing something good......... :fyou kw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 so I take it HSC that you do not want KW to jump naked out of the cake at your next birthday party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 oh not only no but hell no.. well not unless i have an ak-47 in hand to cut him down with........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted January 26, 2003 Author Share Posted January 26, 2003 HSC Could not have said it better myself, f*** KW HELL YEAH He has been f***ing us up the ass since day 1 :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 actually I could never say "f*** KW" because the idea of actually coming into close physical contact with him turns my stomach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 actually I could never say "f*** KW" because the idea of actually coming into close physical contact with him turns my stomach. you get that nasty upset feeling too huh.......lol....... :fyou kw....but not me, i dont want to do it...... let someone else have those honors.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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