Sam Smith talks about the Sox.....a positive post

[sox-r-us]

'Cheap' Sox getting bum rap

 

By Sam Smith

 

Tribune pro basketball reporter

 

February 2, 2004, 10:25 PM CST

 

 

Because I don't want to stick to basketball. There, that answers the first nasty letter.

 

With the Bulls out of town and virtually out of mind, I went to SoxFest last weekend to see what all the fuss was about. The fussing, anyway.

 

Oh, that's right. Losing Tony Graffanino. OK, Bartolo Colon, Roberto Alomar and Carl Everett too. I'll admit it. I'm a closet White Sox fan. It seems in these heady Cubs times, it's where you find most Sox fans.

 

But I'm not that upset. Of course, I go to Bulls games. By comparison, the Sox look pretty darn good. But that's not the common perception these days. So I ventured into the belly of the angry whale—wail?—of Sox fans and heard this:

 

The Sox won't negotiate with Magglio Ordonez.

 

Well, not quite. He wants to become a free agent and test the market, sort of like Kobe Bryant in basketball. Nothing personal, he says, but no thanks to negotiations. I know no one's blaming the Lakers for Kobe's talk about leaving.

 

There also was all this angst about guys leaving:

 

Graffanino wanted more playing time. Would you make him a full-time starter?

 

Alomar bet he'd strike it big on the free-agent market and declined arbitration, preventing the Sox from negotiating with him until May.

 

Tom Gordon—raise your hand if you wanted him last year.

 

Everett drew criticism when he signed because Sox fans said he couldn't play center.

 

And Colon was only 15-13. Sure, you'd like to have him, but maybe at 30 pounds less.

 

There was fear about Willie Harris playing second base, that he was an unknown guy with little success. But it seems there was a lot of moaning last year about the Sox doing something stupid like that with a journeyman pitcher named Esteban Loaiza.

 

There was a lot of talk about being cheap, yet for what it's worth, the Sox do have the highest payroll in their division.

 

Oh, right, that big-market thing. I fast-break back to basketball on that one. Second teams in major markets invariably suffer and spend less. The New Jersey Nets tried, won two Eastern Conference titles but didn't draw, lost about $20 million a year and had to be sold. And now they'll be moved. If the Sox were sold, there's no guarantee they wouldn't be moved. Sometimes you'd better watch out what you wish for.

 

You could get an owner like the Dallas Mavericks' Mark Cuban, for instance, whose free spending has become a publicity mirage. He has been one of the few NBA owners not spending his annual salary-cap exception and has his players and staff near mutiny with his overbearing and boorish ways.

 

Bottomless money pit Paul Allen of the Portland Trail Blazers has ordered major financial cutbacks. The Boston Celtics were sold and are auctioning their highest-paid players. So are the Atlanta Hawks. The Lakers won't give Shaquille O'Neal an extension. The Pacers declined to keep All-Star Brad Miller because he cost too much. The Kings paid him, but had to drop several players and are now demanding a new arena.

 

And so it goes in sports these days.

 

I can point to occasions when the Sox have made mistakes. Frequently. But I don't really see where they haven't tried to win. Even back to the "White Flag" trade. That trade did lead to the 2000 division title. Sure, everyone wants more than a division title.

 

And shouldn't they have had that last season? They got Colon when the Yankees and Red Sox didn't. They pulled all sorts of strings for Alomar and Everett. Who knew they wouldn't be good enough? Even the bad Todd Ritchie deal. It wasn't done to save money, but to win then.

 

So they weren't right. At least they seemed to be trying. The Angels and Marlins showed you don't have to buy everyone. You just have to be a little smarter. Perhaps the Sox need to work on that.

 

Baseball fans, particularly Sox fans, should be most angry at the players association and Pate Philip. It's the union, contrary to the interests of the game, that allows the free-spending rules that favor the teams with the huge TV contracts, like the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs. Just keeping Alex Rodriguez from being traded should show who's baseball's Public Enemy No. 1.

 

And Philip, the former state Senate president from Wood Dale, refused to let the Sox build a stadium in the suburbs, where most of the fans now live. Everyone knows what it's like trying to get to U.S. Cellular Field on weeknights.

 

The Sox have seven of their nine starters back, and it wasn't until the Yankees started bringing up prospects that they began to win. The Sox say Harris, Joe Crede, Joe Borchard and Aaron Rowand are worth the look. Why not take one? New manager Ozzie Guillen seems eager and willing.

 

It was interesting to hear the angst and listen to the team's logic. What seemed clearest was the frustration of not winning while the Cubs did. The answer, always, is to buy someone. Gimme, gimme, gimme.

 

Just gimme pitchers and catchers in a couple of weeks. It doesn't look that bad.

[YASNY]

That was a good article. I think there has been way too much gnashing of teeth this off season. He made some very good points, and I'm glad to see them finally made in the media.

[DBAHO]

He's definitely rite on one thing blamin the union. Them and agents like Scott Boras are the problem with Baseball at the moment. Good point on 7 of the 9 starters comin back this year, that's a pretty good strike rate compared to otha teams I'd think.

[YASNY]

He's definitely rite on one thing blamin the union. Them and agents like Scott Boras are the problem with Baseball at the moment. Good point on 7 of the 9 starters comin back this year, that's a pretty good strike rate compared to otha teams I'd think.

And the two "starters" we lost, we only had for half the season.

[DBAHO]

And the two "starters" we lost, we only had for half the season.

I'm hopin for at least 40 to 45 wins out of Buerhle, Loaiza and Garland this year. I think that should be a given, if they continue to pitch well and Garland continues to improve. KW thinks Coop can make a starter out of Shoe, I say be very, very happy if we get 10 wins out of him this year. Any success we get out of the 5th starter should be considered a bonus, da bullpen will be da key to us winnin a lot of close games if guys like Wunsch and Marte continue to dominate.

[Pastime]

Yep, we have 7 of 9 starters back, which is great.

 

But our lineup isn't where most of the worry lies - it lies in our pitching staff, especially the starters. You know what you'll get from Buehrle - probably 17 or 18 wins. You sorta know what you'll get from Loaiza - probably 15-17 wins. You know what you'll get from Garland - probably 12-14 wins.

 

However, it's the other two rotation spots that are downright scary to think about. ::Shudder::

[slick03]

And the two "starters" we lost, we only had for half the season.

exactly

[aboz56]

Yep, we have 7 of 9 starters back, which is great. 

 

But our lineup isn't where most of the worry lies - it lies in our pitching staff, especially the starters.  You know what you'll get from Buehrle - probably 17 or 18 wins.  You sorta know what you'll get from Loaiza - probably 15-17 wins.  You know what you'll get from Garland - probably 12-14 wins. 

 

However, it's the other two rotation spots that are downright scary to think about.  ::Shudder::

I'm going to say Buehrle wins 20, Loaiza 15, Garland 15, Show 10 and from the 5th starter spot, Neal Cotts will win 8-10 games.

[YASNY]

I'm going to say Buehrle wins 20, Loaiza 15, Garland 15, Show 10 and from the 5th starter spot, Neal Cotts will win 8-10 games.

We are going to need 50 wins from our "big 3". Let's hope it works out that way.

[cwsox]

Oh, right, that big-market thing. I fast-break back to basketball on that one. Second teams in major markets invariably suffer and spend less. The New Jersey Nets tried, won two Eastern Conference titles but didn't draw, lost about $20 million a year and had to be sold. And now they'll be moved. If the Sox were sold, there's no guarantee they wouldn't be moved. Sometimes you'd better watch out what you wish for.

 

You could get an owner like the Dallas Mavericks' Mark Cuban, for instance, whose free spending has become a publicity mirage. He has been one of the few NBA owners not spending his annual salary-cap exception and has his players and staff near mutiny with his overbearing and boorish ways.

lots of excellent points in that article and I just wanted to highlight two of them.

[Goldmember]

completely agree with smith's article. great to see him finally come out of the closet.

 

Yep, we have 7 of 9 starters back, which is great.

 

But our lineup isn't where most of the worry lies - it lies in our pitching staff, especially the starters. You know what you'll get from Buehrle - probably 17 or 18 wins. You sorta know what you'll get from Loaiza - probably 15-17 wins. You know what you'll get from Garland - probably 12-14 wins.

 

However, it's the other two rotation spots that are downright scary to think about. ::Shudder::

also agree with pastime. but know that if it comes down to it kenny will bring in someone that can help us like he did last year with everett/alomar.

[YASNY]

lots of excellent points in that article and I just wanted to highlight two of them.

I'm not all shot in the ass with JR. That having been said, he hasn't moved us and he has attempted to lock the team into a lease for 2+ decades. However, I would love to see an owner come in that believes the Sox could be a profitable franchise if and when there is a tradition of excellence, as opposed to "competitiveness". I firmly believe it and I believe in Sox fans. If we had that opportunity to get behind a winner, a real winner, a team that makes the playoffs and other teams are afraid to meet in a short series, I believe you'd see a completely different definition tacked on to the term "Sox fan".

[cwsox]

I'm not all shot in the ass with JR.

now there is a phrase that I am almost afraid to ask what it means... but I have not heard it before - is it good or bad?

[southsideirish]

'Cheap' Sox getting bum rap

 

By Sam Smith

 

Tribune pro basketball reporter

 

February 2, 2004, 10:25 PM CST

 

 

Because I don't want to stick to basketball. There, that answers the first nasty letter.

 

With the Bulls out of town and virtually out of mind, I went to SoxFest last weekend to see what all the fuss was about. The fussing, anyway.

 

Oh, that's right. Losing Tony Graffanino. OK, Bartolo Colon, Roberto Alomar and Carl Everett too. I'll admit it. I'm a closet White Sox fan. It seems in these heady Cubs times, it's where you find most Sox fans.

 

But I'm not that upset. Of course, I go to Bulls games. By comparison, the Sox look pretty darn good. But that's not the common perception these days. So I ventured into the belly of the angry whale—wail?—of Sox fans and heard this:

 

The Sox won't negotiate with Magglio Ordonez.

 

Well, not quite. He wants to become a free agent and test the market, sort of like Kobe Bryant in basketball. Nothing personal, he says, but no thanks to negotiations. I know no one's blaming the Lakers for Kobe's talk about leaving.

 

There also was all this angst about guys leaving:

 

Graffanino wanted more playing time. Would you make him a full-time starter?

 

Alomar bet he'd strike it big on the free-agent market and declined arbitration, preventing the Sox from negotiating with him until May.

 

Tom Gordon—raise your hand if you wanted him last year.

 

Everett drew criticism when he signed because Sox fans said he couldn't play center.

 

And Colon was only 15-13. Sure, you'd like to have him, but maybe at 30 pounds less.

 

There was fear about Willie Harris playing second base, that he was an unknown guy with little success. But it seems there was a lot of moaning last year about the Sox doing something stupid like that with a journeyman pitcher named Esteban Loaiza.

 

There was a lot of talk about being cheap, yet for what it's worth, the Sox do have the highest payroll in their division.

 

Oh, right, that big-market thing. I fast-break back to basketball on that one. Second teams in major markets invariably suffer and spend less. The New Jersey Nets tried, won two Eastern Conference titles but didn't draw, lost about $20 million a year and had to be sold. And now they'll be moved. If the Sox were sold, there's no guarantee they wouldn't be moved. Sometimes you'd better watch out what you wish for.

 

You could get an owner like the Dallas Mavericks' Mark Cuban, for instance, whose free spending has become a publicity mirage. He has been one of the few NBA owners not spending his annual salary-cap exception and has his players and staff near mutiny with his overbearing and boorish ways.

 

Bottomless money pit Paul Allen of the Portland Trail Blazers has ordered major financial cutbacks. The Boston Celtics were sold and are auctioning their highest-paid players. So are the Atlanta Hawks. The Lakers won't give Shaquille O'Neal an extension. The Pacers declined to keep All-Star Brad Miller because he cost too much. The Kings paid him, but had to drop several players and are now demanding a new arena.

 

And so it goes in sports these days.

 

I can point to occasions when the Sox have made mistakes. Frequently. But I don't really see where they haven't tried to win. Even back to the "White Flag" trade. That trade did lead to the 2000 division title. Sure, everyone wants more than a division title.

 

And shouldn't they have had that last season? They got Colon when the Yankees and Red Sox didn't. They pulled all sorts of strings for Alomar and Everett. Who knew they wouldn't be good enough? Even the bad Todd Ritchie deal. It wasn't done to save money, but to win then.

 

So they weren't right. At least they seemed to be trying. The Angels and Marlins showed you don't have to buy everyone. You just have to be a little smarter. Perhaps the Sox need to work on that.

 

Baseball fans, particularly Sox fans, should be most angry at the players association and Pate Philip. It's the union, contrary to the interests of the game, that allows the free-spending rules that favor the teams with the huge TV contracts, like the Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs. Just keeping Alex Rodriguez from being traded should show who's baseball's Public Enemy No. 1.

 

And Philip, the former state Senate president from Wood Dale, refused to let the Sox build a stadium in the suburbs, where most of the fans now live. Everyone knows what it's like trying to get to U.S. Cellular Field on weeknights.

 

The Sox have seven of their nine starters back, and it wasn't until the Yankees started bringing up prospects that they began to win. The Sox say Harris, Joe Crede, Joe Borchard and Aaron Rowand are worth the look. Why not take one? New manager Ozzie Guillen seems eager and willing.

 

It was interesting to hear the angst and listen to the team's logic. What seemed clearest was the frustration of not winning while the Cubs did. The answer, always, is to buy someone. Gimme, gimme, gimme.

 

Just gimme pitchers and catchers in a couple of weeks. It doesn't look that bad.

Awesome article! Great thread! I loved it sox-r-us!! Finally a positive outlook from the media.

[greasywheels121]

That's an awesome article, why's this guy write about basketball? I think Buerhle will be the ace of the staff this year, Esty will drop off a bit. I really feel this is the year Garland steps up though, 16 wins.

[witesoxfan]

There is a point he brings up, something along the lines of "The Sox aren't cheap, in fact, they have the highest payroll in their division."

 

While that is true, it is sort of a twisted truth. Sure we do, but that's only like $60 mill, while the average payroll in the AL East is about $80-$90 mill(which is kind of a misleading figure), and their 4th highest, the Blue Jays, has got to be like $55-65 mill, if not more(because I know they have Delgado on for about $18 mill and they'll have Halladay on for about $8-9 mill this year as well). The AL West has 3 teams at over $85 mill and then the exception is the A's, who have a great front office and 3 great, young starters in their first 6 years in the league. I would venture to guess that the White Sox have about the average payroll, though that is not saying much.

 

However, I personally don't want JR to open up the checkbook. I think what he needs to do is spend that $60 million more wisely....don't give Konerko $8 mill a year when he deserves maybe $5-6 after the year he had(and that year where he hit .304 27 104, including about .330 20 60 at the All-Star break). Don't give Koch $10 mill after he has not even thrown one pitch in a White Sox uniform(in fact, don't even make that move at all....Foulke is off the books quicker then anyways). Don't pick up Jose's $5 mill option after he hits .240 25 70, because if you hit .240, you have to hit 35-40 homers that same year to earn $5 mill the next year. I personally have nothing against backloaded contracts, so long as you plan them correctly that someone's biggest pay check will come in a year where there are other low paychecks being sent. Hell, sometimes backloaded deals are the best way to go, and then if you can, trade them at the end of it(like how I think we should have traded Maggs this past offseason).

 

Anyways, rant off. It is a decent article though, especially for a basketball writer. Atleast Smith won't contradict himself like Mariotti's dumbass will.

[HoosierSox]

Finally an optimistic article about the Sox. I am sick of this crap Like Oh we have a rookie manager and Willie Harris and Rowand cant get it done and we have no 4th or 5th starter. Lets just wait until spring training before we say we dont have a 4th or 5th starter or Harris and Rowand cant play. Who knows you may be pleasantly surprised.

[Dick Allen]

Just a note, please remember I am a JR backer. Sam Smith is a friend of Jerry Reinsdorf.

[C.Rector]

Don't give Koch $10 mill after he has not even thrown one pitch in a White Sox uniform(in fact, don't even make that move at all....Foulke is off the books quicker then anyways).  Don't pick up Jose's $5 mill option after he hits .240 25 70,

2 things:

 

Koch is being paid 6.37 Mil not 10 Mil.

 

Shortstop is basically a defensive position, so the relevant stats for judging Valentin's performance are fielding, not batting.

[witesoxfan]

2 things:

 

Koch is being paid 6.37 Mil not 10 Mil.

 

Shortstop is basically a defensive position, so the relevant stats for judging Valentin's performance are fielding, not batting.

First of all, the contract Koch signed was 2-years at about $10 mill(it was actually a little more then $10 mill...something around $10.125 mill or somewhere around that neighborhood)

 

Second of all, Jose's option was not picked up because of defensive relevance. The guy makes 20 errors a year. The only way a SS's defense is worth $5 mill is if either he is getting $25 mill a year and you are only paying him $20 mill a year to hit, or he is an unbelievably gifted defensive SS with some offensive presence to go with. Jose is neither, therefore, you base his payroll on his all-around game, and his all-around game is not worth $5 mill.

[YASNY]

now there is a phrase that I am almost afraid to ask what it means...  but I have not heard it before - is it good or bad?

Just a southern expression I've picked up. It means I'm not very happy with the way JR has done some things. Sorry about the confusion.

[YASNY]

First of all, the contract Koch signed was 2-years at about $10 mill(it was actually a little more then $10 mill...something around $10.125 mill or somewhere around that neighborhood)

 

Second of all, Jose's option was not picked up because of defensive relevance.  The guy makes 20 errors a year.  The only way a SS's defense is worth $5 mill is if either he is getting $25 mill a year and you are only paying him $20 mill a year to hit, or he is an unbelievably gifted defensive SS with some offensive presence to go with.  Jose is neither, therefore, you base his payroll on his all-around game, and his all-around game is not worth $5 mill.

I vehemently disagree with that statement. You underrate Jose in all areas, defensively, offensively and his contributions to the team as a team. That is $5 million well spent.

 

I know I'm gonna get hammered for this but I don't care. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[Steff]

Just a note, please remember I am a JR backer. Sam Smith is a  friend of Jerry Reinsdorf.

IIRC, didn't he write an article about being Jerry's guest at the AS Game?

[beebeerichards]

Just a note, please remember I am a JR backer. Sam Smith is a  friend of Jerry Reinsdorf.

Some friend, he pretty much hammered the Bulls (deservedly so) in the article.

[witesoxfan]

I vehemently disagree with that statement.  You underrate Jose in all areas, defensively, offensively and his contributions to the team as a team.  That is $5 million well spent.

 

I know I'm gonna get hammered for this but I don't care.  That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

I'm glad we kept him, but I just don't think he is worth $5 mill. $3-4 mill, not $5.

 

He is good in the clutch though, gotta like that.